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[Doctoglethorpe]

The Indoc theory, or at least something similar, MUST be true.

Theres one glaring thing that I just do not in my right mind believe would be blown off by the writers.  Its something that we've all read about, but its something I geuss I just never put quite enough thought in, never quite connected the dots and had the epiphany that makes me realize not only does it make sense but it literally HAS to be true less something even far more unbelievable is.  I think anyone else who also didn't put faith in the theory before will when they connect the dots themselves, so I'm posting this even though its getting very redundant as a means to try to help you reach the same realization I just had.

The companions you take with you in the final run, they we're with you when you get shot by Harbys laser.  Fact.  The ONLY possible answer to what proceeded was that after you wen't down but before you woke up, your companions (including possibly your LI) basically say "**** this noise" and run back without getting hit by Harby, call the normandy down, and tell joker to get them the hell out of dodge, leaving the reapers to win and Shepard to rot no questions asked all in the matter of minutes.  Add to that the people on the radio make NO mention of this occurance, but its the only thing that possibly could have occurred.  Thats it, thats the only possible answer.

But it doesn't work, PERIOD.  Its completely out of character and completely out of reason.  And theres no way Bioware don't know that.  Theres no way they could of overlooked that, but theres also no way they could let it slide.  Plain and simple, I just don't think they are that stupid. 

Connect the dots, it all makes sense, indoc theory is true.  It literally has to be, otherwise Bioware are the worst writers in history, but the entire first 99.9% of the game attest otherwise.  Thats the only two possible answers, Indoc or Bioware really made that big of a mistake.  Which one is honestly more tangible, givin how amazing the rest of the game was?

I am convinced, I have faith now.  Bioware are planning something big.  Make us proud Bioware. 

If I am wrong... well.... I'm not.  Is this what it feels to be religious?  *mordin sniff*  Feels good. 

[Turtles_AWD]

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

[Thirdsub]

something along those lines is probably the most feasible explanation

[mupp3tz]

I also want the indoc. theory to be correct, because I believe it would make a terrific redemption for Bioware; however you could also argue that the scene of the Normandy and the crew coming out on a paradise island with smiling faces could be, using Jessica Merizan's words, a "dying hallucination." Essentially, akin to a mother succumbing to death and, in her last moments, thinking of her daughter's smiling face and bright future.

[Sam Anders]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

But most other games don't have so many things that can be seen as evidence and don't have such terrible endings.

[aridor1570]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Some twittering with the devs - are we trolled or they are up to something that will blow us all away?

User 1: "I still want to believe you guys are sneaky trolls and have something going on you don't tell us yet. Can I get a cryptic reply?"
@masseffect: "The sun, it shines. www.youtube.com/watch"


User 2: "You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope."
@masseffect: "Can't it be both?"


User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."


User 4: "Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough."
@masseffect: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."


User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."


User 6: "Fans are people too. Playing with their minds isn't that nice as it may look like to people from Bioware."
@masseffect: "We're not playing with anyone's minds, we are answering what questions we can and recording what feedback we receive."


User 7: "Its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she [was] with me."
@masseffect: "Probably a good thing to be cautious of."


User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available ."

And some more:

User 1 -Well, i think i'll stop naggin you and trying to get you to talk about the indoctrination theory. Good game though!
Merizan - I want people to make up their own minds right now, then when more people have played we'll talk

User 2 - then I want to SEE that he was lying. I want to get up and finish the fight with Commander Shepard. Then retire.
Merizan - augh. want. to. discuss! Staying spoiler free for now

User 3 - But should've confronted the kid instead. Shep went meekly into the night.
Merizan - are you sure he went meekly into the night?

I keep repeating myself.

[corkey sweet]

if it is true, it would be a great way to add new endings through dlc and post campaign dlc

[TheMadBlimper]

Don't forget the ending in which Shepard mysteriously wakes up back on earth, despite that he was just in space on the citadel, apparently blew up in a massive explosion, and was told that he was going to die.

[mupp3tz]

PR talk can sometimes be just that, PR talk. We've also had great little "clues" for us prior to ME3 release, and look how that turned out.

[Turtles_AWD]

The indoctrination theory is not without its own flaws. The fact that it makes more sense than the ending that's actually in the game is just proof of the inconsistent direction the series has taken, not a secret master plan.

[Doctoglethorpe]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

I also want the indoc. theory to be correct, because I believe it would make a terrific redemption for Bioware; however you could also argue that the scene of the Normandy and the crew coming out on a paradise island with smiling faces could be, using Jessica Merizan's words, a "dying hallucination." Essentially, akin to a mother succumbing to death and, in her last moments, thinking of her daughter's smiling face and bright future.

Yes, but that would depend on only the normandy scene being a hallucination and not the entire scene.  But thats not the case because theres plenty of evidense throughout the whole ending for the indoc theory.  The normandy scene just compounds it and breaks the final straw.  If it was just a dying dream, why are their bodies still missing when you wake up from harbys shot? 

[2Shepards]

I want it to be true, for the simple fact that everyone would just poof, up and leave in the first place kinda disgusts me.

I mean Shepard has pulled one out of her buttcheeks before, wouldn't everyone think that would happen again based on past Shepard end of the game miracles.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

If it was a typical plot hole, I would agree.

But this is a plot hole the size of a galaxy.  I just do not believe Bioware would let it pass.  Not after the first 99.9% of the game. 

[SandTrout]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

The indoctrination theory is not without its own flaws. The fact that it makes more sense than the ending that's actually in the game is just proof of the inconsistent direction the series has taken, not a secret master plan.

Sad, but true.

[SamFlagg]

As much as we all want the theory to be true, if for no other reason than we might actually get closure....

All I can say is if there is a true deserved ending DLC, they better call the achivement for it "Hold the Line"

[the red boon]

The more likely explanation was the ending was rushed through QA to get the game out on time.

[Bigdoser]

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.
Reposting in case people missed it

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.
 

[Doctoglethorpe]

TheMadBlimper wrote...

Don't forget the ending in which Shepard mysteriously wakes up back on earth, despite that he was just in space on the citadel, apparently blew up in a massive explosion, and was told that he was going to die.

Yes, of course I haven't forgotten.

That seems to be the tiny little hint they left in, the little wink that confirms our suspition. 

[Turtles_AWD]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

If it was a typical plot hole, I would agree.

But this is a plot hole the size of a galaxy.  I just do not believe Bioware would let it pass.  Not after the first 99.9% of the game. 

I guess that's just a way we differ in our response to the plot holes. I would love to think bioware had something up their sleeve, but then I'd be pissed it wasn't in the game to begin with. Plus, I can't shake the knowledge that it's from the people who brought us DA2. If they couldn't see the flaws with that game prior to release...

[Trobon18]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

This. It's like people who believe Pokemon is all Ash's coma because he never grows old and there is free medical care whereever he goes. It fits because people craft it to fit, not because its what was intended.

[CommanderWilliams]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Theories such as this appear with a lot of popular games with a fanbase who don't want to believe the writers let them down.

They exist to explain away plotholes, regardless of the game writer's intentions. They didn't plan this. You can "read" the plot of the game like Shepard is indoctrinated, just like you can believe that Squall died in FF8 at the end of disc 1. But if you think Bioware actually planned that, maybe they've indoctrinated you.

So what, they just passed the script to a bunch of mental -redacted- to finish the story?

[Ghurshog]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

PR talk can sometimes be just that, PR talk. We've also had great little "clues" for us prior to ME3 release, and look how that turned out.

The problem is we dont have critical pieces of information. All the PR might be right but only after all the DLC has been released to the public?

Context matters and many are making the mistake of thinking statements having been made are only in the context of the content we have at "our", not their, disposal. 

Again the head fate that was a bit 'to' clever is giving bioware a black eye.

[mupp3tz]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

I also want the indoc. theory to be correct, because I believe it would make a terrific redemption for Bioware; however you could also argue that the scene of the Normandy and the crew coming out on a paradise island with smiling faces could be, using Jessica Merizan's words, a "dying hallucination." Essentially, akin to a mother succumbing to death and, in her last moments, thinking of her daughter's smiling face and bright future.

Yes, but that would depend on only the normandy scene being a hallucination and not the entire scene.  But thats not the case because theres plenty of evidense throughout the whole ending for the indoc theory.  The normandy scene just compounds it and breaks the final straw.  If it was just a dying dream, why are their bodies still missing when you wake up from harbys shot? 

There's no "evidence," just supposition.  As someone said, the fact that a theory made up by fans over hundreds of pages makes more sense than the ending as provided is kind of disappointing.  If anything, maybe we provided Bioware a good "out," and I hope they smarten up and take it.  As far as the inconsistencies in the ending scenes, those could also be explained as a product of rushed work, a lack of backtracking, and assigning different people to work on different things under heavy pressure from a last minute leak.

[MrPuschel]

"I don't understand it so it has to be something deeply important and true"

[mupp3tz]

Ghurshog wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

PR talk can sometimes be just that, PR talk. We've also had great little "clues" for us prior to ME3 release, and look how that turned out.

The problem is we dont have critical pieces of information. All the PR might be right but only after all the DLC has been released to the public?

Context matters and many are making the mistake of thinking statements having been made are only in the context of the content we have at "our", not their, disposal. 

Again the head fate that was a bit 'to' clever is giving bioware a black eye.

To be perfectly honest, I want to have high hopes, but I'm getting a little frustrated and resigned after a few of the developer tweets and Casey Hudson's response to the ending petitions.  There's also this little nugget from another interview:

"We have a New Game Plus, so you take that character from the end-game and restart the game with a powerful character. We also have a premise for being able to play ongoing adventures from the perspective of the middle of the game, like we had in Mass Effect 2."

LINK

So, a big part of me thinks they're just trying to do damage control by laying low and hoping that they can win us over again when they release inevitable DLC's for new missions, squad mates, weapons, alt. costumes, and MP characters.... shafting us with the same ending.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 14 mars 2012 - 10:53 .