60 réponses à ce sujet

[fro7k]

Duncan--what a bastard.  He imposes the draft on people and then murders them if they try to back out of it.  What gives him the right?  I wouldn't mention anyone but PC's but the game clearly seems to expect you to like him or accept his rationalisations for his behaviour as valid (since there are few dialog options to protest it).

I couldn't like Alistair because of his admiration for Duncan, so he is out.

Morrigan is just evil, she actually approves when, for instance, you let Kitty possess that girl, and disapproves if you kill Kitty instead.  So she isn't merely against helping people, she likes people to suffer.

Another weird thing I'd like to interject is that whether you help, or help and then murder that merchant who is charging more than people can afford, Alistair and Morrigan disapprove/approve exactly to the same degree, as if they were equal acts!

Leliana--don't know about her yet, she seems straightforward enough but there's probably a bombshell waiting around the corner.

Sten--murderer, with no excuse whatever.  I don't find his general personality as offensive as some people, though.  I use him in my party because, with a maxed approval rating now he hits like a ton of bricks, and I can use the red dragon armour fairly early.

Shale--not played around with him much and might not this playthrough, since I hear he makes the game kinda easy (I'm playing through on hard on my first playthrough and the game is "just right", although I'm abstaining from picking some of my talents for several levels until I gather a few talent points to test things out with, which makes things a bit more difficult).

Dog--if it weren't for man's best friend there would be noone to like, here.  I called mine "Chops".  I often don't bring him along though because it's one less opportunity for banter.  They should have rebalanced the game so that a party of six would be suitable.

[Herr Uhl]

How long have you came thus far?



What about Oghren, Wynne and Zevran? They could be your party.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Talk to them more. They're more complicated than you make them to be.

[fro7k]

Complexity wouldn't wash out the stains I've mentioned.



Done Ostagar, everything I could find in Lothering, a bit of the Brecilian forest (I left to level up some because I'm getting really cross that the "persuade" option fails to work so often, and want to buy some more of the coercion skill), been to the lake Calenhad docks, completed Honnleath and completed Warden's Keep (didn't even realise it was Warden's Keep until after I had done it, since it only refered to itself as Soldier's Keep). I've been trying to first go to the places that look least connected to the main plot (as I did in Baldur's Gate), but there are precious few of them.

[Herr Uhl]

The fact that Sten has no excuse is an important part of his character. He does not want you to free him since he accepts that he deserves death.



The kitty thing is that she (Morrigan) does not want you to risk your very important lives to save one girl from possession. She isn't evil (hate that word), she doesn't want to take unnecessary risks.

[MS3825]

Funny... I like everyone so far.

Duncan: He is a GREY Warden, not WHITE Warden. To be "grey" is to commit both evil and good acts in balance for your goal. What gives him the right? They agreed to walk a path, whatever the consequences. If he had emotional control maybe we would have a third GW and 1 more ally for our party. We don't know if the potion would have killed him.

Morrigan: "Evil" is subjective not objective. That means it's merely an opinion.
What about the demons? They are far more pure than any human is. The only thing they want is understanding. I call that noble and good.

Sten - I didn't have the persuasion to get him sadly. I'll comment anyway: Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. "Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b****?" (Quote from "Chapelle Show")

Shale - Hilarious and interesting from an intelligent standpoint. Talk to him and lead him around a while - he sees things from a very unique point of view.

Dog: He's a dog... I'd have preffered a "Big Cat" (classification of Filidae that tigers and lions reside) but I like animals and anything not human over a human any day. Plus he says volumes merely with sounds.


More on "evil": Why is it anyone with any emotional control and ability to use logic is branded "evil"?

Modifié par MS3825, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:04 .

[Herr Uhl]

MS3825 wrote...

Sten - I didn't have the persuasion to get him sadly. I'll comment anyway: Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. "Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b****?" (Quote from "Chapelle Show")

You can easily pick the lock to his cage though. I remember doing that.

[MS3825]

I don't think I understood all the game mechanics then, like switching control of characters, plus it was quite late by the time I finished installing the game after I got it.

[suzanne536]

No one said this story was a happy story. Last time I checked it was quite dark and full of intrique. Allister has a lot more depth to him than just liking Duncan. As your game unfolds you find out more clues to Duncan and the Grey Wardens.



The poor sweet fool that Duncan killed knew what he was getting in to, and he backed out at the last minute. Death was his choice. The potion probably would have killed him anyways.

[fro7k]

Duncan: He is a GREY Warden, not WHITE Warden. To be "grey" is to commit both evil and good acts in balance for your goal. What gives him the right? They agreed to walk a path, whatever the consequences. If he had emotional control maybe we would have a third GW and 1 more ally for our party. We don't know if the potion would have killed him.

The "what gives him the right?" was a rhetorical question.  He has no right to dispose of the lives of others when they fail to pursue his goals.  That's the behaviour of a tyrant.

Morrigan: "Evil" is subjective not objective. That means it's merely an opinion.

No, an opinion is a normative statement, i.e. it entails value-judgements.  Subjective is an arbitrary statement, i.e. it has no grounds for being one way or another.  If a word is subjective it has no meaning.  Evil is the ultimate species of the false, of acting against the nature of the agent that acts.  The fact that some people attach any meaning they please to the word doesn't mean that it's a false concept, it is just a failure of those can't arrive at proper definitions.

What about the demons? They are far more pure than any human is. The only thing they want is understanding. I call that noble and good.

Why?

More on "evil": Why is it anyone with any emotional control and ability to use logic is branded "evil"?

Branded by whom?

[fro7k]

suzanne536 wrote...

No one said this story was a happy story. Last time I checked it was quite dark and full of intrique. Allister has a lot more depth to him than just liking Duncan. As your game unfolds you find out more clues to Duncan and the Grey Wardens.

It doesn't need to be a happy story, but there does need to be light in the darkness.  Having merely different degrees of scoundrels is boring.

The poor sweet fool that Duncan killed knew what he was getting in to, and he backed out at the last minute. Death was his choice. The potion probably would have killed him anyways.

No, he was not allowed to back out from the beginning.  If he tried to back out at the very start Duncan would have murdered him then.

[Poubo]

oh god not another one of these threads...

[fro7k]

Poubo wrote...

oh god not another one of these threads...

Of what threads?

[Herr Uhl]

fro7k wrote...

Poubo wrote...

oh god not another one of these threads...

Of what threads?

They occur pretty often. I like/hate/love character topics.

[GoldenusG]

Wynne and Al, are both pretty likeable, with no dark looming secrets in their pasts... There are secrets, but no 'I used to go out and barbeque small children to feed to beggers' type secrets.



I find Shale to be a very likeable critter. As long as you accept that birds are evil, and need to be exterminated like the vermin they are, then you'll get along fine.



Ohgren, I didn't use much, just where it seemed appropriate for the storyline, and whilst he's not 'nice' as such, neither is he evil.



My first game, Dog never got taken for walks again after I hit Lothering. Not because I disliked using him, but because I wanted the dialogue with my companions.

[fro7k]

Now we just need someone to go around saying "Oh, no, not another one of those 'oh, no, not another one of those threads' posts!"

[Taerda]

Cultural perspective is hard to deal with especially when you deem one paradigm as paramount and all others as false.



If you dislike everyone you met so far, you are going to loathe Lilliana. She is materialistic (shoe fetish), she is ok with slavery as long as they are treated humanly, she has visions that are made up in her own mind to make her feel special, she used people in "the game" of politics, playing on their emotions and manipulating them to steal, murder and spy. Lilliana will put you in therapy for a decade if you try to romance her.



Heck, from what I read so far, you really won't like any characters you meet, except Anora. She should be someone you can deal with and relate very well to.



Anyways, good luck, and I hope you and Anora end up hitting it off in a F/F relationship so that you two can live in bliss together.

[Herr Uhl]

fro7k wrote...

Now we just need someone to go around saying "Oh, no, not another one of those 'oh, no, not another one of those threads' posts!"

Agreed, but you begged the question. Things tend to get silly here sometimes.

I found most of the characters to be more likeable the longer the game progresses. I really didn't expect to like Sten once I freed him, but he is now arguably my favorite NPC.

[Taerda]

GoldenusG wrote...

Wynne and Al, are both pretty likeable, with no dark looming secrets in their pasts... There are secrets, but no 'I used to go out and barbeque small children to feed to beggers' type secrets..

Wynne is an abomidation ... I'm pretty sure the OP will object to this, once he finds out the details.

[Shady314]

"what gives him the right?" 

Hilariously it's a literal RIGHT. The Right of Conscription forces you to be a Grey Warden or die. Jory tried to back out of being a Grey Warden.

Who gave the Grey Wardens this right? Every legal organization on Thedas.

[slackbheep]

Just how desperate do you believe the situation is? I think that will color your idea of many characters. Duncan would have burned orphanages to the ground to stop the Blight, he's an old man with a streak of bitter who has spent the better part of his life fighting darkspawn. Alistair sees Duncan as a father figure, and knew him before the situation was so desperate. Morrigan can be seen as amoral, though she just seems to prefer the easiest path and is quite happy forgetting small details in favor of the big picture.



Sten doesn't care about your forgiveness, He's there to fight. Shale has a great deal of personality and is well implemented with the rest of the game. Also Dog does take part in party banter. As for Leliana, I kinda like the character but I find her to be one of the MORE immoral characters in the game, after delving into her personality. Get Oghren, he's a bloody riot.

[Herr Uhl]

Shady314 wrote...

"what gives him the right?" 

Hilariously it's a literal RIGHT. The Right of Conscription forces you to be a Grey Warden or die. Jory tried to back out of being a Grey Warden.

Who gave the Grey Wardens this right? Every legal organization on Thedas.

Well, they didn't have it in Ferelden between Wardens Keep and Maric, so not every country/tribe has to have it.

[Shady314]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Shady314 wrote...

"what gives him the right?" 

Hilariously it's a literal RIGHT. The Right of Conscription forces you to be a Grey Warden or die. Jory tried to back out of being a Grey Warden.

Who gave the Grey Wardens this right? Every legal organization on Thedas.

Well, they didn't have it in Ferelden between Wardens Keep and Maric, so not every country/tribe has to have it.

I didn't speak in past tense. I spoke in present tense. I never claimed anyone HAD to have it. So what's your point? Do you know of any current countries that have banned the Wardens?

Modifié par Shady314, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:37 .

[mopotter]

suzanne536 wrote...

No one said this story was a happy story. Last time I checked it was quite dark and full of intrique. Allister has a lot more depth to him than just liking Duncan. As your game unfolds you find out more clues to Duncan and the Grey Wardens.

The poor sweet fool that Duncan killed knew what he was getting in to, and he backed out at the last minute. Death was his choice. The potion probably would have killed him anyways.

I read the books, and I'm sure  that had a part in my feelings for Duncan.  He was a thief and possibly an assasin in his younger days.  One of his jobs in the book is to be willing to kill Merrick down in the deep roads.  I had no problem seeing him kill the guy at the beginning.  It was necessary.

I adore Allister.  He always makes me laugh, like my husband, and I love the conversations the other characters have with him.  I could listen to him recite the dictionary and be perfectly happy.  Actually I like all of their voices.

I also like dog of many names, he brought me a very nice bottle of wine in one of his find me things outings.  Of course he also brought me a pair of dirty undies, but it's the thought that counts.

Morrigan - my husband calls her names, but I felt sorry for her and actually liked her.  I even like her sense of humor sometimes and I like her voice. 
Wyne is one of my favorites.   She asked Allister about the birds and bees.  :happy:  I usually take her with me.

Leliana is ok.  I take her wih me and she is very sweet. 

Sten - well he likes cookies.  How can you not like a guy who likes cookies, maybe like isn't the right word.  He's from a different kind of society and he knows what he did was wrong.  He was willing to stay and die untill you offer him the chance to die fighting.  Maybe not likeable but still interesting.

Zevron - I've killed him once and kept him in the party once.  I can't say I really care about him one way or the other.  I'll have to try and get to know him better in a future game.

Oghren is the only one who grates on my nerves.  

The voice acting is wonderful and the conversations between everyone is great.  I'd say there are definately some likeable characters, at least for me. 

[Herr Uhl]

Shady314 wrote...

I didn't speak in past tense. I spoke in present tense. I never claimed anyone HAD to have it. So what's your point? Do you know of any current countries that have banned the Wardens?

No, do you know about the standing of the wardens in any other countries than Anderfells, Ferelden and Orlais?