296 réponses à ce sujet

[Hyrist]

Only things that manage to auto-kill me are Banshees and the occasional brute these days.

That said, if lag is bad there is the ultra-rare occurring of a Phantom or Atlas death, but I haven't had those since release.

My main complaint right now is the lack of weaponry I have. My Vanguard is begging for a Carniflex or at least some powerful upgrade.

There's a bit of finesse trying to plan your invincibility frames to block specific attacks such as the Banshee nova, or the Brute Charge, but once that is accomplished, really the only thing that kills you is the cheap autokills these monsters have to specifically counter Vanguards.

[Ice Cold J]

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

It depends.

I've played with some pretty decent vanguards. Granted, I get a little peeved when they get the "75 kills" medal at the end of the match, but I don't whine too much b/c they were solid teammates who helped everyone out, PURSUED OBJECTIVES, drew fire, and revived when necessary.

Then, there are those who do NOTHING but spam biotic charge (then often nova) in a blatant attempt to get ALL the kills.

I trap my enemy in a singularity, waiting the 2 seconds to detonate it with warp, when, from across the FREAKIN' map, a biotic charge finishes him off and takes my kill.

What? Were you trying to save me? Dude was being levitated in mid-air? Was I REALLY in danger?

I was playing a Drell vanguard last night, mostly sniping. However, when our position got overwhelmed, I went into classic vanguard mode, charging and roundhousing anythign stupid enough to get close. When the threat was over, I went back to my sniping job. I didn't BCKS (biotic charge kill steal) at all. If a teammate had a bead on someone, I let them finish them off, even though I was ONE Mantis shot or Y button press away from taking their glory.

This is a TEAM mode. Live it. Love it. Or get the **** out.

I usually play Adepts too so used to be annoyed by Vanguards also until I realized that that Bioware made the multiplayer like a MMO & RPG in that

ALL EXPERIENCE & CREDITS PER MISSION IS SHARED AT THE END OF THE MISSION --WE ALL GET THE SAME CREDITS & EXPERIENCE POINTS at end of mission... so if others rack up 100+ kills while I only get assists, it doesn't matter, we all get the same experience total experiences points of everyone on the team added up

so it's alll good --other players can get the kills but you still get all the experience points they get too !

Once you realize that, you can relax, enjoy the game without having to worry about getting the most kills on the leaderboards --it's NOT like CoD where only your own kills count --EVERYONE'S experience/kills/assists are added to  the SQUAD experience points & EVERYONE GETS THE TOTAL SQUAD EXPERIENCE POINTS

I'm not worried about the EXP et al. I'm mad about vanguards acting like they're the ish when a good half of what they did was the direct result of their teammates. Haven't run into TOO many of these (probably b/c most people don't use their mics), but when you get them, it's annoying as hell.

I guess what really bothers me more is alonf the lines of...

The Masquerade wrote...

I don't care about them "stealing" kills. It is a TEAM effort and all the experience is shared at the end. The quicker the mobs go down the better in my opinion.

The problem i do have with Vanguards though is very few of them are team players, i come across way too many who only seem to care about getting the highest score and nothing else.

- I rarely see a Vanguard help with objectives.
- Most Vanguards appear to not know where the revive a fallen squad member button is.
- They die a lot, usually at the other end of the map surrounded by enemies.
- More often than not they fail to make it back to the extraction point in time because they are too busy scoring some extra points on the other side of the map or dying although this matters less if everyone is level 20 already.

I must stress that i have had the pleasure of playing with some very talented Vanguards who do work with the group and when played well they are a real asset.

This.

It's a ALOT harder to win rounds if Captain Charge-a-Lot jumps into the midst of 4 assault troopers, 2 geth hunters and a pyro, or a Brute-Banshee combo, to be immediately killed and cost us an extra gun and pair of hands for the rest of the round, cause no way anyone's jumping in that mess to revive him/her and surviving.

[Hyrist]

Time to break some myths.

I'm going to assume you're referring to Human or Drell for these complaints. Asari have Stasis so you have no room to complain there.

- I rarely see a Vanguard help with objectives.

I'm going to be frank. There's almost nothing a Vanguard can do to help if you're ALREADY at the objective. If they set around, they're stuck doing limited fire support and nothing else. The best a Vanguard can do is get a team to/from objective points and block off a flank for you. However, even if they are out "Getting Points" as you are complaining, they're most likely preventing an entire squad of enemies from getting to you. As long as the Vanguard remains alive, they're an asset in this case.

- Most Vanguards appear to not know where the revive a fallen squad member button is.
A Vanguard who pauses to revive someone is vulnerable more so than most other classes.

If I zip to you and I see that you're surrounded by enemies (funny that you accuse Vanguards of this like they're the ONLY ones.) I'm not going to kill myself reviving you. I'm going to kill or distract everything around your body in hopes some fool takes the opportunity to do so. If I see it's safe enough to spare the seconds to revive you, THEN I'll stoop down, but not before. I expect nothing less of my allies either.

- They die a lot, usually at the other end of the map surrounded by enemies.
If I die alone, it's because nobody followed me. I hate to sound corny, but Vanguards lead, you follow.

It sounds corny and selfish, but the tactic works. It keeps the squad on the move and on the offensive, instead of getting buckled down and harassed by grenades or overwhelmed by mass monsters.

Get the Vanguard to be your pathmaker and stay by him. Let him do his job and he will be your cover, as opposed to sitting and hiding in cover.

As far as dieing alot, in higher difficulties, a lot of classes die alot. Only difference is your tank (what a Vanguard is) will die a lot faster if you don't support him. Same concept as an MMO.

- More often than not they fail to make it back to the extraction point in time because they are too busy scoring some extra points on the other side of the map or dying although this matters less if everyone is level 20 already.

Calling BS on this. I die more on the extraction point because nobody's focus firing Brutes, Banshees and other heavy hitters when I'm stuck having to fight in limited mobility, and I can't maneuver.

Not being at the extraction point seems to be an issue for all classes, though there's nothing wrong with trying to thin out the numbers rushing that zone.


All and all Vanguards get a bad wrap for following exactly what their class is supposed to do. There was a reason why Bioware wrote an article on it. It doesn't play by the typical TPS rules, and to play well with one, you also have to not play by the typical TPS rules. Otherwise you get these polarizing complaints of "The Vanguard keeps stealing my kills/The Vanguard Dies too often."

These complaints kinda prove that you don't know how to play with one.

[Lord Demura]

Hyrist wrote...
- They die a lot, usually at the other end of the map surrounded by enemies.
If I die alone, it's because nobody followed me. I hate to sound corny, but Vanguards lead, you follow.

I agree with almost everything else in your post, except this. I disagree that Vanguards are set-and-designated leaders.

It's a team effort - everyone works together on equal footing... There is no set leader. This tactic completely outs snipers, for example. Mobile teams work, but not every time in every situation.

[Ice Cold J]

Hyrist wrote...

Time to break some myths.

- I rarely see a Vanguard help with objectives.

I'm going to be frank. There's almost nothing a Vanguard can do to help if you're ALREADY at the objective. If they set around, they're stuck doing limited fire support and nothing else. The best a Vanguard can do is get a team to/from objective points and block off a flank for you. However, even if they are out "Getting Points" as you are complaining, they're most likely preventing an entire squad of enemies from getting to you. As long as the Vanguard remains alive, they're an asset in this case.

If there's an up load or hack, get there, get to cover, and provide close range support. You probably have a shotgun, so get to work with that and Nova on the Geth Hunters, Pyros, et. al, fill-in-the-blank enemy. Once that's over, charge out and continue to kick ass.

If it's a "X device," you can sometimes get there faster than teammates due to biotic charge. Faster time means more creds and less time wasted on the devices and more on finishing off enemies. If not, again, cover teamates who are.

If it's eliminate targets, well, you've got the green light as long as you don't dive into a pack of 30 enemies.

- Most Vanguards appear to not know where the revive a fallen squad member button is.
A Vanguard who pauses to revive someone is vulnerable more so than most other classes.

If I zip to you and I see that you're surrounded by enemies (funny that you accuse Vanguards of this like they're the ONLY ones.) I'm not going to kill myself reviving you. I'm going to kill or distract everything around your body in hopes some fool takes the opportunity to do so. If I see it's safe enough to spare the seconds to revive you, THEN I'll stoop down, but not before. I expect nothing less of my allies either.

Why are they more vulnerable than other classes? As a vanguard, I put a lot of points into fitness for the melee and health boost. Why are vanguards p*$$!es in this regard? (Not my opinion, but you're saying they're more vulnerable)

- They die a lot, usually at the other end of the map surrounded by enemies.
If I die alone, it's because nobody followed me. I hate to sound corny, but Vanguards lead, you follow.

It sounds corny and selfish, but the tactic works. It keeps the squad on the move and on the offensive, instead of getting buckled down and harassed by grenades or overwhelmed by mass monsters.

Get the Vanguard to be your pathmaker and stay by him. Let him do his job and he will be your cover, as opposed to sitting and hiding in cover.

As far as dieing alot, in higher difficulties, a lot of classes die alot. Only difference is your tank (what a Vanguard is) will die a lot faster if you don't support him. Same concept as an MMO.

Kinda hard to follow when I can't biotically teleport 100 yards away.

There's this new thing called tactics. Holding position, flanking, support.

Yes, the vanguard is a strong character, offensive-minded, but if no one knows what he/she's going to do, they can't support very well. It's all just guess work. What target are you charging? What should I focus on? What are YOU going to attack after?

If your vanguard has a mic, problem solved. Other than that, it's all an intergalactic crap shoot.

- More often than not they fail to make it back to the extraction point in time because they are too busy scoring some extra points on the other side of the map or dying although this matters less if everyone is level 20 already.

Calling BS on this. I die more on the extraction point because nobody's focus firing Brutes, Banshees and other heavy hitters when I'm stuck having to fight in limited mobility, and I can't maneuver.

Not being at the extraction point seems to be an issue for all classes, though there's nothing wrong with trying to thin out the numbers rushing that zone.


All and all Vanguards get a bad wrap for following exactly what their class is supposed to do. There was a reason why Bioware wrote an article on it. It doesn't play by the typical TPS rules, and to play well with one, you also have to not play by the typical TPS rules. Otherwise you get these polarizing complaints of "The Vanguard keeps stealing my kills/The Vanguard Dies too often."

These complaints kinda prove that you don't know how to play with one.

1. As far as "limited mobility" goes, you can still dodge and roll like everyone else and I don't hear people complaining about that. Just because your charge is now reduced to a slightly overextended shoulder tackle doesn't mean you're a krogan or turian with no rolling ability.

2. These complaints are also indicative of too many people thinking they know HOW to play as a vanguard and failing miserably. I'm not saying you do, I've never played with you, but I've seen too many people walk into a match and just try to charge/nova their way through and wind up dying nearly instantly. Usually, they are also the first to quit if they are not the leading scorers or have to wait more than 2 minutes for teammates to finish a round that they died in.

[NaimaRamirez]

I hate vanguards for continually messing up my headshots.
Oh, and also for costing me so many full extraction bonuses.

Modifié par NaimaRamirez, 18 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[tvih]

Vanguard is my favorite class, and it's what I play in single player. Honestly, I don't think I could've even pulled off London with any other class (on Hardcore), being able to "insta-heal" with Charge was so crucial.

In multiplayer the biggest problem from the Vanguard's viewpoint is that especially in Silver and Gold (not that I've ever tried gold yet) you get so many armored and shielded enemies, and have very little to counter them. Nova does some damage, but leaves you very vulnerable - therefore you can't use it all the time (or even most of the time).

The second-biggest problem is, of course, the "Vanguard bug" that is annoying as hell - that is, the one where you first start rubberbanding and glitching, then most likely end up stuck outside the map.

Third thing is that it requires some self-restraint to play, so that you don't end up too far from teammates and/or get killed all the time. I'm getting the hang of it by now.

If I could unlock Asari Vanguard, I could at least cause some Biotic Explosion of my own with Stasis + Charge combos... but then I would lose Nova, of course. Meh!

As far as the whole killstealing thing... is it really that different that a Vanguard charges the enemy, as compared to someone shooting it? The latter happens all the time, after all, especially if I'm trying to finish something off with melee. I as Vanguard often even charge just to recharge my shields, rather than for the kill itself. Certainly more useful for me to charge in that case than for someone to get their precious kill (unless of course they're doing a heavy melee for the damage buff or something).

Also, I could just as well say that Adepts etc are stealing my kills by placing Warps etc on targets that I Charge/Nova, because they are the ones to get credit for the Biotic Explosion

[GracefulChicken]

Easy way to avoid all the killstealing complaints (even though they're auto-invalid because this is co-op, but), if you see your team mate working on some enemy, and they seem fine, especially single or 2 or 3 enemies, let them be. That's what I tend to do on my vanguard. I might charge once, nova to lower their shields, then charge another target for barriers back and move on. I helped them, they get their precious kills, I move on to larger groups that require more suppression and are more effective uses of my skillset. An engineer with neural shock and chain overload can literally walk behind an adept/vanguard duo and spam overload and take care of anything left over in a few shocks. 

And a good Vanguard will be following an Adept or a well played Sentinel, imo... not the other way around. The adept/sent will be warping or stasis bubbling key targets, and the vanguard charges/novas to detonate, mops up the big targets, and moves on to another large cluster with big mobs with the Adept/sent. Let the Infiltrators, Engineers, etc finish the kills now that you've lowered their defenses and probably most of their HP.

When I'm not on my Vanguard, I see other Vanguards (good ones, of course) as assets. I might not see them most of the match if theyre doing their job since they won't need reviving, but I know the second I'm swamped, that Vanguard will be there bailing me out and taking most of the heat off of me. Or clearing that objective so the cloaked infiltrator can swoop in and not get slaughtered when he comes out of cloak half-way through deactivation.

This is mostly on higher difficulties. On bronze, vanguards and everyone else can do whatever they want, anyone half competent will be fine playing wildly.

Modifié par GracefulChicken, 18 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[Hyrist]

NaimaRamirez wrote...

I hate vanguards for continually messing up my headshots.
Oh, and also for costing me so many full extraction bonuses.

You don't need to do headshots. Settle for body shots.

As far as Ice's comments. I'm debating whether or not to take him seriously..

For example:

Why are they more vulnerable than other classes?

Really? Do you even play all the classes?

Zero distraction, crowd control is completely limited on being fully active (meaning, not pausing to revive someone.) Nor any damage reduction.

Fitness is pointless. You can preach on how you have fitness all maxed out, but that is one skill that is almost uniform across the board.

What we do have, in abundance, is distraction. Abilities that apply offensive pressure on the enemy. What we don't have, is the ability to take an abundance of damage sitting still, or distract the enemies while doing something else.

Infiltrators, Engineers, Adepts and Sentinels are all better at reviving than a Vanguard is.  Only exception is Asari Vanguards who can Stasis field.

If your vanguard has a mic, problem solved. Other than that, it's all an intergalactic crap shoot.

That has nothing to do with vanguard and everything to do with the lack of a Mic. I have a mic, at all times, and still I wind up with players that can't co-ordinate if their life depended on them. Trying to scapegoat this issue on Vanguards is pathetic.

The only situations in which Vanguards are hard to follow is when they turn corners.(Something a Vanguard should be wary of before charging.) Sure, it takes you time to catch up with them when they travel long distance, but nothing prevents you from launching powers after them, or offering support fire while you close in on the distance.

As far as your preching about 'tactics'  - most of them amount to huddeling down into what you view as the most defendable area and praying it'll save you. Cerberus - the only group we could play against in the Demo, can be fought like that. Trying that with the Geth can cause trouble if you don't have the right powers, and it's outright worthless against the Reaper forces. Each faction, and more importantly, each class combination, works together in different ways.

It just ticks me off how people scapegoat Vanguards. They're not your normal set up, but that dosen't make them inheritantly bad. Again, high risk, high reward. I've had more issues with other classes not doing enough, vs a Vanguard who wipes the floor clean with the area, then gets caught in a bad way and dies.

I seriously hope this basless hate starts setteling down as more people get aquainted with the game, and the class.

[BraveLToaster]

Lord Demura wrote...

Hyrist wrote...
- They die a lot, usually at the other end of the map surrounded by enemies.
If I die alone, it's because nobody followed me. I hate to sound corny, but Vanguards lead, you follow.

I agree with almost everything else in your post, except this. I disagree that Vanguards are set-and-designated leaders.

It's a team effort - everyone works together on equal footing... There is no set leader. This tactic completely outs snipers, for example. Mobile teams work, but not every time in every situation.

I disagree with more than just that, but that point made me laugh.

[815Sox]

The worst is when you see a lower level vanguard immediately run and post up where the spawn point usually is. 99 percent of the time you know they are going to totally suck. They are down in two minutes... more often then not I am not going to expose my doughy ass to go revive you. If they start whining then it is the worse.

A well played vanguard can be great. I recently played with a very good one, I was setting up stasis bubbles and he was setting them off... we did some damage.

Also, I noticed someone said they do not like stasis? I do not understand how the heck that is possible. I cannot count the number of times I have saved a teammate with stasis... half of the time they have no idea either.

I play with several characters but I have never once tried a vanguard.

Its also funny when a Vanguard or Krogan run up to a phantom and try to melee it. That doesn't work very often. I had a game today where the Krogan kept trying it over and over again. He said it was one of his first games on silver... I thought "you don't say". 

Modifié par 815Sox, 18 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[kingtrouble]

Hyrist wrote...

Why are they more vulnerable than other classes?

Fitness is pointless. You can preach on how you have fitness all maxed out, but that is one skill that is almost uniform across the board. .

I laughed at this point. I'm sorry but for human vanguards, higher barriers = more damage. And in any case having higher barriers as a front line unit is key since... You know.... Your taking a decent chunk of damage. Also for vanguards they are invul when charging to everything other than rockets and turrets, this invul window can be further extended if your using charge-nova combo. Arguably vanguards are one of the least vulnerable class IF they aren't stupid and know how to read the situation. 

[815Sox]

However, I will say that a good vanguard is excellent for reviving and also deactivate missions. I hope over time average joe vanguard learns how to play. I have to say I have noticed less of them recently. They were all over the place in the demo.

[815Sox]

Count Dante wrote...


No class can keep 5 baddies busy and live like a Vanguard.

You handle the Pyros, Banshees, and Mechs until your buddies can help.

Human Engineers can deploy a combat drone from the other side of the map, even if they cannot see the enemy.  A Salarian Engineer can drop a decoy that shocks the enemy and then explodes. Most Vanguards that charge into a group with an Atlas or Banshee get dropped quick. Pyros seem to destroy most Vanguards.

I think the problem with many Vanguards are they are trying to play for first place. That doesn't help in ME multiplayer. The game tries its hardest to force you to play a team style. This leads Vanguards towards doing stupid things, like charging headfirst into a spawn point on the other side of the map.

Also, on maps like firebase giant, a Vanguard setting himself up at one spawn points tends to cause the enemies to spawn right into the communication tower... where the rest of the team is starting out.

[Zaydin]

I have a vanguard, and I usually do fairly well at avoiding dying.

That said, I have seen bad Vanguards. Ones that never charge, for example, or have a sniper rifle, or charge everything regardless of what it is and how many enemies are around it. Or they charge into something on the other side of the map, out of range of the rest of the team should they go down, with most of the spawns between us and them.

Modifié par Zaydin, 18 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Ice Cold J]

Hyrist wrote...

NaimaRamirez wrote...

I hate vanguards for continually messing up my headshots.
Oh, and also for costing me so many full extraction bonuses.

You don't need to do headshots. Settle for body shots.

As far as Ice's comments. I'm debating whether or not to take him seriously..

For example:

Why are they more vulnerable than other classes?

Really? Do you even play all the classes?

Zero distraction, crowd control is completely limited on being fully active (meaning, not pausing to revive someone.) Nor any damage reduction.

Fitness is pointless. You can preach on how you have fitness all maxed out, but that is one skill that is almost uniform across the board.

What we do have, in abundance, is distraction. Abilities that apply offensive pressure on the enemy. What we don't have, is the ability to take an abundance of damage sitting still, or distract the enemies while doing something else.

Infiltrators, Engineers, Adepts and Sentinels are all better at reviving than a Vanguard is.  Only exception is Asari Vanguards who can Stasis field.

If your vanguard has a mic, problem solved. Other than that, it's all an intergalactic crap shoot.

That has nothing to do with vanguard and everything to do with the lack of a Mic. I have a mic, at all times, and still I wind up with players that can't co-ordinate if their life depended on them. Trying to scapegoat this issue on Vanguards is pathetic.

The only situations in which Vanguards are hard to follow is when they turn corners.(Something a Vanguard should be wary of before charging.) Sure, it takes you time to catch up with them when they travel long distance, but nothing prevents you from launching powers after them, or offering support fire while you close in on the distance.

As far as your preching about 'tactics'  - most of them amount to huddeling down into what you view as the most defendable area and praying it'll save you. Cerberus - the only group we could play against in the Demo, can be fought like that. Trying that with the Geth can cause trouble if you don't have the right powers, and it's outright worthless against the Reaper forces. Each faction, and more importantly, each class combination, works together in different ways.

It just ticks me off how people scapegoat Vanguards. They're not your normal set up, but that dosen't make them inheritantly bad. Again, high risk, high reward. I've had more issues with other classes not doing enough, vs a Vanguard who wipes the floor clean with the area, then gets caught in a bad way and dies.

I seriously hope this basless hate starts setteling down as more people get aquainted with the game, and the class.

Dude, if YOU play vanguard well, that's one thing. But there are WAAYYY too many people out there who don't. I really don't see how anyone could argue that.

You yourself called vanguards "tanks," so how can you then argue that they're more vulnerable/weaker than other classes?

There's a lot more to tactics than getting into cover and sitting there. And if your teammates are inept, well then, that's not the vanguard's fault, now is it?

Yes. I play EVERY class. Even the ones I HATE for the sake of team balance. I've got a great feel for all of them. When I play as a vanguard, things go very smoothly, witht he occasional hiccup. When about 90% of the other vanguards I've met out there play, they die almost every round, in poor position, and then quit if we can't get to them to revive them.

So, maybe YOU play vanguard well, but there are FAR too many people out there who don't.

[guitarsniper]

I play an Asariguard most of the time, and I feel like that's a totally different playstyle. I only use charge in a limited number of circumstances. Most of the time it's Stasis Field-->Run up and disciple headshot. It tends to work pretty well for me, and then when things that have more armor show up I stay closer to my teammates who are better equipped to deal with that kind of thing. The other thing that vanguards are really good at is getting around behind enemies who are coming up on the squad, which is definitely something I've done. So if you have someone who's playing a vanguard badly, hop on voicechat and explain to them what they should be doing. And don't be a dick about it.

[TheBandit554]

Yes, because I play on PC I can't have a million things going on at once. And vanguards (the ones who don't play smart, only cheap) are lag inducers. It really ticks me off because a large amount of them will just have a pistol or submachine gun and then just charge then nova, charge then nova constantly and not even play the damn game. There is no way that is fun for either party. Thyen when it comes to things like brutes, banshees, or an atlas they have no chance. Plus, they steal kills constantly, I'll just be shooting or healing a squadmate and I'll see them zip around the map shockwaving everything. It's untterly cheap, something should be nerfed about their powers

[Creston918]

It's hard to say, really. I've played with some really good vanguards, and they make life a whole lot easier for everyone else.

Yes, they DO die. They're charging into the thick of things, every now and then something's going to go wrong. Try to save them if you can, and if you can't, they'll have to wait till the end of the round.

That said, I do agree there's too many Vanguards out there that aren't any good at it and they just become a liability. Not much you can do about it, sadly. I had two of those clowns in a game last night, and after they both dropped like flies on level 3 (Bronze, no less), they both quit. Leaving me and one guy to finish the game. (We wiped on lvl 10.)

That said, a level 1 (and N7 level 1) vanguard joined my game earlier, and I was like "Oh, bloody great..."
But, you know, I let the guy stay, since we were all level 1 at one point, and he was actually a really good player. He charged smartly, ressed companions, and he died a total of 2 or 3 times in the whole game.

Like with everything else, it's just the quality of the player.

[Exicuren]

I think that the shouldn't charge against guardians, saw a lot of vanguards do that with a predictable fail, or againts brutes, banshees, titans, an geth primes in a reckless way, most the time i saw vanguards charge like that i prepare myself to aid them because the outcome is eihter funny or agravating depending the situation and the enemy, personally, charging againts a guardian is the most funny situation, they charge and use nova, when nothing happesn, they charge again and use nova again like there's no tomorrow until the guardian feds up and hits them to the death.

[Howling Black Dog]

Things you should know:

One: To vanguards, mobility and action are life. Stillness is death. If you are a human vanguard and you are NOT charging and using nova, your probably going to die. Its the invincibility frames, shield reset, and damage synergy that keeps you alive. Do not be angry if your vanguard charges into a mess of enemies, as long as he starts chaining nova and charge, he should be fine. Only heavies like the banshee and geth prime give this tactic problems, the former because of a very sensitive 1hko power, and the later's ability to stop all power use with it's main attack. Judge a vanguard on his ability to do this well.

Two: Vanguards are crap when doing non-kill objectives, and that goes double for human vanguards. Because we are so reliant on our charge and close range powers to be effective, we have to leave objectives to operate at peak efficiency. It also means that we generally will NOT be using good weapons, because we want to stay light and spam powers as fast as possible (again, this goes double for humans, since they literally live or die on how fast they can charge after nova). Do not get upset of a vanguard charges of during an objective. It is quite literally the only way they can help, and the piles of bodies they leave in their wake are all enemies that wont be piling up on your defenses.

Three: You can spot a bad vanguard a few ways. First, if its a human vanguard and they are using a heavy weapon or two weapons, they are probably doing it wrong. Even if it is a drell or asari, you never want to see more than one weapon. Second, if they are consistently standing still, not charging, or doing "things that are dumb no matter who you are" like charging into three banshees or trying to revive a grenade. Third, not supporting your teammates. Now this one is a bit tricky, because if a vanguard is rampaging around the battlefield like a deranged pinball, that IS supporting the team. Hes killing guys, drawing fire from you, and generally making himself the biggest target on the field (and letting the rest of the team do as they please). But if a vanguard isn't taking the chance to trigger biotic explosions, revive teammates when the coast is clear, or slaughtering enemies moving to flank the artillery of the group, then you should probably keep an eye on him. As a vanguard, it is easy to get lost in the flow of combat, desperately trying to stay alive from one moment to the next, always looking for the next target to charge. If you have a mike, take a moment to warn them if they are getting too far from the group or if you need help. 8 or 9 times out of ten, they will come sprinting back to help.

Keep in mind, every class has its bad players. The ones who play vanguard are just more obvious than most, since this class takes a ton of finesse and spacial awareness to play (as well as simply not functioning on the same rules as most typical TPS classes). A good vanguard is going to typically be at the top of the kill chart and depending on you to take care of objectives and provide supporting fire. Help them out and they will be a huge asset to the team.

Modifié par Howling Black Dog, 19 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[Nomad1888]

My brother plays Vanguard. When I use my human Infiltrator, he charges forward and smashes things while I provide overwatch and we compete for kills. We kill everything. When I use my Krogan solider, we both charge forward smashing everything and competeing for melee kills. We kill everything. This works because we're both good.

However, when I'm stuck with other Vanguards its usually me shooting things and having to revive them once every round. I got stuck with a team of vanguards that all died on wave 10 trying to punch an Atlas and I had to finish it all by myself. Lame. Rarely though, there are some really good Vanguards. The thing I've notice with that class though is that you are either really good, or really crappy. There are no average Vanguard players.

[fafnir magnus]

any class can and will be played well by a person who is well-informed by practice on how to optimize ability combinations and weapon usage. Bad players will always be bad regardless of their class, but can be coralled if you make some idiot-proof situations, like having them run as salarian engineer against the geth with an infiltrator baby sitting them

[Fatalashes]

the human vanguard is amazing as for the others there is not point. Spamming nova and charge to gain shields back we went through gold runs, 6 in a row, 2 vanguards and 2 infil. 19:37 being our fastest time. its all about the players considering ill agree with the dumb level 7 vanguard's trying to solo Primes and such.......work with your team or find better players its not the classes that suck its players

[DnVill]

It's only annoying when they charge everything then die and expect everyone else to rush to his aide.

The good ones are useful for crowd control. I don't really mind if they kill everything. I figure at the end its team XP and cash... ANyone can confirm this?

I get lazy sometimes and just stand around let them do all the work if they want to.

Modifié par DnVill, 19 mars 2012 - 06:34 .