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Original Ending (Not 'Dark Energy') / Current Ending


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#26
Necrotron

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Himmelstor wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Yeah, blowing up the Mass Relays and Joker leaving the fight are the two things I have the most problems with.

These do bother me, but quite honestly in the finished product there is no excuse for the empirically incorrect justification the Catalyst had.

The entire ending, the first (and second, because I'm a fool and tried a different choice thinking there might be significant differences) time I played through had me muttering no under my breath over and over.

EDIT: That, and if it weren't for the promise of future DLC so uncaringly shoved in, it almost felt like they were throwing a Molotov cocktail at the universe so painstakingly created and running.


That is how the ending felt to me.  We're done with this universe, so now we can blow it all to shreds and move on.

Having to kill EDI and also Legion for the destroy ending in which Shepard shows he may be alive also really sat wrong with me, especially after the entire game focused heavily on EDI and her development into a true human entity.

#27
Akael_Bayn

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_Flipp_ wrote...

But what I am not okay with is that the last 10 minutes are not quite logic.
Where does Anderson come from? How the fu** did TIM get there? Why does joker bail out? How could he pick up my squad? And at last, I want to have at least some idea how all the people I saved during 100hours of gaming are doing and not just see 3 of them walking out of a crashed normandy..


Exactly.  Unexpected is fine.  Unpleasant is fine.  Nonsensical... not so fine.

#28
_Flipp_

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Actually was bothers me most was the people walking out of the normandy.
I mean on the very last mission I assume many people take there favourite characters and their love interest ( in my case Liara as LI and garrus ).
So after the scene where I ran down that hill and Harbingers beam hit I was like " OMG WHEN LIARA DID NOT SURVIVE THIS I WILL LOOSE IT - AND GARRUS, MY FRIEND "
I was really concerned about them, all the time during the ending. And I suppose many people felt this way too.

Now I dont want to deny that I felt kinda relieved seeing Liara walk out of the Normandy but hey - I had to assume that my love interest was dead...and all I get is seeing her walk out of a crashed ship . Hell I would at least have a little idea how my love did survive this hell...?!

#29
v0rt3x22

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_Flipp_ wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

It's pretty obvious that things changed from the script and it generally looks like it was done to accommodate future plans.


Whats your thought on those "future plans" ? I mean if it is some kind of DLC or Add-On it needs to be shephard related - but the ending does not leave much room for that!


It does - if you compare the script ending to the current ending - all the hints that people are interpreting as the indoctrination - are all completely new - and a means to continue.

#30
Kilshrek

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

It seems I made a mistake about the relays - its a bit sketchy.

It looks like in the destruction ending - the relays were supposed to be destroyed - but it makes no refernce for the synthesis ending.

For the control ending - it says that the cycle will just continue (as you gain control of the reapers) - so I'm assuming in that scenario the relays survive.


The Relays always blow up no matter what.

Starkid says as much, when you use the power of the crucible it'll destroy all the mass relays.

#31
v0rt3x22

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Kilshrek wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

It seems I made a mistake about the relays - its a bit sketchy.

It looks like in the destruction ending - the relays were supposed to be destroyed - but it makes no refernce for the synthesis ending.

For the control ending - it says that the cycle will just continue (as you gain control of the reapers) - so I'm assuming in that scenario the relays survive.


The Relays always blow up no matter what.

Starkid says as much, when you use the power of the crucible it'll destroy all the mass relays.


I was refering to the script though - not the ending thats in-game.

#32
Auztin

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All I read about the endings is that they're will be a Mass Effect 4 with Shepard.I think 4 will be Shepard's last story because of the scene after credits.The kid asks for another shepard story.The old guy says ok 1 more.I hate the endings just as much as everyone else but Bioware has something up thier sleeve.I think they expected this.I know this supposed to be a Shepard trilogy.But remember what they did to this one.At first it would be new character if Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2 or Shepard if he survived Mass Effect 2.Instead,they changed it to Shepard had to survive in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Auztinito, 15 mars 2012 - 12:09 .


#33
_Flipp_

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Auztinito wrote...

All I read about the endings is that they're will be a Mass Effect 4 with Shepard.I think 4 will be Shepard's last story because of the scene after credits.The kid asks for another shepard story.The old guy says ok 1 more.I hate the endings just as much as everyone else but Bioware has something up thier sleeve.I think they expected this.I know this supposed to be a Shepard trilogy.But remember what they did to this one.At first it would be new character if Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2 or Shepard if he survived Mass Effect 2.Instead,they changed it to Shepard had to survive in Mass Effect 2.


Well, what should a fourth part be about? Saving Joker on some random jungle planet from wild apes? If they really did this to prepare for a Mass Effect 4 I'm gonna hate them. Shepard and all others deserve a final ending and not to be drawn into an infiinte loop of stupid sequels...

#34
Auztin

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

All I read about the endings is that they're will be a Mass Effect 4 with Shepard.I think 4 will be Shepard's last story because of the scene after credits.The kid asks for another shepard story.The old guy says ok 1 more.I hate the endings just as much as everyone else but Bioware has something up thier sleeve.I think they expected this.I know this supposed to be a Shepard trilogy.But remember what they did to this one.At first it would be new character if Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2 or Shepard if he survived Mass Effect 2.Instead,they changed it to Shepard had to survive in Mass Effect 2.


Well, what should a fourth part be about? Saving Joker on some random jungle planet from wild apes? If they really did this to prepare for a Mass Effect 4 I'm gonna hate them. Shepard and all others deserve a final ending and not to be drawn into an infiinte loop of stupid sequels...

I don't know.But that's what I got out of it.I don't know what they have planned.

#35
_Flipp_

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Well there is still the hope that something big is coming ( and not in form of ME4 ), because of all the cryptic Tweets as well as the fact that it ( afaik ) hasnt been released everywhere yet..

#36
Drake-Shepard

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Dormitorius wrote...
The reason I think they gave us a blanket ending was because ultimately the writers gave up. Can you imagine writing how 1,000s of possible choices will affect the ending? If they had some more time and pulled it off though... I would have to applaud them on achieving it. That final weaving of plot threads into the ending would be a literary work of art.


I do not expect them to give me so many and fancy different outcomes.
I do not expect them to give me a nice , pink , fluffy bunny , everyone is happy outcome
I do not expect them to even reflect all my choices in the outcome.
Hell I am even okay with the fact that none of my decisions mattered and I have to make some kind of ultimate decision in the end.

But what I am not okay with is that the last 10 minutes are not quite logic.
Where does Anderson come from? How the fu** did TIM get there? Why does joker bail out? How could he pick up my squad? And at last, I want to have at least some idea how all the people I saved during 100hours of gaming are doing and not just see 3 of them walking out of a crashed normandy..


Im on the same page. I am completely fine with this ending that is sad.

You havn't made choices throughtout the series so you have some more bargaining power when you chat to astrochild. (Although how you help EDI evolve and deal with geth could) You made them so you can get there. You were going to end up there anyway (if successful), but its your journey and choices that got you there. In a way its simple yet brilliant, that all your tough choices mean nothing at the final hurdle. Puts it into perspective.

But it should matter a bit...come on if you mess up every decision they should not let you complete operation crucible into citadel. Or is that what they have done?

I was happy when they announced mulitplayer because it meant to me that they would be very harsh on you. (not enough military strengh because of decisons - means you can;t get to that final stage). But wait theres muliplayer so people can give themselves a boost (a lil get out of free jail card so they can enjoy the ending). At least then we would have a sense of purpose to being a completionist/ making correct choices at those tough places. (THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME)

But what do we get instead....high score means shepard twitches his arm at the end? high score means astro child gives you another choice/or destroying the collector base = another choice.... why? how? Low score means one of the energy wave kills life on earth aswell?! how does effective military strength affect that.


in relation to the ending scenes, i can try to find reasons for it that may or may not be wrong;

TIM gets a bit of reaper control power and can control the reaper minions in his vicinity so can just calmly walk up to the beam from a different angle while your doing dramatic explosions. But if he can control reaper minions....and shepard, does that mean reapers can control you? maybe theres a different firewall in shepard then to a husk and the reapers have not realised they can bypass it. hmmm

I think when the relays were destroyed ...it wasn't the same explosion as when you smash an asteroid into it. The catalyst used the relay network to send its energy wave (whichever colour you selected) all over the galaxy. The ripple effect you are seeing in the map view is not the size of the explosion but the influence of the catalyst doing its job and then destroying the relay in a much much smaller explosion,
Otherwise what would be the point in making the choice if everyone dies.


I don't think joker is riding the relay....when the wave comes out the best pilot in the galaxy goes into FTL to escape it. He somehow ends up riding the energy wave..giving him a lil push...to a diiferent system. And lands on a planet...which has the same probability as winning the lottery 1000 times.

why does every relay killing shockwave have to be some sort of giant emp for ships and the normandy. That means the entire army of the galaxy is dead above earth. But I guess that is just a sad ending,

The scene of your crew leaving the crashed normandy could be a metaphor of you saving your loved ones and preserving life

I just looked again at the title of the group. what i really want is the original ending...dark matter? And explained. Whatever it is. The true vision of this project. And the effective military strength which is based on my choices, actually making a difference if i get there so it feels worthwhile.

#37
_Flipp_

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I don't think joker is riding the relay....when the wave comes out the best pilot in the galaxy goes into FTL to escape it. He somehow ends up riding the energy wave..giving him a lil push...to a diiferent system. And lands on a planet...which has the same probability as winning the lottery 1000 times.


Na I also didn't think he was riding the relay. But I'm just saying why did he escape at all? I mean come on, now starting with " the squadmates walking out was metaphorical " is just bogus. If youre right with this assumption that means we don't even get the slightest hint what happened to them.
And that joker really saved them? I mean how? Joker was engaging reaper ships with sword - he must have descended to earth, right throu reaper forces, land , get the crew on board ( on a battlefield where harbinger is unleashing hell ) and then get the hell out.
And when should all that happened? I mean the battle was still goin on ( even when you are struggling to make your decision with starchild ) - so until then, no need for joker to retreat, unless hes a coward ( and he aint one! )

And besides - why was only the normandy affected by that shockwave? Or did it kill the whole fleet in the Sol System? And why didn't a shockwave which even "followed" the normandy in FTL not impact on earth?

#38
Drake-Shepard

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_Flipp_ wrote...

I don't think joker is riding the relay....when the wave comes out the best pilot in the galaxy goes into FTL to escape it. He somehow ends up riding the energy wave..giving him a lil push...to a diiferent system. And lands on a planet...which has the same probability as winning the lottery 1000 times.


Na I also didn't think he was riding the relay. But I'm just saying why did he escape at all? I mean come on, now starting with " the squadmates walking out was metaphorical " is just bogus. If youre right with this assumption that means we don't even get the slightest hint what happened to them.
And that joker really saved them? I mean how? Joker was engaging reaper ships with sword - he must have descended to earth, right throu reaper forces, land , get the crew on board ( on a battlefield where harbinger is unleashing hell ) and then get the hell out.
And when should all that happened? I mean the battle was still goin on ( even when you are struggling to make your decision with starchild ) - so until then, no need for joker to retreat, unless hes a coward ( and he aint one! )

And besides - why was only the normandy affected by that shockwave? Or did it kill the whole fleet in the Sol System? And why didn't a shockwave which even "followed" the normandy in FTL not impact on earth?



I agree, i was just trying my bestest to make sense of it.
Maybe it was just to have a dramatic ending. Every ending has the normandy pulling off some michael bay manouvers and explosions.

Look how much we are discussing this...was planned by bioware. A dlc is on the way and i will probably buy it. But if they promise closure and not deliver again......

#39
v0rt3x22

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Auztinito wrote...

All I read about the endings is that they're will be a Mass Effect 4 with Shepard.I think 4 will be Shepard's last story because of the scene after credits.The kid asks for another shepard story.The old guy says ok 1 more.I hate the endings just as much as everyone else but Bioware has something up thier sleeve.I think they expected this.I know this supposed to be a Shepard trilogy.But remember what they did to this one.At first it would be new character if Shepard dies in Mass Effect 2 or Shepard if he survived Mass Effect 2.Instead,they changed it to Shepard had to survive in Mass Effect 2.


You know I feel incredibly slow to realize this - because I was so focused on the fact that the kid calls him 'The Shepard' (see: http://social.biowar...5/index/9842086) - but (for whatever reason, and I feel stupid) - I didn't realize that they are hinting at another story with John Shepard - which could ultimately be ME4.

#40
v0rt3x22

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Well there is still the hope that something big is coming ( and not in form of ME4 ), because of all the cryptic Tweets as well as the fact that it ( afaik ) hasnt been released everywhere yet..


agreed.

#41
_Flipp_

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Look how much we are discussing this...was planned by bioware. A dlc is on the way and i will probably buy it. But if they promise closure and not deliver again......


Yeah it's actually impressive how immense the feedback is - hell there is even a donation which already collected over 40.000 dollars. It's just amazing.

I mean if I think about it, even without a proper DLC, this will be one of the most memorized video game endings ever.

Still if they really got something big coming ( which I truly believe, because of all the hitns ) they will write history... If they had all this planned well then..bravo Bioware...bravo... but we will se about that

#42
v0rt3x22

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Well like I said before - I used to hate the ending - but then I started looking for clues and got interested in the indoc theory - and I mean - the clues are there. :-)

Especially from OP - if you look at all the content that wasn't in the script back in November - it's exactly the sort of content that is now being discussed as possible hints for more.

So yea - they def. planned this.

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 15 mars 2012 - 01:02 .


#43
_Flipp_

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Well I am with you there. Another thought just crossed my mind:

What ( at first ) pissed me off after finishig, was the fact that I apparently needed to improve my Galactic Readiness (GR) to get the best ending. ( I had 50% GR and an EMS of 3.500 and I did all sidequests and did search like 80% of the galaxy for assets ) . Now I don't have an Iphone or Ipad , neither do I want to play ME3 online... and my EMS bar was maxed out, so I went for it.

Now let's say if u really put effort into it you can get like 3.500 ( maybe up to 4.000 ) of EMS at 50%. That means you can't reach best end ( shepard taking a breath ) without that online cr**.

Imo that would be unfair...and like I said I was pissed at first...but then... what if our explanations like the "indoc theory" are true? Maybe the ( final ) outcome does depend on a lower classification of EMS? ( like 1k, 2k, 3k 3.5k ) And those extra points the online gamers have just gave them the hint with that last scene?

Just want to say, maybe those "extra points" just gave the people this extra hint, which doesn't mean they are in another situation like ppl like me which didn't see shepard take the breath..

#44
Drake-Shepard

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Well I am with you there. Another thought just crossed my mind:

What ( at first ) pissed me off after finishig, was the fact that I apparently needed to improve my Galactic Readiness (GR) to get the best ending. ( I had 50% GR and an EMS of 3.500 and I did all sidequests and did search like 80% of the galaxy for assets ) . Now I don't have an Iphone or Ipad , neither do I want to play ME3 online... and my EMS bar was maxed out, so I went for it.

Now let's say if u really put effort into it you can get like 3.500 ( maybe up to 4.000 ) of EMS at 50%. That means you can't reach best end ( shepard taking a breath ) without that online cr**.

Imo that would be unfair...and like I said I was pissed at first...but then... what if our explanations like the "indoc theory" are true? Maybe the ( final ) outcome does depend on a lower classification of EMS? ( like 1k, 2k, 3k 3.5k ) And those extra points the online gamers have just gave them the hint with that last scene?

Just want to say, maybe those "extra points" just gave the people this extra hint, which doesn't mean they are in another situation like ppl like me which didn't see shepard take the breath..


yeah you could be right.

I was annoyed at how you point score effects if you live or die or if earth is destroyed in that ball of fire that was just meant for synthetics or not... it makes no sense how the effectiveness of your army effects the explosion.

But they were probably easter eggs. some meaningful and some meaningless.

ps.
edit.

I take back most of my moaning. i now love the ending. it comes together...the problems with the geth from me1, sovereign explanation, previous races trying to find solutions- crucible.
bad ending is cool. my mass relay  universe gone. deep. but cycle stopped. which makes me wonder if this was the original ending and not the dark matter stuff.

just a case of unanswered questions i am sure they will answer.
All the assets points crap ended up being easter egg solutions at the end. All they had to do was not let you reach the end scene without the military points and then your decisions seem more meaningful.

And a summary of  the races left and what they think of your methods but this would be hard to do after the ending choice without giving away what will make their future content

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 15 mars 2012 - 01:48 .


#45
_Flipp_

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Well this still leaves the ( already mentioned ) plotholes at the end...

#46
dfstone

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Dormitorius wrote...
The reason I think they gave us a blanket ending was because ultimately the writers gave up. Can you imagine writing how 1,000s of possible choices will affect the ending? If they had some more time and pulled it off though... I would have to applaud them on achieving it. That final weaving of plot threads into the ending would be a literary work of art.


I do not expect them to give me so many and fancy different outcomes.
I do not expect them to give me a nice , pink , fluffy bunny , everyone is happy outcome
I do not expect them to even reflect all my choices in the outcome.
Hell I am even okay with the fact that none of my decisions mattered and I have to make some kind of ultimate decision in the end.

But what I am not okay with is that the last 10 minutes are not quite logic.
Where does Anderson come from? How the fu** did TIM get there? Why does joker bail out? How could he pick up my squad? And at last, I want to have at least some idea how all the people I saved during 100hours of gaming are doing and not just see 3 of them walking out of a crashed normandy..


Unless the end was a hallucination and the Catalyst was trying to trick Shepherd.  In the audio when you are running up to the laser beam in London, Anderson does say over the radio that no one made it.  So how then does he suddenly appear on the Citadel?  And the screen gets this dark haze around the edges...like you are dreaming.  

I bet what happened was Catalyst is trying to indoctrinate you and the option that indoctrinates you is the most obvious choice, the synergy option. 

#47
_Flipp_

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dfstone wrote...

Unless the end was a hallucination and the Catalyst was trying to trick Shepherd.  In the audio when you are running up to the laser beam in London, Anderson does say over the radio that no one made it.  So how then does he suddenly appear on the Citadel?  And the screen gets this dark haze around the edges...like you are dreaming.  

I bet what happened was Catalyst is trying to indoctrinate you and the option that indoctrinates you is the most obvious choice, the synergy option. 


Well this is exactly what we are all hoping for...and that there will be a DLC which will follow this plot...

In fact, if there will be any Single Player DLC coming it has to be something like this - see this thread social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9984389/1#9987490

#48
Drake-Shepard

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_Flipp_ wrote...

Well this still leaves the ( already mentioned ) plotholes at the end...


I will go out on a limb and say there are no plotholes....

I would say some stuff we have misinterpreted and most other stuff is just ridiculously poorly explained or left out ...either on purpose or by accident

other stuff would be easily explained by mass effect science we don't know about lol


..or the indoctrination theory 

or maybe i'm indoctrinated

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 15 mars 2012 - 02:06 .


#49
v0rt3x22

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Drake-Shepard wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

Well this still leaves the ( already mentioned ) plotholes at the end...


I will go out on a limb and say there are no plotholes....

I would say some stuff we have misinterpreted and most other stuff is just ridiculously poorly explained or left out ...either on purpose or by accident

other stuff would be easily explained by mass effect science we don't know about lol


..or the indoctrination theory 

or maybe i'm indoctrinated


I agree and its why I think its ridiculous to bash BioWare.

They know what they're doing.

Doesn't mean you're still entitled to your opinion though.

#50
Drake-Shepard

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

Well this still leaves the ( already mentioned ) plotholes at the end...


I will go out on a limb and say there are no plotholes....

I would say some stuff we have misinterpreted and most other stuff is just ridiculously poorly explained or left out ...either on purpose or by accident

other stuff would be easily explained by mass effect science we don't know about lol


..or the indoctrination theory 

or maybe i'm indoctrinated


I agree and its why I think its ridiculous to bash BioWare.

They know what they're doing.

Doesn't mean you're still entitled to your opinion though.


I have no experience with DA etc. But they have not gone wrong on mass effect series up to this point. So i will keep faith.

It's just worrying when you have a 'leaked' script and then you hear they changed the ending.
Makes you wonder if it was a quick patch up job making a new ending that fits in with previous games but at a cost of plotholes and most importantly deviating from their first vision (if there was one)

fingers crossed. My favourite franchise since metal gear solid.