67 réponses à ce sujet

[vigna]

If I'm not mistaken Dark enrgy isn't in that script. Dark energy is what Drew said the original final game had in it--as something the Reapers feared. Drew also backs up the Mass Relay part of the plot by specifically mentioning it.

[_Flipp_]

They know what they're doing.

This is exactly why I think there is still a bit more to come. I mean bioware didn't let us down like 95% out of the time in Mass Effect. And now this? I mean, even if I dont regard the story it self there are so many things .. :

For example the Human Textures at the catalyst. Or the Kaidan and Ashley textures when running to the beam. I mean seriously  - on the highpoint of the story - everything comes down to this - I doubt just use some random textures there without any thoughts behind that...

[JasonTan87]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

I have no experience with DA etc. But they have not gone wrong on mass effect series up to this point. So i will keep faith.

It's just worrying when you have a 'leaked' script and then you hear they changed the ending.
Makes you wonder if it was a quick patch up job making a new ending that fits in with previous games but at a cost of plotholes and most importantly deviating from their first vision (if there was one)

fingers crossed. My favourite franchise since metal gear solid.

You reminded me of MGS4. Now THAT's a real send-off for a hero.

[v0rt3x22]

vigna wrote...

If I'm not mistaken Dark enrgy isn't in that script. Dark energy is what Drew said the original final game had in it--as something the Reapers feared. Drew also backs up the Mass Relay part of the plot by specifically mentioning it.

I know that - that's what the title says of OP as well: It's NOT the Dark Energy one.

[ImpudentInfidel]

The ending from the leaked script is here: http://social.biowar...index/10214299/

[Reiella]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

If you think about the fact that the Catalyst says it was CREATED (by someone else) - the following assumption can be made:

From Final Hours can take that a lot of the additional exposition was cut to leave more up to the audience.  Course folks lept to the answer that it means we are facing zombie apocalypse now [Mass Effect :Left 4 Dead would be awesome].

[ReD BaKen9]

I do hope they change the ending

[Blackmind1]

Sunnyhat1 wrote...

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Yeah well they screwed us over big time with the "changes" keeping the mass relays would have made me a happy puppy so that my normandy crew survived landed back on earth and not some random uncharted world. Would have also given me some hope for my Sheploo to be back with Ash ... god damn it they really took us for fools.

My thoughts exactly. Being forced to detroy the mass relays is just cruel.. besides the logic error what bugs me the most.

The Mass Relays are made of Reaper tech, and the pulse fired out of them was incredibly powerful. You want to get rid of The Reapers? You need to get rid of their technology. You can't have your cake and eat it too (I hate that expression).

I don't get what's so hard to understand.

[Blackmind1]

Jealous Beauty wrote...

That's why dark energy makes more sense to me.

It makes even MORE sense if it's revealed that the reapers are actually at war with another ancient, super-advanced species that's been using dark energy to attack our galaxy for millions of years.  It's very similar to something from the Xeelee Sequence.

Hello ME4 and reaper-tech-enhanced Normandy. :-)

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Dark Energy was planned as a main plot point during the year of writing/lorecrafting they set back before ME1 had even begun initial development. It was scrapped during this phase. It was never actually a thing, people assume it was because of the Dark Energy "foreshadowing" in ME2 and such, but it's way more likely that they were just missions they thought would be cool to keep in, instead of scrapping.

I wouldn't pay Dark Energy any more mind than you should be doing, which is none at all.

[digby69]

vigna wrote...

If I'm not mistaken Dark enrgy isn't in that script. Dark energy is what Drew said the original final game had in it--as something the Reapers feared. Drew also backs up the Mass Relay part of the plot by specifically mentioning it.

This is correct, Drew's story arc was about dark energy and how it was destroying the galaxy. The reapers were an very very anicent civ's last ditch attemp to prevent this AND THEY FAILED, so they come back every 50k years and harvest an adv. civ into a new reaper but only ever succeed in delaying the dark energy. This this theme was contuied through me1 and me2. The conculsion of me3 was to be as follows.

Harby would explain all this to shep and tell him that due to humans divers dna (or something) then the human reaper would truely be able to stop dark energy and save the galaxy and that the end was near there was only about 200yrs left before the end of the galaxy. So shep has a choice.

1. join the reapers and let then harvest humanity an d stop dark energy

2. destroy the reapers and hope that the galaxy will come together and find its own solution.

For some reason Marc Walter / BW changed all this in ME3

[FyreSyder]

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Yeah, blowing up the Mass Relays and Joker leaving the fight are the two things I have the most problems with.

The 2 things I have the most problem with is the Star Child and the three 'choices'.

[Acidrain92]

FyreSyder wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Yeah, blowing up the Mass Relays and Joker leaving the fight are the two things I have the most problems with.

The 2 things I have the most problem with is the Star Child and the three 'choices'.

and this is why not all of us will get the ending DLC that we want.

Blackmind1 wrote...

Sunnyhat1 wrote...

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Yeah well they screwed us over big time with the "changes" keeping the mass relays would have made me a happy puppy so that my normandy crew survived landed back on earth and not some random uncharted world. Would have also given me some hope for my Sheploo to be back with Ash ... god damn it they really took us for fools.

My thoughts exactly. Being forced to detroy the mass relays is just cruel.. besides the logic error what bugs me the most.

The Mass Relays are made of Reaper tech, and the pulse fired out of them was incredibly powerful. You want to get rid of The Reapers? You need to get rid of their technology. You can't have your cake and eat it too (I hate that expression).

I don't get what's so hard to understand.

agreed. The Mass Relays should be destroyed. Everybody crying foul is just being unreasonable. You cant destroy the reapers AND keep their technology. Thats the whole reason the Geth had to be destroyed as well. They had Reaper tech in em.

Modifié par Acidrain92, 31 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Acidrain92]

oops double post

Modifié par Acidrain92, 31 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Pelle6666]

I don't buy this thing about throwing us back in our technological advancement in order to save us. I don't think it sits well with the main story and I don't think it is a good way to end a sci-fi adventure. They should have given us a way to keep the mass relays and still destroy the reapers.
Like;
Catalyst- "You have been warned, the cycle will repeat it self!"
Shepard- "We'll take our chances, we have united to take you down and we overcame many differences in order to do so, yet, it is these differences that defines us! We will prevail again!"

[ardias89]

This made more sense than the current ending. Would still like my choices to play a role though!

[Hobbyman]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

So - I managed to snag a copy of the original beta script that leaked back around Nov '11 (No I won't link it) - and here is what I gather:

If you don't wish to post your source you lose credibility, thereby we are led to believe that you are just another attention seeking poster.

However - The Catalyst indentifies itself as a complete new being - seperate from any other race in the galaxy.

In essence (what is also explained in the actual game) - the 'Reapers' are the solution to organics creating a powerful enough AI that would be capable of destroying the 'Reapers'.

So the reason for creating an advanced AI is to kill other organics from creating a powerful enough AI to kill your AI? Circular logic=Plot hole.

Now here's the interesting part:

Back in that version of the script (I can't actually remember if its in the actual game) - the Catalyst says that it was created to come up with that solution.

So a super-advanced race created an energy being to come up with a solution about a problem they hadn't even faced in reality, since the Reapers didn't exist before the Catalyst creates them?

If you think about the fact that the Catalyst says it was CREATED (by someone else) - the following assumption can be made:

Whoever created the Catalyst in the first place - was such an advanced race, that it almost destroyed itself through technology - in essence - through the very 'reason' - the 'Catalyst' came up with the 'Reapers': A powerful AI.

How can we assume that? For all we know the race that created the Catalyst left to search the Universe or migrated to another Universe entirely. And such an advanced race could not come up with a solution itself to a hypothetical problem and they had to create something to do it for them? It doesn't make sense. Too many assumptions.

Whether that race is still alive due to the 'Catalyst's solution - or the 'Catalyst' was simply created to come up with a solution - in order to spare other races from that same fate - is unknown.

Why then not wipe out any AI created that threatened them and instead harvested organics, leaving AI's intact? Plot hole.

In essence - by harvesting these civilizations - The Reapers also evolve from the technology they gain from the advanced civilizations and thus - each cycle - they become stronger.

Not really. A space faring civilization has nothing to gain, technologically, by harvesting a species who just invented the wheel. They are already way past that point.

This may also explain the significance of the 'Tropical Forest' ending and the destruction of the Relays.

Civilization is thrown back to the brink (but thereby saved) - as they lose their technological advancement.

Not true, since the only ending that destroys part of the technology, is the Red ending. And even with the Mass Relays destroyed, ships can still travel at FTL, albeit it will take them longer to go from one edge of the Galaxy to the other (source: Codex).

The synthesis ending in the early script - was also 'The Catalysts' ultimate solution to the 'Technology destroying civilization' problem.

Or they could just bow down to Shepard for managing to end the Geth-Quarian war thereby proving that AI and organics can co-exist peacefully. And I won't even start commenting on the Organic-Organic wars. And even in the synthesis ending, nothing points to the fact that the remaining humanoids, won't create a new AI. Unless it is postulated somewhere that the synthesis ending alters the fabric of the Cosmos and the laws of physics and chemistry, making it impossible for synthetic life to be created via nay means.

In essence - the three options you're presented at the end of the game (as far as I understand) - are the three different solutions to the problem of advanced galactic society killing itself through technological advancement (supreme AI)

A fact disproved by BioWare when they allowed Shepard to unite the Quarians and the Geth.

Overall if this document is true, it still has numerous and obvious plot holes. Which leads me to believe that it isn't and you just came up with this scenario yourself.

Modifié par TekMage, 31 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[Krootox Lord]

Honestly, the responses in this thread convinces me once again that most BioWare fans don't understand the ending.

I don't see what the "plot holes" are. At first, people complained about how the two companions got onboard the Normandy, which was explained by an arbitrary cutscene added in the DLC that in the end was trivial to the ultimate conclusion.

People say there is no real difference between the ending. These people just didn't read the dialogue and only cared about how their lesbian romance with Liara would end up.

The other argument is that the Geth and Quarian finally uniting proves the Catalyst/God Child wrong, and that is thus a plothole (which is a retarded idea of 'plot holes'). Besides the fact that the God Child is a VILLAIN with an OPINION, its sentiment that technology and AI would destroy the civilization from within was the reason for its creation. Its sole purpose was to thus try and change this. The overall theme is thus that civilization, on a galactic or planetary level, is prone to self-destruction.

When Shepard united the galaxy to fight it, he/she proved that sentiment wrong; that they can unite for a greater goal or for the greater good. By uniting the Geth and Quarians, it was proved wrong. You proved that its solution of harvesting civilizations at their peak in cycles was wrong. So in its place, you have to decide what its solution will be.

So the ending is a matter of choice concerning how you feel about Reapers, technology and methods etc. I chose the 'Red' ending because I believed the Reapers were essentially an abomination, and that by destroying them there would be no more threats of such a scale, with the confidence that AI and Organics can get along.

The Catalyst would say that the 'Green' ending is the best, namely because the Reapers ARE a combination of organics and machine. So you have to realize that the God Child/Catalyst -are- the reapers, and not the necessarily the voice of the writer. It's a character, with an opinion that lead to the cyclical genocides.

But let's face it, that's not why people hate the ending. People say the reasons above are plot holes, but they aren't. They want to have something objective technical fault to rage at the game for, rather than the true reason; they didn't like it. Mass relays gets destroyed, we have no idea what happens to our companions, and the ending is a sombre one overall. It's hard to see a continuation from it, and hard to see the Mass Effect universe continue after it, which is a hard thing considering how attached we've become to it.

That is the true reason. It's not a happy bull**** ending about how Liara and Shepard had the greatest vacation of their lives right after blowing up Harbinger with a nuclear bomb. Saying that you didn't like the ending is one thing, but saying it's objectively bad because of 'plot holes' is ****ing retarded.