296 réponses à ce sujet

[zambingo]

Forgot to say I finished the last parts of three waves by myself. Couldn't get to the team in time. But just kept running, dashing and smashing. I got lucky a few times, also had those instant shield chargers which helped.

Anyway, the session made me start a new solo campaign as a Vanguard... loving it.

[Vherokior]

 I was actually about to make a thread regarding this until I saw this one.

Nothing pisses me off more than the flagrant jack-asses that literally charge everytime they get the ****ing opportunity. Seriously, I can handle most situations on my own; I had early access to multiplayer and hit the demo up until I had N7 120. I know what I am doing. I DO NOT need three ****ing Vanguards using their charge ability on the cluster of Geth Troopers/Cannibals that are well within my kill-range.

Please; for the love of christ and all that is holy, Vanguards, if you see tracer rounds being shot at something that you -know for a fact can be killed without you intervening- DO NOT CHARGE IT. Nothing is more irritating than seeing the blinding blue light of petty kill-stealing in my scope when I am about to make a headshot/use a charged shotgun round. 

Why you ask? It wastes my ammo, it robs me of my kill, but -most importantly- it just goes to show how arrogant you are as to fly off into the middle of a firefight (lacking any sense of self-preservation might I add) thinking you're all that and a box of chocolates. 

9/10 I don't even bother reviving Vanguards as the people who play them are so bat**** insane they're just going to die at some point anyway; and nothing gives me more joy than seeing a banshee's arm rip out their back-sides when they get this cocky attitude.

If there is -anything- that could change to give me respect for Vanguards it would be a nerf to the seemingly -INFINITE- range of their charge ability; or even a period of rest (not unlike after using heavy melee) that would give them second thoughts before jumping right into the heat of everything that can possibly kill them.

[zambingo]

Vherokior, I hear your pain, specially risking your survival and team survival to keep reviving a Leroy. But at the same time why truly care about "kill stealing" in co-op? So ya get an assist instead, no biggy. I usually end with over 50+ assists and many of those were people "stealing kills" from a guy I was shotgunning to oblivion. I can see it being frustrating if the team are idiots, but overall killing things quick, smart and together should trump personal stats. Rite?

[nssBoB]

Vherokior wrote...

If there is -anything- that could change to give me respect for Vanguards it would be a nerf to the seemingly -INFINITE- range of their charge ability; or even a period of rest (not unlike after using heavy melee) that would give them second thoughts before jumping right into the heat of everything that can possibly kill them.

oh i am vanguard player and i would love to see that myself, hard to count the times when targeting system screwed up and instead of charging that annoyig group closing on my team i hovered to the other side of map to die at hands of some filthy turret

[AlphaDormante]

Something to keep in mind: if Vanguards are charging, 30% of the time it is to actually get close to the enemy. 70% of the time it is to replenish our shields (okay, ass-pull percentage, but it's absolutely true).

Charging is our main method of staying alive. If we suddenly Charge that guy you're shooting? Yeah, really sorry about that. But "stealing yo kill" was probably our last thought. Our first thought might have been more along the lines of "OH GOD SHIELDS DOWN BLOOD EVERYWHERE OH GOD OH GOD". Really. We don't Charge just to be dicks about it. Sentinels have their Tech Armor to manage shield strength, Infiltrators have their Cloak, and we have our Charge. That's just how it is.

If we don't charge, we die a LOT. And I think many, many people have already established how much they hate dying Vanguards.

[Vherokior]

zambingo wrote...

Vherokior, I hear your pain, specially risking your survival and team survival to keep reviving a Leroy. But at the same time why truly care about "kill stealing" in co-op? So ya get an assist instead, no biggy. I usually end with over 50+ assists and many of those were people "stealing kills" from a guy I was shotgunning to oblivion. I can see it being frustrating if the team are idiots, but overall killing things quick, smart and together should trump personal stats. Rite?

You're right but it's the issue that shotgun users have very limited ammo; and dishing out charged up shots (especially with the Geth Plasma Shotgun) eats up ammo. So when I'm fighting an Atlas/Banshee/Geth Prime by myself; what usually happens is this: The rest of my team is all the way across the map, doing what they're doing while I'm pushing out rounds into this thing until it's got one or so blocks of armor left. What happens? FORCE RO DOKEN out of no-where and I wind up with 200 assist points by comparison of 1100 points for the kill.

[Zen_Mojo]

When vanguards are on, they're on, and they'll scalp the heck out of your kill xp and not even bat an eyelash.

That's fine, I guess. It's what you're built for.

However, they'll often also chase down enemies around the map to get to the kills first using their melee advantage even when you're hacking or you need someone to cover you while you disable an indoctrinator.

That's...just annoying.

I haven't met many vanguards that are team players.

[humes spork]

T3hMerc wrote...

I've just started playing a Novaguard and I'm really enjoying it! I don't die all that often and it's incredibly fun to jet into a trash mob and nova them all to death before rushing back to cover. Could you "good" Vanguards give me some basic tips so that I can avoid being a dickbag to play with?

Here are some things I like to do on my vanguard, that seems to keep everyone on the team very happy that I'm there.

I carry a light, midrange weapon. That serves two purposes: I can soften enemies up before moving in for the kill, and I can do objectives much better than if I were only carrying a shotgun. Actually, I don't even carry a shotgun on my vanguard(s). Plus, lining up a couple shots before charging in forces you to assess a situation and whether you'd be putting yourself at undue risk by charging, and decide when is the best time to charge in. Don't charge until you're confident that by the time you're done, that group of enemies will be dead. Of course, don't wait too long because the smartass infiltrator would love nothing more to steal kills from the kill stealing vanguard, and inadvertently leave you defenseless in the process.

I always charge/roll then nova. I took to that one on my vanguard Shepard, fighting banshees and brutes. If you take the radius upgrade to nova, if you roll your initial target will still be in nova range. And, having assessed the situation you can roll into an area that'll put you in better cover, set up your next charge, hit more enemies than you would be charge/nova, and help your teammates by clearing their line of fire. Which can have surprising and pleasant outcomes, like if someone's lining up a shot on a guardian and you charge/roll, giving them a clean headshot when otherwise they'd have to try to mail slot them or sit there in frustration that you're blocking their shot. Plus you can adapt a hit-and-run style more like ME2 vanguards'; charge, roll into cover, figure out who you want to charge next, duck out to nova then charge again.

Charge/roll is even nicer in light of the fact you don't want to nova the instant you finish a charge. Make sure your power cooldown is almost up before nova'ing, because the last thing you want is to be stuck on cooldown for 1-2 seconds with no barriers. When you charge, roll, then nova your cooldown's up by the time nova is done. And, don't just charge randomly. If there's an enemy out there and you're not in danger of losing your shields, just shoot the stupid thing.

Always help defend objectives. If you're on a download objective, it won't kill you to just stay back and take shots at enemies even if it's just suppressive fire, and only charge and/or nova if the objective area is in danger of being overrun. And above all else, keep your head. Vanguards don't seem like it, but they're the brainiest class when done properly. They certainly require more of that stuff that exists between your ears than cloak, snipe, take cover, rinse repeat. Don't ever, ever panic.

If you get in and things look too hot, you have to make a judgment call -- get out or go all-in. Don't ever wait to make that call, since you will end up dead if you do. If you have to get out, charge, roll as a stalling tactic, set up your next charge so you can roll out and find some cover. On this point, situational awareness is god. Know your maps and where you're at on each map. And if you decide to go all-in, frak it go berserk -- sometimes you can surprise yourself.

Modifié par humes spork, 15 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Zen_Mojo wrote...
I haven't met many vanguards that are team players.

I haven't met many players of ANY class that are team players. 

To everyone out there:  If you're a good team player and play on XBL, drop me a line.  I could stand to expand my currently small circle of good team players, because I'm tired of soloing half the waves on gold after my teammates suicide.

That said, played correctly, a Vanguard is an amazing teammate. 
-Charges and novas will set off all kinds of combo explosions, thus multiplying the damage output of teammates who take advantage of them.
-Vanguards have some of the best crowd control in the game and can completely obviate the threat of most units, the only exception being giant units and phantoms (and in the case of the phantoms, only if they use the buggy range OHKO, which I've seen pull a vanguard from THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE MAP to a death.  What the hell Bioware).  When a Vanguard slams into a group of foes (or a giant foe, like a geth prime), they are completely occupied and teammates are free to do what they will.  In other words, Vanguards are the ultimate tanks, only rivaled by the Salarian Engineer.
-Vanguards are one of the best classes for quickly grabbing objectives, outclassed only by the infiltrator.  In the case of hacking objectives, they are incredibly effective at stopping that circle from being overwhelmed, and might actually be more useful than an infiltrator at that particular objective.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 15 mars 2012 - 07:17 .

[X2-Elijah]

I play a vanguard pretty well, and sometimes even I annoy myself.

That said, if a sniper shoots down a target before I manage to take it out, I don't get angry at him/her, I think "nice shot" and move on. Why can't other people have the same mentality, I wonder? The game is, after all, about clearing the waves and objectives asap.
As a vanguard, I always prioritize kill-targets, I always cover the people who are hacking (and run to a hacking node, and hack if I'm the closest to it), I always stay in the 5-minute-hack-zone.. And when it is a free-for-all wave, I'll do my best to kill as many enemies as soon as possible. On Silver and above, I don't blindly rush, because that means death; I always stick near teammates (though I will flick between teammates if they are separated).

So why do I charge at nearly-dead enemies? Why do I fly all over the map? BECAUSE I NEED MY GODDAMN SHIELDS RESTORED.
Please understand this - CHARGE RESTORES SHIELDS. CHARGE IS ME SURVIVING. I don't give a damn who gets a kill, or how much hp that one enemy has, or how many people are targetting it. All I care, at that moment, is to avoid death and avoid having to pull one of you three for revival.

[GodlessPaladin]

Anyone who says anything pejorative about "kill stealing" is pretty much just declaring outright that they themselves are a bad teammate. 

There are a few exceptions to this (sometimes it's beneficial to let a certain teammate hit a target, such as a krogan getting his blood rage), but in most cases it is bad players whining about people helping them win.  Whining about people helping you defeat enemies is an absurdity, and
this mindset (perpetuated by things like K/D ratios) is one of the
greatest blows to competitive FPS gaming in recent memory.  When someone
cares about their score card more than their team winning, that's a
problem.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 15 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[GodlessPaladin]

FUS ROH DAH FTW wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Anyone who says anything pejorative about "kill stealing" is pretty much just declaring outright that they are a bad teammate.

exactly being a good teammate sucks, who cares about others only you matters, learn that.

Are you suggesting that "kill stealing" is somehow being a bad teammate?

[Knight_Quack]

I only hate people who think they are playing COD, running around the entire map, each on his own. I try to follow but after a while you get tired at following them to their doom.

[GodlessPaladin]

FUS ROH DAH FTW wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

FUS ROH DAH FTW wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Anyone who says anything pejorative about "kill stealing" is pretty much just declaring outright that they are a bad teammate.

exactly being a good teammate sucks, who cares about others only you matters, learn that.

Are you suggesting that "kill stealing" is somehow being a bad teammate?

Nope i say that it can be bad if you charge straight over to other end of map and die constantly but why not let them kill you over and over and let your whole team die, just for the rage especially if the fools have a mic too it's rather fun but srsly though kill stealing for the sake of getting kills is more of a liabilty than help you're not useful dead which happens every time i see a vanguard they die constantly.

...I don't see how any of what you said is responding to anything I said.

[Lynx7725]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
-Vanguards are one of the best classes for quickly grabbing objectives, outclassed only by the infiltrator.  In the case of hacking objectives, they are incredibly effective at stopping that circle from being overwhelmed, and might actually be more useful than an infiltrator at that particular objective.

Speaking as an infiltrator, I dislike hack objectives as it tends to pin me to a small radius. As a cloaking sniper, I much prefer to have a free radius to gain killshot lanes. I could stay outside, but that depends on having teammates that are ok with being targets in the circle, and 4 players hacking get that part over and done with faster. In such a case, a Vanguard is almost certainly perfect -- enemy's coming to you, can charge and nova as you like... Infiltrators like me prefer to be somewhere else when that happens.

As for the other "missions" -- point capping and mob assassination is good for an infilitrator, especially with the right gun. If an infilitrator is not actively going for point capping, she's not doing her job. If an infiltrator is not looking to come at a "target of interest" from a different angle, she's not doing her job. I've recently had a game in Reactor where I was cloak-running along the rim to get to Target Cerberus Guardians... because ( a ) my teammates were busy trying to go up the middle, and ( b ) I knew my gun can go through the front shield and still kill Guardians. I ended up killing all three Target Guardians (quickest assassination I could remember), and IIRC sharing an Target Atlas on that one. 

[X2-Elijah]

You do realize that the end-score tallies are based mostly on DAMAGE DEALT, right? So if a vanguard is scoring at the top, it's not because of kill-stealing (hekc- just subtract -5000 points for 50 kills, if you are so offended), it's because maybe, you know, just saying, because the vanguard actually did the most damage all things considered?

The only thing kills count for is towards the "kill count badge". and guess what - if an enemy dies and you did damage to it and another person did damage to it, you both get relative damage-adjusted point for it, and someone gets the kill-count-badge-point, and the others get the assist-count-badge-point.

So think about this - why aren't you getting your 50 or 75 assists, huh? Why aren't you keeping up in damage output?

So please.. stop mindless vanguard bashing. This isn't COD, kills do not matter the most, damage dealt does, and time taken to finish a wave does. ANd if you haven't played with good vanguards.. Well, bad luck.

[Sinapus]

I play Vanguard from time to time. Not sure if I'm "good" at it, mostly because I'm not an overly aggressive player. I have better luck using an Engineer to spam chain overloads and drones or sniping w/Infiltrator.

I usually try to charge at targets that are near places I can duck into cover or similar. As for "kill-stealing" I usually don't charge enemies under stasis or singularity, since they're being dealt with. It seems to be a better idea to attack any enemies that aren't affected by that sort of attack before they can do harm.

Shockwave I find useful for the static defenses like the uploads or the wait for evac battle. Stagger enemies, keep them off balance, etc. I probably annoy Infiltrators doing that, but it happens to me as an infiltrator too. Maybe they need to give sniper rifles that red targetting beam the Nemesis has so people know you're targetting THAT opponent and if they're paying attention can go after another target.

Still end up dying sometimes.

(Most embarrassing for me so far: Took a risk charging a combat engineer on the Firebase White landing pad to take him out before he could setup a turret. Nova'd... and then a Phantom jumped up onto the pad and my charge still hadn't finished cooldown.)

[My-name-is-Paradox]

I love vanguards so long as they do their job and help with objectives from time to time. However if they decide to wander off from the group like a lone wolf they shouldn't expect me to run across the map to resurrect them when I have a banshee in my face.

[DemonCommander]

I've just started playing as a human vanguard the other day and I have to say it is really fun. Yea, when i first started playing, I charged and nova'd everything i saw and I still do on bronze because its bronze, but now when ever I play on silver or gold i don't charge in blindly because I've learned not to do that. I actually feel the most useful when I clear the enemies that are nearest to my squadmates. It make me feel like what a tank is in World of Warcraft. The guy who gets the attention (aggro) of the enemies and keeping them off other players.

[Klatten]

I'm curious - exactly HOW are people playing their Vanguards? I'm playing a bulky human vanguard myself, with only an Assault Rifle or Pistol equipped. This drops me down to roughly -180% to -150% recharge speed, meaning I have my charge up roughly every 3 seconds.

I haven't played any gold as I mostly only play with my brother, but for bronze and partially silver, I can mostly tank anything unless I get that one or two seconds of lag where I can't get my charge off. And Nova deals a **** ton of damage to shielded/armored enemies with the final skillpoint.

They're without a doubt my favourite class, so mobile and fast paced, you fly everywhere constantly (with my playstyle, that is.) I've been thinking of trying to go weaponless to get -200% recharge spede on skills, but at these speeds the difference would be marginal.