134 réponses à ce sujet

[demireamer]

sry about the class action thing, i only said it as a joke. people are only bugging you about this cuz we love that game and feel kinda cheated by the toolkit only beening give to the pc , when the add clearly shows the ps3 and 360 copies of the game and never says the tool set was PC only







to me at lest the idea of user made content was a key selling point. i paid more for a console cuz my pc isnt up to date and can not handle DA:O,



the console player paid more for your game (i know you probly dont see that money but still) and are get much less from it... i think you all can see how we are feeling left out and upset about this

[demireamer]

Lady_Intimidator wrote...

maxinstuff wrote...
 just that you wouldn't have to worry about making it controller friendly. 

I for one would like it to be controller friendly...cause the controller is wifi.. and I dont have a keyboard and mouse friendly gaming area.....

But either way, its cool for me.

i got a wireless key bord and mouse for my ps3 works out nicly cost me like $20

[airforcefalco]

I also wanted to apologize about the class action thing. At the time, I just got off the phone with the car dealer i bought my van through, and long story short, they are threatening to take my car back because the state of Montana wont let me register it there even though I'm a resident of the state and pay taxes and vote there. I'm in the military and stationed now in Florida and Montana thinks I'm trying to scam them for some reason so now i have to talk to elected officials so that I can take care of this. Some reason my driver's license, voter registration card, and tax forms are not enough to prove my residency to the great people at the title and registration in Montana.



I do apologize for venting a little and jumping on the class action bus.



As it was pointed out, there is a video showing the toolkit being advertised and no mention to it being only PC. We pay more for the game but yet we get less features.

[Jab0r]

Jab0r, in terms of ram, remember that the ps3 uses ram much more efficiently than a pc.

I feel I should respond to this.
No matter how efficiently you use RAM, there is no way to fit a gigabyte of a data into half a gigabyte of RAM without serious compression, which would kill performance to the point where you're almost better off paging for every single operation anyway.
It doesn't matter that the PS3 doesn't have a heavyweight operating system occupying memory, because the toolset itself is filling that space.

As a quick example, I open up the toolset and already it's allocated and is using 289 meg of RAM. That's more general-purpose memory than the PS3 has in total (keeping in mind that half of the PS3's memory is reserved for graphics and graphics only). This has nothing to do with the platform - that's what the toolset itself requires. And as soon as we start actually touching resources, those have to be loaded into memory as well, which is just not feasible on such a tight system.

Modifié par Jab0r, 01 décembre 2009 - 05:05 .

[airforcefalco]

Jab0r you mean we cant use virtual memory?

[Jab0r]

Paging kills performance. With only 256 meg of usable RAM (remember that half of it is set aside as graphics memory and so is pretty much off-limits for most of the toolset), you'd likely not be able to fit both the resource you're using, and the local memory required for the particular tool you're using on it, in memory at the same time.

In other words, your hard disk would be churning away constantly, and you'd be talking about blocking for seconds for an operation as simple as panning the view around an area. When you start to actually manipulate stuff, it gets even worse.

If you want to see what it would be like, find a friend with the PC version of DA, and install the toolset on something with 512 meg of RAM. Or even 768 meg, if you want to compensate for what the OS takes up.

[airforcefalco]

I can play some intense games w/o blocking. You are telling me the toolkit is harder on the system than these games that are loaded off of a disk to the ram every time?

[lizardglenn]

The fact that Dragon Age Toolset is PC only was well known & widely talked about on the forums over a hell of a lot of time before release dont know why people insist that it would be easy for BioWare to make if it was a lot of work making a PC one

even if they can get the PC one to make console version Mods what are the chances of Sony & MS not wanting to charge you to deliver them



the Dragon Age Toolset needs several pieces of third-party software to function like an operating system

* DirectX 9.0c

* Visual C Runtime Library

* Microsoft SQL Server Express 2005 Edition

* Nvidia PhysX drivers

then you need extra things just to make the lightmapper work like Python 2.5.4

[airforcefalco]

lizardglenn

you forget that we have a USB drive on the consoles that we could easily plug a pen drive into.



Also i was wondering, i know you can install Linux on a PS3. That being said since it's an operating system, would a toolkit work on it? That way i have all the files via the PS3 game and the UI of an OS.

[demireamer]

lizardglenn games already have user made content that can be shared on ps3 (probly on 360 too) so you clam the sony and ms would stop this is BS, i dont get why people feel so great about there guesses.



and info on a fourm has nothing to do with how they advertised the game, 80%+ people who buy the game will more then likly never read a forum about it. in the add i post it clearly shows all 3 games, that fact is there add department effed up (im think this is probly EA more then Bioware)



they say they are thinking of porting some of the "better" mod witch make me happy cuz i realy had no plans to make levels i just wanted more content :-P, now if they want me to pay for these ports ill be pissed to all high hell, but think its an ok 1/2 way for the lie i just wish it wasnt planed to happen after they first make the toolset even better for the PC player who paid less and got more content

[Jab0r]

I can play some intense games w/o blocking. You are telling me the toolkit is harder on the system than these games that are loaded off of a disk to the ram every time?

Yes. Because games run with compiled and optimized resources, and the engine is designed to work within the constraints of the hardware. Also, it doesn't need to page anything out - if it needs to drop something from memory, it can just drop it and load it again when needed.

The toolset needs to work with the raw resources, which take up a lot more space, and it can't just drop anything - if it pages, it needs to write those pages out somewhere.

games already have user made content that can be shared on ps3 (probly on 360 too) so you clam the sony and ms would stop this is BS, i dont get why people feel so great about there guesses.

Can you explain to me why Valve is having so much trouble getting user-created content onto the 360 versions of L4D and TF2?

[maxinstuff]

Jab0r wrote...

Jab0r, in terms of ram, remember that the ps3 uses ram much more efficiently than a pc.

I feel I should respond to this.
No matter how efficiently you use RAM, there is no way to fit a gigabyte of a data into half a gigabyte of RAM without serious compression, which would kill performance to the point where you're almost better off paging for every single operation anyway.
It doesn't matter that the PS3 doesn't have a heavyweight operating system occupying memory, because the toolset itself is filling that space.

Thanks Jab0r - this could be a problem. I just had a look at the minimum specs of the PC version of the game and the minimum requirement (for vista users) is 1GB, and the recomended requirement is 4GB. Yet the game runs quite well on the Sony with 512 (or 256 depending how you look at it). This isnt the toolkit, I'm just saying that the amount of ram isnt a true indication of the PS3's capabilities.

[_Krikit_]

Chris Priestly wrote...

The Dragon Age Toolset comes with the PC version of the game, not the console versions. While we are ivestigating ways that created content may come to the console versions, the toolset is exclusive for the PC version.

Thats great hear. I really hope you guys get that implemented.

[Nwalya42]

airforcefalco wrote...

lizardglenn
you forget that we have a USB drive on the consoles that we could easily plug a pen drive into.

Also i was wondering, i know you can install Linux on a PS3. That being said since it's an operating system, would a toolkit work on it? That way i have all the files via the PS3 game and the UI of an OS.

I was under the impression that Sony had stopped allowing Linux to be installed on PS3s - meaning that Bioware could not distribute a linux version of the toolset without getting into trouble with Sony. Also - while Linux is an operating system, it differes greatly from Windows, with different system files etc. Also, running an operating system would further take away from the available RAM.

As for the required features:

* DirectX 9.0c

* Visual C Runtime Library

* Microsoft SQL Server Express 2005 Edition

* Nvidia PhysX drivers

3/4 of these are Microsoft products, and I'm not sure about the likelyhood of installing SQL server on a pen drive - I know it is possible to run some server processes of a pen drive (it is after all just external storage) but running SQL server of a pen drive would reduce the speed of the toolset further (USB isn't that fast) in addition to the RAM/paging problems.

My last thought - getting the toolset running on the PS3/360 is unlikely. However, the possibility of creating a compiler to convert the dazip modules into PS3/360 DLC is somewhat likely, IF the problem of differing game files is solved.

[Sferzar]

So question for anyone that knows, how did UT3 manage to do it? Did they do it via a converter or did they design the toolkit specially for the PS3? I've always wondered.

Modifié par Sferzar, 01 décembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[Nwalya42]

Sferzar wrote...

So question for anyone that knows, how did UT3 manage to do it? Did they do it via a converter or did they design the toolkit specially for the PS3? I've always wondered.

It sounds to me that Epic games (UT3 developer) designed the console game so that they could make mods work on it. The toolset is on the PC and you transfer the mods to your console - pressumably they made the game so that this would be easy to do.

[maxinstuff]

Nwalya42 wrote...

As for the required features:

* DirectX 9.0c

* Visual C Runtime Library

* Microsoft SQL Server Express 2005 Edition

* Nvidia PhysX drivers

3/4 of these are Microsoft products.....

And none of which are available on PS3 - yet the game itself runs fine. DirectX is the simplest example - the PC version of the game requires it to run, yet the PS3 doesn't even support DirectX - so how was the game itself made to run on the PS3?

[airforcefalco]

Devs come back!

[airforcefalco]

edit: double posted

Modifié par airforcefalco, 02 décembre 2009 - 01:55 .

[Nwalya42]

maxinstuff wrote...

Nwalya42 wrote...

As for the required features:

* DirectX 9.0c

* Visual C Runtime Library

* Microsoft SQL Server Express 2005 Edition

* Nvidia PhysX drivers

3/4 of these are Microsoft products.....

And none of which are available on PS3 - yet the game itself runs fine. DirectX is the simplest example - the PC version of the game requires it to run, yet the PS3 doesn't even support DirectX - so how was the game itself made to run on the PS3?

By using different alternatives - but that would require them to completely remake the toolset to do something it wasn't designed to do (run on the PS3). SQL server is not required for the game - I believe it is used to manage the game files (correct me if I'm wrong) and the resources for the toolset. Sony has their own version on PhysX/Direct X which developers have to convert their games to work on. My guess for Visual C is that that is the language the toolset was programmed in, so they would need to basically completely remake the toolset for the PS3 - it would probably be easier to get it to work on the 360.

Personally, I think having the toolset for the PS3/360 is not feasible - though I do think that the use of a compiler to get the user made content onto the PS3/360 would be a great addition for Bioware.

[airforcefalco]

Why not open the source code of the toolkit to the public?

Maybe the customers can generate a solution.

[Nwalya42]

airforcefalco wrote...

Why not open the source code of the toolkit to the public?
Maybe the customers can generate a solution.

Now that is an interesting solution - and a very good one at that.

[mortonrfc]

WTB PS3 toolkit

[demireamer]

Can you explain to me why Valve is having so much trouble getting user-created content onto the 360 versions of L4D and TF2?

maybe MS has a deal with it cuz it dosnt seem like sony dose, or maybe it's Valve and not MS

realy idk what the deal is there all i know is there are ps3 game with user generated content.

i personly didnt know L4D have user mad content

[demireamer]

airforcefalco wrote...

Why not open the source code of the toolkit to the public?
Maybe the customers can generate a solution.

its based on there dev kit and i dont think the want the world to have a look ok there dev kit