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[clutzo the hopless]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

TheMadBlimper wrote...

Don't forget the ending in which Shepard mysteriously wakes up back on earth, despite that he was just in space on the citadel, apparently blew up in a massive explosion, and was told that he was going to die.

Yes, of course I haven't forgotten.

That seems to be the tiny little hint they left in, the little wink that confirms our suspition. 

When does one encounter this "Shepard-waking-up-in-rubble-after-the-crucible" scenario?  I've run through all three final choices and all I get is Martin Sheen as "Stargazer" cinematic.  If I witnessed this myself, I might hold out hope that there could be some manner of sensible ending (a' la Indoctrination)

[Tobey2011]

STAR_KILLER423 wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

Well, I don't really want to discuss this matter further. Believe in it people, I won't try to change your mind anymore, it's inherently impossible anyways.

You shouldn't be trying to change peoples minds. Like no one should be trying to change yours. This should be able to be disscussed civily without attacking one another. We should be presenting why we think what we do in a logical reasonable matter, as you should counter it in a logical reasonable matter.
Everyone has an opinion. I am not telling things I noticed saying that they are "proof" that its true, I am throwing it out there for discussion.

Well that's exactly what I meant, I wont present my arguments anymore as they are either being ignored or dismissed. I was also implying that people believing this story are immune to it anyways, hence i cease my efforts. Sorry for that, didn't mean to cause another false interpretation.

[trekker1701]

I don't think Shepard is indoctrinated. There have been no signs of indoctrination ever for Shepard in all the games, and for him to all of a sudden become indoctrinated at the end is just a little out of the blue. Why would he work so hard to get to the point of the game with all forces of the galaxy to take down the reapers only to be indoctrinated at the end. I would more likely believe that it is a dream or maybe some kind of attempt at indoctrination by the reapers which is a huge difference from Shepard actually being indoctrinated.

[ShaneP]

the red boon wrote...
I'm wasn't attempting to sound smug and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I honestly don't believe that they had a plan for the end because if they did why wouldn't they just come out and say it? Games go through many stages where they change the storyline multiple times until they're happy with it so I do believe that it was time restraints and for you to say that they wouldn't release a game where the ending is rubbish that's quite a false statement for there are many examples of games that have rush endings such as id's RAGE and they worked on that game for years. I'm not trying to sound superior or trying to imply that you are less then me. I just see very obvious flaws in your logic and I've also been gaming for around 16 years which really doesn't make a difference to our arqument. 

I'm sorry, but I still don't see how it's logically flawed to make the assumption that it's very unlikely for a company to purposely create an ending to a game that they KNOW is going to irritate their fans, create a massive media circus, and lead to a PR faux-pas.

When you look at it logically, the explanation that they got it a bit wrong makes sense. The explanation that they're doing it purposely is convoluted and filled with assumptions.

[Mcfly616]

Maybe I missed in the last few pages....but I still haven't seen anybody opposing the indoct/dream theory explain how they view Shepard waking up in the rubble.....still waiting for your interpretation of that if you say that he's not indoctrinated or dreaming why does he wake iPhone earth? please explain

[Mcfly616]

IPhone was smart text...was supposed to be "wake up on earth"....stupid auto-text haha

[Rawgrim]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Maybe I missed in the last few pages....but I still haven't seen anybody opposing the indoct/dream theory explain how they view Shepard waking up in the rubble.....still waiting for your interpretation of that if you say that he's not indoctrinated or dreaming why does he wake iPhone earth? please explain

They belive that the Citadel crashed on earth, and that somehow Shep survived this + managed to put on his armour on the way down.

[J-Reyno]

trekker1701 wrote...

I don't think Shepard is indoctrinated. There have been no signs of indoctrination ever for Shepard in all the games, and for him to all of a sudden become indoctrinated at the end is just a little out of the blue. Why would he work so hard to get to the point of the game with all forces of the galaxy to take down the reapers only to be indoctrinated at the end. I would more likely believe that it is a dream or maybe some kind of attempt at indoctrination by the reapers which is a huge difference from Shepard actually being indoctrinated.

Preeeetty sure that's actually what people mean, it's an ATTEMPT at indoctrination.  I don't think the theory means that he is actually indoctrinated but rather is going through the process and his mind is fighting it.  The ending is the final mental fight against indoctrination.  You can choose to control like TIM ( who was indoctrinated), choose synthesis like Saren (who was indoctrinated) or you can stick to your guns and choose destroy - the thing that Shepard has always said he would do...

.... and if you do, Shep lives.  To what end?  Who knows, but there it is.

Not saying I believe this theory.  It would be cool, but I find myself skeptical that BW would have thought of something like this.  Or if they had, seems they would have let us know by now that something else is coming, rather than just leaving us raging about in the dark..  I feel these are likely to be the only endings we have.  Which, really, makes this so sad because so many just really want it to be otherwise.  I can't imagine why BW would think it's cool to do this to their fans. 

Modifié par Reyno411, 15 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[Halberd96]

One of the whispers after the Harbinger laser is 'You have more hope than you think'

And another is 'They're all dead'

hm...

I also remember hearing whispers from aliens or something but when I redo that bit I can never get that to trigger.

Modifié par Halberd96, 15 mars 2012 - 02:40 .

[Mcfly616]

Lmfao why didn't that perfectly logical thought come to me? That it explains it....way more believable than thinking that tripped out segment at the end was just a dream

[sfam]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Disbelievers, I want to clarify that I am not giving Bioware a free pass in here. I am putting faith that they are doing something special and didn't just **** up. If they prove me wrong I will never forgive them for it. This thread is not about making you accept the ending, its about giving you hope that this isn't the ending! Hope and faith is not belief. Not in the literal translation. When I say I am now a believer, what I mean is that I now have faith in Bioware and believe that the ending is most likely not the real ending. Faith can still be broken but I am choosing to have a positive view going forward as we wait for the ending rather then a negative one. Honestly, I don't think I could of lasted much longer wallowing in the negativity I felt before. It was pretty bad... Bioware still stand to break my trust and for good this time. But for now... for now I am holding the line... with faith, not discontent.

I've made my point as clear as I can in this thread...<snip>

You have, and good on you for that, and for sparking a good convo.  I guess my point is I don't know why you would forgive Bioware even if what you say is correct?  Its one thing if they come out and say something like, "Because the ending was given away, we are going to make significant corrections, so the game you have is "almost" complete - a DLC will be coming soon at no cost to finish it."  We, like lemmings would have happily still rushed to buy the thing AND had great convos until the DLC.  But they didn't do this.  They said, "The ending is great, the game is done, get over it."

The only way they can get some redemption is by coming clean and saying, "You're right, we screwed the pooch here. Lots of corporate craziness we won't go into, but we're fixing the ending - its coming in April..."  To me, if they say, "Oh yeah, we just wanted to jerk your chain...we always intended to release the real ending later", I will not be buying anything from them again, unless it gets STELLAR reviews from beginning to end, and even then it will be way later than release.

Modifié par sfam, 15 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[ShaneP]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Maybe I missed in the last few pages....but I still haven't seen anybody opposing the indoct/dream theory explain how they view Shepard waking up in the rubble.....still waiting for your interpretation of that if you say that he's not indoctrinated or dreaming why does he wake iPhone earth? please explain

It is entirely possible that the conduit beamed him back down to earth after he made his choice...

[Zero Hakaru]

Dug this up on another forum:

http://i1115.photobu...31778596081.png

See if you notice something.. awry.

[Rawgrim]

ShaneP wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Maybe I missed in the last few pages....but I still haven't seen anybody opposing the indoct/dream theory explain how they view Shepard waking up in the rubble.....still waiting for your interpretation of that if you say that he's not indoctrinated or dreaming why does he wake iPhone earth? please explain

It is entirely possible that the conduit beamed him back down to earth after he made his choice...

Then why is Shep not wearing armour in the Citadel, but when he is back in the rubble, the armour is back on?

[Liquoid]

Shepard only gets to take the final breath if he chose Destroy option beforehand. This proves the indoctrination theory, implying that the whole ending sequence is a dream, the mental fight against the final boss, Harbinger.

[Rawgrim]

http://social.biowar...5/index/9968441 you people should check out this thread. Someone found a pic on 4chan. A pic of the kid. The pic is named HMM_ARM_HARBINGER_GRD_MDL If that doesn`t add weight to the theory, I don`t know what will.

[Nezzer]

Zero Hakaru wrote...

Dug this up on another forum:



See if you notice something.. awry.

Well, that was awkward...

[Rawgrim]

I think someone might end up feeling abit dumb, for bashing the indoctrination theory now...

[sfam]

Liquoid wrote...

Shepard only gets to take the final breath if he chose Destroy option beforehand. This proves the indoctrination theory, implying that the whole ending sequence is a dream, the mental fight against the final boss, Harbinger.

I think "Proves" is far sight too strong a word. But again, best case scenario is something like this, either indoctrination, dream sequence or whatnot, which still leaves us in the position of having bought an incomplete game, and then being royally pissed on the end result.  If Bioware comes out later with a "final end", this is still insanely disengenuous - there is no way around that. 

Dream sequences are fine plot devices. Telling everyone the game is complete when its not is not a fine plot device - that's just shabby business.

I'm still of the opinion the vast majority of those working on it absolutely "knew" the ending sucked horribly, but due to corporate weirdities, worse than a Dilbert skit, they were powerless to stop it.  They were, um, under the control of their Reaper masters at EA.  That to me is the far more likely explanation for what we have witnessed.  

Now they might have done a weird guerilla tactic with the ending, knowing that their fans would revolt, and force EA to pay to fix this, but that really is a stretch.  In that sense, we would be right now falling into their control mechanism.

[Mcfly616]

@ ShaneP:
That seems like a far bigger reach than what indoc/dream crowd are going for....honestly....biiig reach....yet all the weird out of place crap at the end being a dream/indoc, is a stretch? Compared to what you said it should be put into law lol

[MisterNugNug]

sfam wrote...
I think "Proves" is far sight too strong a word. But again, best case scenario is something like this, either indoctrination, dream sequence or whatnot, which still leaves us in the position of having bought an incomplete game, and then being royally pissed on the end result.  If Bioware comes out later with a "final end", this is still insanely disengenuous - there is no way around that. 

Dream sequences are fine plot devices. Telling everyone the game is complete when its not is not a fine plot device - that's just shabby business.

This.  I'm a little livid right now.

Modifié par MisterNugNug, 15 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[trekker1701]

Reyno411 wrote...

trekker1701 wrote...

I don't think Shepard is indoctrinated. There have been no signs of indoctrination ever for Shepard in all the games, and for him to all of a sudden become indoctrinated at the end is just a little out of the blue. Why would he work so hard to get to the point of the game with all forces of the galaxy to take down the reapers only to be indoctrinated at the end. I would more likely believe that it is a dream or maybe some kind of attempt at indoctrination by the reapers which is a huge difference from Shepard actually being indoctrinated.

Preeeetty sure that's actually what people mean, it's an ATTEMPT at indoctrination.  I don't think the theory means that he is actually indoctrinated but rather is going through the process and his mind is fighting it.  The ending is the final mental fight against indoctrination.  You can choose to control like TIM ( who was indoctrinated), choose synthesis like Saren (who was indoctrinated) or you can stick to your guns and choose destroy - the thing that Shepard has always said he would do...

.... and if you do, Shep lives.  To what end?  Who knows, but there it is.

Not saying I believe this theory.  It would be cool, but I find myself skeptical that BW would have thought of something like this.  Or if they had, seems they would have let us know by now that something else is coming, rather than just leaving us raging about in the dark..  I feel these are likely to be the only endings we have.  Which, really, makes this so sad because so many just really want it to be otherwise.  I can't imagine why BW would think it's cool to do this to their fans. 

Now I thought I read somewhere that you can get the Shepard lives ending with Synthesis.

[Rawgrim]

I don`t think he lives if you pick Synthesis. I only managed to have shep live with Destroy, and a high War Asset score.

[FREEGUNNER]

I'm not saying it's sloppy writing but, it's sloppy writing.

[Haiyato]

yea you don't live if choose control or synthesis. I think you are under control at that point if choose those two routes thats pure speculation though as well as the rest of this. Harbringer whole goal is to get rid/take control of Shepard because lets face it. She is a thorn to the reapers giving them all kinds of crap from day one. Took out Sovereign. Took out the collectors and the human reaper. (I destroyed the collectors base and got the rubble ending on my port). Which is preventing the cycle. Quite frankly I would change my tactics as well if I were the Reapers. why not play Shepard's emotions like a fiddle by using the image as a boy and TIM to cast doubt upon yourself or possibly persuade you to go in a certain direction for the greater good?

Of course this is me just babbling.