296 réponses à ce sujet

[BiO]

The reason Vanguards get so much hate is because of the game mode, horde mode. You basically are placed inside this large map and enemies usually spawn the farthest point they can from your position. Vanguards are the fastest class that can reach them, because of their charge ability. So by the time you reach them, they have already cleared the area/have left enemies on very low health. This pisses people off because they have to run in circles just to find an enemy too shoot, and when they do, the vanguard will most likely reach the target faster, and kill it before you can even do 1 health bar worth of damage.

Of course, this only happens in Bronze matches, and somewhat in Silver, if the Vanguard is competent. On Gold, that's a different story. If a vanguard charges alone in a room full of enemies on the other side of the map, they are in a lot of trouble, and will most likely die. Besides, if a Vanguard is playing Gold, they probably know tactics and never leave teammates alone.

[Arppis]

BiO_MaN wrote...

The reason Vanguards get so much hate is because of the game mode, horde mode. You basically are placed inside this large map and enemies usually spawn the farthest point they can from your position. Vanguards are the fastest class that can reach them, because of their charge ability. So by the time you reach them, they have already cleared the area/have left enemies on very low health. This pisses people off because they have to run in circles just to find an enemy too shoot, and when they do, the vanguard will most likely reach the target faster, and kill it before you can even do 1 health bar worth of damage.

Of course, this only happens in Bronze matches, and somewhat in Silver, if the Vanguard is competent. On Gold, that's a different story. If a vanguard charges alone in a room full of enemies on the other side of the map, they are in a lot of trouble, and will most likely die. Besides, if a Vanguard is playing Gold, they probably know tactics and never leave teammates alone.

Aye, spot on. I'd imagen that being the case too...

But, then again when you gotta download-objective, I'm pretty stripped from my abilities. I don't have shockwave on my Vanguard for example (it's inacurate and when it hits, it does so with force of a wet sock), so I can mostly just shoot around with my SMG and shotgun, charge enemies who swim to my vests.

[Hyrist]

The Vanguards I hate are the ones who take your kill just as you are about the finish an enemy. It wastes firepower (I'm not bothered about kill stealing... would rather the Vanguard take down another enemy while I'm taking down mine).

To turn that on it's head.

"I hate it when players who think they own every kill decide to finish off an enemy when I need to charge it and restore my barrier."

Before you complain about kill stealing, realize the mechanic of Charge. It restores barriers. Nova, drains Barriers to do large amounts of Damage. A Novaguard who charges your target - likely isn't doing it 'to steal your kill'. They're doing it to restore their barrier. Get over it - it's kind of the way the Vanguard stays alive.

A Novaguard who takes cover is either in danger (lost barriers, can't find a safe target). Or not playing to their class's potential. Simple as that.

This isn't an issue about being a lone wolf so much about being what the job is - front line heavy damage.

I mean 90% of these complaints are done out of ignorance of the job's mechanics or the situation the Vanguard is in. The other 10% is a mix between it being a genuinely bad player in general or unrefined on the class.

First thing a Novaguard learns is that to deal the most damage they have to do, they have to quickly acquire charge and Nova Targets continually, charge being the biggest issue here as it restores your shields.

Second, is learning how to prioritize targets most dangerous to you and/or your group to keep them distracted and to pile on damage.

The third thing they have to learn is when to completely go against those previous two mechanics - and is a MUCH harder lesson as it puts your Vanguard at the most risk if you're under fire for whatever reason.

Vanguards are NEVER going to be greatly loved, because their vary role requires that they be somewhat selfish. Asari are exceptions to this because Charge and Stasis share a role, and Stasis's utility outweighs charge in most cases. Playing an Asari Vanguard, I just can't justify charging often at all as it goes against the strengths of the kit, for Asariguards charge is really only a repositioning tool.

NeoMorph, go play a Human Vanguard a while and you'll realize just how the kit pretty much forces that 'Lone Wolf' style you're complaining about. Take out a small group next to your allies and you realize that you're getting pegged at by the next wave just around the corner, and if you don't immediately charge at them, you die. This situation happens over and over again in quick succession until you realize you've soloed most the wave.

Only after you've played Novaguard a while do you begin to piece together when exactly and how you can fall back and survive. So try not to blame those who are learning.

Luckily, I'm a good bit past that point. I still prefer my WaveGuard when I know my team can output the damage needed to take down the big targets. But I can play a NovaGuard on a level that makes players appreciate me rather than hate me. Though, it still requires a good deal of charging almost dead enemies.

- Having a Mic helps too though. Killing a targeted enemy with charge feels less insulting when you can actually explain that your shield were down and needed the recharge.

[Hyrist]

But, then again when you gotta download-objective, I'm pretty stripped from my abilities. I don't have shockwave on my Vanguard for example (it's inacurate and when it hits, it does so with force of a wet sock), so I can mostly just shoot around with my SMG and shotgun, charge enemies who swim to my vests.

You built it wrong or diddn't completly build it then.

Width, Distance, Lift. Enemies with only health get lifted or knocked aside. Lifted Targets can be detonated with Nova or any ally skill (or shot down by yourself or allies.) Shockwave will also detonate Tech and Biotic explosions.

Go half Nova with distance, and Area Charge with Barrier. (Power damage passive.) The direct damage you deal will be much smaller compared to a Novaguard, but the suppression and combo damage you will deal will be a lot larger. It is very effective when played as a support element with another biotic. (If you have another Vanguard, switch to Waveguard.) Works very well with Adepts too, as it allows you to chain combos with the Adept while staying in their support range.

[DashRunner92]

I run around on my own pretty much on Bronze. On silver and gold I stick to my team, especially on gold.

[Nissun]

If your N7 level is above 100 and your Vanguard character between 17-20, WHAT THE F*UCK ARE YOU DOING PLAYING IN BRONZE?

Play a solo run in bronze if you want, but don't waste my time. I don't want to join a match only to stand around and watch you do things. You tough guy.

Only happened once, though, but pissed me off.

[BiO]

Nissun wrote...

If your N7 level is above 100 and your Vanguard character between 17-20, WHAT THE F*UCK ARE YOU DOING PLAYING IN BRONZE?

Play a solo run in bronze if you want, but don't waste my time. I don't want to join a match only to stand around and watch you do things. You tough guy.

Only happened once, though, but pissed me off.

Your signature disturbs me... I should go

[Miktia]

I just grabbed an Asari Vanguard. I'll freely admit I've never much used Vanguard. More of an Engineer brain. Whenever I've tried Human Vanguard I just... ugh, things go badly. I freely admit it! However I was playing around on the Asari solo for fun, and I was actually struck by how fun it is, despite being only level... 6 or so. My general idea was that this could be a great support/harass class. Basically you stay with the 'squishies' (Engineers, some Infils) and guard their "area". Stasis on some enemies. Chunk out grenades for groups. And of course... lots of dodge+charge (which I see as the greatest strength. Dodge like a mad Asari then use Charge to get that lost barrier back. My favorite tactic was charge, side-dodge, charge from different angle, repeat.). Lots of moving about. I settled on my Phalanx V for the weapon, as its damage is solid and I had quick power recharge time. I also tried my Katana X which left me with 170% power rate, which seemed solid as well. For spec I figured I'd go something like...

Charge: 6 (Radius, Weapons, Shield Regen)
Stasis: 6 (Strength, Bonus, Bubble)
Grenades: 6 (Radius, Max, Slam)
Justicar: 5 (Damage & Capacity, Power Damage)
Fitness: 3

Any thoughts on the Spec? Gameplay tips? Any that might help someone whos fairly new to Vanguards? I really don't want to be one of those "obnoxious" Vanguards. Just as I don't want to be a bad Engineer, or Infil, or whatever it may be!

[wotmaniac]

I play Asari Vanguard most of the time, and charge plus heavy melee is pretty effective. Frequently Im the only one left standing when some trooper or cannibal throws down a grenade. Charge the cannibal!
Also pretty useful for reviving teammates: Charge enemy, heavy melee, rinse and repeat, then revive.
Normal play I usually go around picking off loners.
When in hack objectives, i just stasis targets so snipers can pick them off.
The trick IMO, is to minimize cooldowns and OBSERVE. Dont go charging in the middle of a damn bunch of enemies.
And yeah, phantoms go down so easy. 1 shotting them on silver when their barriers are down. SO AWESOME.

[Miktia]

I'd considered the Charge+Heavy Melee tactic, but I just figured that was a less efficient Charge+Nova tactic that had less invincible frames with a longer 'stuck in place' frame at the end, so that anything that didn't die could sit there and hit you.

So I decided to go more of a quick harassment build.

[Final Marauder]

They are more annoying than helpful. Every Vanguard I've played with always rush off, get downed then quit when no one helps them. Plus that Nova sound bug is really irking me at the moment.

[Youmu]

Final Marauder wrote...

They are more annoying than helpful. Every Vanguard I've played with always rush off, get downed then quit when no one helps them. Plus that Nova sound bug is really irking me at the moment.

Sounds like you've only played with the ****ty Vanguards, then. (Which isn't that surprising given how many of them there are...)

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I tried to play the Human Vanguard but I find it way to risky.  I understand how to play it but too many times I'm taking on 2 or 3 ppl, which I've seen done thousands of times, only to get blasted by a stray enemy...then my shields go....then I have to wait for cood down....and in the process I die.

Either way, I've found the Asari Vanguard to be more helpful in most situations especially in Gold matches.

[Eclispe]

Im a Drell Vanguard by heart , But i only have an Asari right now but i love Vanguards one of the first class's to play on ME1 ahhh good day's , Stasis & Power Charge !

Death Before Dishonor.

[OmegaDestroyer]

Just got done watching two vanguards ragequit because nobody would help rez them after they charged two geth primes surrounded by pyros and hunters on a kill target mission.

I really don't know what the vanguards were expecting. Trying to rez them would have been suicidial.

[wotmaniac]

Miktia wrote...

I'd considered the Charge+Heavy Melee tactic, but I just figured that was a less efficient Charge+Nova tactic that had less invincible frames with a longer 'stuck in place' frame at the end, so that anything that didn't die could sit there and hit you.

So I decided to go more of a quick harassment build.

Yeah, first tactic I use mostly against Cerberus, they are slow...mostly
For geth and reapers: like you said: charge dodge, quick shot with pistol\\SMG and charge again.

What do you guys recommend for anti armor? I am using SMG at monent, but I know it sucks. soon as I get a proper pistol i will switch to that.

[LeandroBraz]

Asari is perfect for charge, because of her slide, stasis and lift grenade. Stay close to your friends. Saw a bunch of enemies? Stasis+lift grenade, then charge, melee if you have time to, if don't, just slide back to where your squad are, shooting the enemies and charging again if your barrier go down or you see a good spot.

Always think (fast) before charging, always keep a grenade and use before charge, know when you need to go into cover and use more stasis, and slide when you are overwhelmed but can't charge bacause of cooldown or lack of a safe spot to do it.

[LeandroBraz]

for who are complaining about stealing kills, it's so lame. There's no such thing as stealing kills, it's a damn coop. If you really care about who will kill what, just kill faster. It's nobody's fault that you are slow.

[LeandroBraz]

Geth piro is ruled by Asari Vanguard. charge, slide back, keep shooting into you can charge again. Work against others armored units too, mainly ravagers.. I love to kill ravagers with charge. They can't even shoot =D

Modifié par LeandroBraz, 23 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[SeanThen1]

I definitely see Vanguards as a polarizing class. If you have 2 Charge/Nova specced Vanguards in your lobby expect to land about 4 kills on waves 1-5 and to do all of the heavy lifting on group hack missions. That being said, they are extremely effective at destroying swarms of enemies and are a lot of fun to play.

Even I get annoying at how much noise pollution they put out, though. Them and Adepts.

[Adragalus]

My two main MP classes are Infiltrator and Vanguard, so I understand where the other is coming from. The trick is to understand your role, and change that based upon squad composition.

There's either the aggro equivalent of running around screaming and waving your arms, the strategy of constantly being at the center of a biotic explosion filled with shotguns, or tactical annihilation of targets and rapid-transit assistance.

I've got a regular team of four who play all Vanguards, basically for wrecking ball duty. We can sweep Silver in about 17 minutes, just spamming the crap out of everything, because nobody cares about killstealing or messing up sniper shots.

Even on higher difficulties, or versus things like Brutes, Banshees, Atlases, or Primes, Charge->shotgun/melee/Nova whilst kiting around the enemy can keep them spinning in circles and doing nothing by trying in vain to kill the fly keeping them from attacking. 

I also regularly play Vanguard with an Infiltrator for backup. The trick for that is to Charge a ton to stay alive, pulling aggro, luring trash mobs away, and generally being an unkillable distraction. Teammates use this in order to cap objectives, complete hacks, and generally finish off the dozens of staggered enemies.

Long and short of it is, if you're playing a Vanguard, alter your playstyle based upon what's going on. And for the love of God, speaking as both a Vanguard and an Infiltrator, do NOT shockwave spam while standing next to a sniper. The screenshake makes us insane.

Modifié par Adragalus, 23 mars 2012 - 01:07 .