296 réponses à ce sujet

[molecularman]

biotic explosions also shake screen. and if vanguards get killed that may well be because of all the bugs related to the class.

[Squadrito]

I gotta say, whenever Im playing vanguard and going around *charge, nova. charge, nova* I feel like such a douche.

[Tranceptor]

artemzz wrote...

Vanguards and then anyone playing Krogan who think they are invincible and just melee every thing they see.

^
x 100

[N7_]

Vanguards are awesome but we are annoying. It's mainly when you are with the group and out of the corner of your eye you spot a Brute and think "Yes please" hit that charge and then the rest of the team hear gentle sobbing coming through your mic 2 seconds later....

[Coolfaec]

People just blame Vanguards for everything because they're an easy scapegoat.

Do you have any idea how many infiltrators I had to save because they can't land a headshot for crap?

Modifié par Coolfaec, 19 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Hyrist]

Squadrito wrote...

I gotta say, whenever Im playing vanguard and going around *charge, nova. charge, nova* I feel like such a douche.

Hmm. I can comment against this, but rather than that, I'll provide you with an Altnerative.

Something that's not commonly done or spoken of is the construction of a "Shockwave Vanguard."

Effectively, you sacrafice Fitness to fully build Lift Shockwave. With Impact Radius and Distance for perks.

This becomes a low risk supression/combo skill for higher difficulties. Yes, it shakes the screen, but it is the difference between you taking a body shot and surviving, and you aiming for a headshot and dieing.

Shockwave becomes incredibly versitile with the right Vanguard Build (Area Charge, Power Damage, Barrier) (Radius, Half Nova, Penetration.) Which effectively allows you to charge only when you need new shields. Shockwave will both detonate AND set up for Biotic Explosions (Though it cannot detonate itself.) It will lift the first applicable target it hits and stagger the rest. It can aim through cover AND walls (which is why you want Radius/Distance, to get the most out of this trait.) 

I have this build for one of my Human Vanguards, and a straight damage Novabuild for the other. Depending on what the group needs, I chose one or the other on load out when I feel like playing my Vanguard (or am grinding for Specter packs.) 

As far as playing the Nova Vanguards right in higher dificulties, it all comes down to knowing your limits and which targets to prioritize, as well as making sure your team gets to/holds the objectives safely. A Nova-Guard can drop an enemy Armored unit incredibly quickily, even on Gold, if played well.

Pretty much, if you're worried the Traditional Vanguard will upset people, go with the Shockwave Vanguard. If you're confident your team can work well with a Novaguard, then use it, it's far more impactful even if it is a higher risk.

[cactusberry]

I like to think I'm good at the Vanguard class.

It's kind of upsetting when I see how many people generalize the entire class as impatient kill-stealers, though. That's why I only play with friends.

[Bogezzus]

RC Clone wrote...

artemzz wrote...

Vanguards and then anyone playing Krogan who think they are invincible and just melee every thing they see.

You mean like this -> www.youtube.com/watch

Hahaha...come to think of it. A team full of non melee, Carnage/Geth Shotgun Krogans would be amazing.

I've practically solo'ed the last four rounds of a silver match against the geth on my Krogan when each and every round my team would run off individually and die all over the map. Each time I ended up just running around, carnaging, and tossing hellfire grenades like they were rocks and I was in a quarry haha.

[Hyrist]

TheDarkRats wrote...

I like to think I'm good at the Vanguard class.

It's kind of upsetting when I see how many people generalize the entire class as impatient kill-stealers, though. That's why I only play with friends.

I can relate.

Honestly, I'm not there to 'steal kills'. I'm out there to harass and eliminate as much potential fire on my allies as possible - that means not waiting for somene else to line up the perfect shot with their gun so they can feel as if they contributed.

Every class as powers, using them inteligently means every class can support and be effective, regardless of their weaponry. The main complaints come from arms-centric players who take high cooldowns in trade for high damage percision weapons (Widow).

Which, those weapons are great for situations where you have a stationary or slow moving target you can just unleash damage on - it's not good in situations where the enemies are moving quckly and swarming you (reapers). 

Snipers are essentially an Anti-Cerberus tactic. If you're figthing a different faction, it might not be a good idea to tote one around unless you're ok settleing for body shots.

[BearThug71]

Vanguard = Double edged blade.

Some may be good, some may be bad... But ALL Vanguards, whether intentional or not, will take peoples kills. Its just the way it is. Almost natural to take kills from others... A trait I understand and dont mind. As long as we win the round, its all good.

[Ocassidy]

Vanguard attacking a banshee,brute or any large group of enemys on silver never works never will.

[Hyrist]

Ocassidy wrote...

Vanguard attacking a banshee,brute or any large group of enemys on silver never works never will.

Vanguard in question is attacking Banshee/Brute head on then?

Flanking manuvers help reduce the risk of getting Auto-killed (as well as having a good connection). A Novaguard can take down Banshees quicker than most other classes, and can do the same for Brutes, this gets even faster if you have a Sentinel or Adept using Warp for Biotic Explosions.

However

Neither of these classes should be the Vanguard's no.1 kill priority, as BOTH can be kited. Rather, Vanguards, during a Banshee/Brute blitz, should be on the lookout for Ravagers. They will kill your squad from afar while they try to out-manuver the blitzers. (Not to mention, if you DO eventually die to an insta-kill, it's better to have the Ravagers dead first, so your team can safely kite/harass the remaining enemies.)  The Acid can be nasty, but it's managable and as you're killing them, they're NOT harassing your allies.

Just be careful of enemy gernades when you do this.

[Tranceptor]

BearThug71 wrote...

Vanguard = Double edged blade.

Some may be good, some may be bad... But ALL Vanguards, whether intentional or not, will take peoples kills. Its just the way it is. Almost natural to take kills from others... A trait I understand and dont mind. As long as we win the round, its all good.

I'm with you on this, I don't care about my number of kills. I just want everyone to complete objectives and make it to the end.

Which is what annoys me about vanguards who charge into the center of a mob and die and krogans who do the same. Their not helping. They've got a fire arm (at LEAST ONE) so use it when enemies are at a distance, charge when they are close and the team can back them up if they need it.

Right now, I'm playing as a vanguard and the last thing I want to do (no matter what class I play) is have my team mate revive my sorry **** casue I'm charging to the other end of the map. Whatever class a person plays, stay close to the team and you wotn die nearly as often.  

[Ocassidy]

Solider is my favorite class and well said Hyrist.
I just hate when my team is killed because a vanguard got downed plus using nova takes down barriers and then they have no time to retreat and can't get away from a large group of enemy's which make us having to go get them or one gets downed on an early wave and uses medi-gel.

[Hyrist]

Right now, I'm playing as a vanguard and the last thing I want to do (no matter what class I play) is have my team mate revive my sorry **** casue I'm charging to the other end of the map. Whatever class a person plays, stay close to the team and you wotn die nearly as often.

I question how often you fight Reapers.

Unless your team is mobile, staying together can be very bad with Reapers. They corner you in with Brutes and Banshees and pummel you to death with their ranged glasses while you try to evade.

Vanguards need to know when to take the risks that come with being effective as the class, and when those risks are too high: That's really the only restriction on the actions of this class. If diving halfway across the map to destory a team of Ravagers or a Turret that is making life hell for the team is the best way to win/survive, then they better well do it, and do it fast, as no all characters are as durable as Vanguards.

Dieing away from the team is bad, no arguments there. But having your entire team die because you were too afraid of taking that risky dive is worse.

There is a middle ground here people seem to think doesn't exist. It's not Huddle or Dive. It's pay attention to your ally and enemy placement, and put yourself in the best position to do the most good.

Ocassidy wrote...

Solider is my favorite class and well said Hyrist.
I just hate when my team is killed because a vanguard got downed plus using nova takes down barriers and then they have no time to retreat and can't get away from a large group of enemy's which make us having to go get them or one gets downed on an early wave and uses medi-gel.

 

A Vanguard dieing should NEVER be the reason why your team wipes. Out of every other class in the game, the Vanguard should be the one dead first, as they are the ones that should be at the most risk.

However, just because a Vanguard dies, dosen't mean people can throw their hands up and say "Ok, Vanguard's dead. We can lose now and blame him." And that's often the case, though less sarcastically toned.

There are 4 people in an average team. The Death of 1 does not mean that team is doomed. Don't panic, play carefully and you will survive the wave.

As far as Vanguards who use Nova and can't retreat, it means they shoulden't retreat. You never run after using Nova unless you have no aquirable targets. If you must fall back, charge first for new shields, then take the shortest route to get out of the line of fire, even if that means running further from your team. Your goal is to get away enough to be able to charge back towards your team again via a safer route.

Modifié par Hyrist, 19 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[tchuron]

Vanguards can also be overpowered (I'm a little surprised people complain about them always dying). One biotic charge completely restores shields, that's almost invinciblilty. When I'm in the zone as a vanguard I can be the best on the squad 75 kills and almost never die. Unless I make the mistake of charging a banshee just in time for their stupid one hit.

[brgillespie]

RC Clone wrote...

artemzz wrote...

Vanguards and then anyone playing Krogan who think they are invincible and just melee every thing they see.

You mean like this -> www.youtube.com/watch

When you unlock your Krogan Soldier and/or Sentinel you'll understand why all Krogan players run around meleeing everyone.

HINT: Krogans get massive upgrades to their melee abilities (+dmg and dmg mitigation). Tech Armor for the Sentinel can be upgraded to further improve melee. Finally, killing three enemies (upgradable to just two enemies) in 30 seconds sends them into a "Rage", providing even further melee bonuses.

Manage to unlock the melee attachments for the shotgun and/or pistol and you have even fuuuurther melee bonuses.

The class is beast.

[brgillespie]

Additionally, all the maniacal laughter from your Krogan provides lulz in real life.

[RaikonHawke]

lol all my gold runs im vanguard human with katana X and i do work only enemy that truly gives me trouble is Geth cause of pyros and hunters

[Documental]

I play asari vanguard BUT I rarely charge, it doesn't do much damage and I prefer to stay at a distance and pick off targets with one hit kills from my Mantis IX. The things that I really like about vanguards are that you can play as asari and if you can use them correctly, lift grenades are deadly, and awesome.

[Tranceptor]

Hyrist wrote...

Right now, I'm playing as a vanguard and the last thing I want to do (no matter what class I play) is have my team mate revive my sorry **** casue I'm charging to the other end of the map. Whatever class a person plays, stay close to the team and you wotn die nearly as often.

I question how often you fight Reapers.

Unless your team is mobile, staying together can be very bad with Reapers. They corner you in with Brutes and Banshees and pummel you to death with their ranged glasses while you try to evade.

Vanguards need to know when to take the risks that come with being effective as the class, and when those risks are too high: That's really the only restriction on the actions of this class. If diving halfway across the map to destory a team of Ravagers or a Turret that is making life hell for the team is the best way to win/survive, then they better well do it, and do it fast, as no all characters are as durable as Vanguards.

Dieing away from the team is bad, no arguments there. But having your entire team die because you were too afraid of taking that risky dive is worse.

There is a middle ground here people seem to think doesn't exist. It's not Huddle or Dive. It's pay attention to your ally and enemy placement, and put yourself in the best position to do the most good.

There's deffinate middle ground, but I think it's very map and situation dependent.

Often what I think most people see (I know I do) are the vanguards who charge first. When I use charge it's never against an enemy that has more than 1/4 health . Many of the vaguards I've played with take too much risk too often and that, to me, is the major problem.

I like the class and don't mind if they steal kills, we're a team after all, but it gets tiring when you are often one player or more down because the team vanguard(s) are constantly dying because they think they are invincible or that they can kill everything with one charge.  

[Youmu]

Ocassidy wrote...

Vanguard attacking a banshee,brute or any large group of enemys on silver never works never will.

 Brutes are extremely easy to take down as Vanguard. They do have an instant kill move, but I can't recall the last time when I'd have died to one of those. Especially when hosting, just Charge in, start backing out, Nova, and roll back. Charge back in.

Same works for Banshee, but I wouldn't (and don't) go for them unless there's nothing else left. While Charge+roll back keeps you alive, it does a lot less damage without the Nova, and there's still a chance the Banshee grabs you. (if they do, it has always been of the "force the poor novaguard to hover back in front of the Banshee and impale-variety). If the host is laggy, might as well forget out them, tho.

[Hyrist]

Tranceptor wrote...

There's deffinate middle ground, but I think it's very map and situation dependent.

Often what I think most people see (I know I do) are the vanguards who charge first. When I use charge it's never against an enemy that has more than 1/4 health . Many of the vaguards I've played with take too much risk too often and that, to me, is the major problem.

I like the class and don't mind if they steal kills, we're a team after all, but it gets tiring when you are often one player or more down because the team vanguard(s) are constantly dying because they think they are invincible or that they can kill everything with one charge.  

Charging first isn't a bad thing if you know how to position your charges, which gets easier if you get Area Charge which allows you to stagger/damage three opponents for the price of one. But you have to know that all other targets are withn range of Nova (which sometimes takes manually repositioning yourself).

That said, you're going to spot a REALLY crafty Novaguard if you see them Nova (even if it's right next to you) immediately before engaging with a charge - this means they're using Nova specifically to activate it's passive (Cooldown Bonus) before charging in - meaning they're second charge will show up sooner than if they just charged.

In close, winding corners, I actually prefer my Shock-Guard, as again, I can shockwave through walls and cover and screw with enemies before they even get in visiual range. Novaguards need line of sight and close quarters to be effective.

But for that spec I chose half-nova specifically for the ability to detonate my own lifts without sacraficing my entire shields (or use it specifically to wipe out enemy shields and still have some left to lift them in the air with shockwave.)  But I still use Novaguard tactics against armored opponents, though, not as effective because of the lack of Fitness boosting barrier and the splitting my damage between two novas.

[heshkelgaii]

Vanguards only annoy me because they are boring to play.  Also if you are playing a vanguard right it should be Charge+Nova+Nova in my opinion at least.  Also if you are in a tight spot you don't have to use the second Nova and you still have some barrier to fall back on.  Generally the Idea is to spam against the 6xPyro's, 6xHunters, and 3xPrimes that are making their way to the rest of the group...of course when it's 3xBanshees or 40xPhantoms it isn't as appealing.  Vanguards have a role just like any class and it takes some time to figure out how to fulfill that role correctly, Many people tend to think that Vanguards are simply trash because their playstyle is high risk high reward, however properly built the risk factor can be dropped significantly...Also Shockwave...why even have it really, I believe the spot should just be blank so I don't have press a button one more time to get to Nova.

In other words Vanguards are great for farming credits, not so great if you like doing something other than Y, Rb, Rb... or on pc 1, 2, 2...

[Youmu]

heshkelgaii wrote...

In other words Vanguards are great for farming credits, not so great if you like doing something other than Y, Rb, Rb... or on pc 1, 2, 2...

I'm not sure how that differs from other caster classes, Adepts for most part just alternate between two abilities for 'splosions. Engineers might end up spamming a single key, followed by spamming another one (strip shields, burn down armor). 

Krogan Soldier pretty much just spams Carnage non stop.

Modifié par Youmu, 19 mars 2012 - 11:34 .