254 réponses à ce sujet

[Mersey]

Oh I really really want to believe that you're right. I'm still in denial...that can't have been the end of Me3. Hoping for a biiiiig surprise from Bioware in the coming weeks...won't happen I know.

Liara was with me in London, 5 minutes later she's in a rainforest on another planet...WTF?

[Zofiya]

Grasping at emergency induction ports when a creator does something you don't like is normal. It is seen in every fandom.

Fanon
Fanon Discontinuity
Continuity Drift
Schrodinger's Gun
Wild Mass Guessing

In the end, it doesn't matter. Whether RIT is true or not, BioWare still dropped the ball in their delivery, and that is the real issue. They need to fix it if they want to keep their customers. They can fix it with RIT, or with a text-epilogue, or with a refuse option, but they're going to have to do something.

[Cirrusstrafe]

For me, it feels like there's so many plot holes and random bizarre happenings within the ending sequence that "crackpot" theories seem MORE reliable than the face value presentation.

Considering how god tier ME1-3 is, and Bioware's usual work is, I find it impossible to believe.

Thus, something "bigger, deeper" seems more true than these "endings."

And what if we're right? If they do give us DLC true endings, or something crazy, or some extension. Would I buy it? Yes. Not because I didn't like the endings (I didn't) but because if they do, it would be one massive step forward in gameplay storytelling, and one amazing new way to breathe life into what has become a somewhat stagnant medium recently. I would wholly support the idea of the creators' screwing with us a bit and then delivering an amazing twist that literally marries the best parts of video games, ARGs, and reality.

In fact, at this point, I'd be more disappointed if they didn't.

Is it risky?  Yes.  Will it ****** a ton of people off?  Already has, and I'm sure lots will not want to pay extra (if it comes down to it) to "finish their game."  But if they do it, and they pull it off right?  Well... achievement unlocked: entirely new depth of game storytelling and creation has been born.

I want to see this happen.  I will pay to see it happen.

Modifié par Cirrusstrafe, 14 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[TudorWolf]

I really dislike how people are so fast to go with this explanation.

If Bioware turn around and confirm it (god forbid) they're saying the other 2 choices are flat out wrong and destroy is the only right one. Even less choice than we already have!

Not to mention that you don't just get over indoctrination. If you're indoctrinated, that's it. There's no off switch. If Shep is indoctrinated the Reapers have won anyway

[Rockpopple]

Indoctrination Theory is either real, or it's just another conspiracy theory.

Either way, we'll know soon enough.

I for one, believe it's real.

[Doctoglethorpe]

the red boon wrote...

The more likely explanation was the ending was rushed through QA to get the game out on time.

Sure, but then why place such a massive plot hole in it.  Why program the game to show the scene as it is and not in a way that would make more sense and not completely blow away all logic? 

No, the scene must play as intended.  Even if it was rushed, they would of had no problem at all designing it so that character who died with you in the final push wouldn't show up in that last little scene.  That takes no effort at all to accomplish on the programming end.

Look, I don't have solid evidense, the evidense I present is that you only need a tiny sliver of faith that Bioware arent the most incompetent develoepr in the world to **** up that badly and that it must of been done intentionally.  Because thats what it comes down to, It leaves ONLY two possible conclusionss.  Either its intentional and thus it must be a dream or something similar or it was an accident and bioware are the most imcompetent develoeprs ever for letting it through, not only just letting it through but doign multiple thingst hat all compound togetehr into one huge hole (bodies dissappearing when you wake up, and THEN appearing on normandy both of these thigns we're programed in they don;t just happen by pure chance. 

Intention, or worst **** up ever, two chocies. 

Do you really think the latter is possible after how perfect the entirety of the game beforet hat point was?  I mean think about that for a minute, think of how perfect the game was up to that point, how well everything fit how polished the story was.  It ONLY derps at that one final moment.  I don't see how you could honestly believe it. 

That would be like staring at a piece of blank paper for 50 hours, then closing your eyes for five minutes and not being sure if the paper your holding is still blank.  Come on, your your brain for one second and you'll know the answer. 

[Mcfly616]

Doctor Moustache, that is but one sign of proof....the scene at the end of the credits when he wakes up in the exact spot he was blasted, is the only proof you need. Nay-sayers dodge it, avoid it, won't even speak of it....this fact they cannot get around....they say we reach for straws and are stretching things to fit our theories, and all the while that's exactly what they're doing and we're just stating the facts....it is a fact that everything after Harbingers beam is not real. It's not a theory. It's a fact. Shep regains consciousness....no other proof needed.

[Mcfly616]

BOOM

[Flammenpanzer]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

The indoctrination theory is not without its own flaws. The fact that it makes more sense than the ending that's actually in the game is just proof of the inconsistent direction the series has taken, not a secret master plan.

I am sadly more inclined to believe this, but I want the other theory to be true soooo bad.

[mupp3tz]

Let's just hope Bioware gives the fans closure and clarity, because they are really damaging their business if they don't handle this correctly. Cheers to something better than what we got!

[The Elite Elite]

I WANT to believe that the Indoctrination theory is true. It certainly makes sense of a lot of the problems with the ending. However, I just have serious doubts that that was what BioWare planned as the ending of the game.

[Trobon18]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Doctor Moustache, that is but one sign of proof....the scene at the end of the credits when he wakes up in the exact spot he was blasted, is the only proof you need. Nay-sayers dodge it, avoid it, won't even speak of it....this fact they cannot get around....they say we reach for straws and are stretching things to fit our theories, and all the while that's exactly what they're doing and we're just stating the facts....it is a fact that everything after Harbingers beam is not real. It's not a theory. It's a fact. Shep regains consciousness....no other proof needed.

Except people don't ignore it. You just ignore the fact that its a video game and that video game logic applies.  And it wasn't the same spot by any stretch. He was in a pile of rubble, not the flat area you were running down. It was a pile of a ton of rubble kind of like what you would expect to see after a giant station fell to the ground. Also I don't think you know what "fact" means.

Modifié par Trobon18, 14 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[v0rt3x22]

I always agreed on this!

Further Reading:

http://social.biowar...5/index/9897896

http://social.biowar...5/index/9880796

http://social.biowar...5/index/9727423

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9861052

http://social.biowar...5/index/9863664

http://social.biowar...5/index/9896187

http://social.biowar...index/9883268/6

http://social.biowar.../index/9891674/

[MatronAdena]

aridor1570 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Some twittering with the devs - are we trolled or they are up to something that will blow us all away?

User 1: "I still want to believe you guys are sneaky trolls and have something going on you don't tell us yet. Can I get a cryptic reply?"
@masseffect: "The sun, it shines. www.youtube.com/watch"


User 2: "You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope."
@masseffect: "Can't it be both?"


User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."


User 4: "Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough."
@masseffect: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."


User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."


User 6: "Fans are people too. Playing with their minds isn't that nice as it may look like to people from Bioware."
@masseffect: "We're not playing with anyone's minds, we are answering what questions we can and recording what feedback we receive."


User 7: "Its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she [was] with me."
@masseffect: "Probably a good thing to be cautious of."


User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available ."

And some more:

User 1 -Well, i think i'll stop naggin you and trying to get you to talk about the indoctrination theory. Good game though!
Merizan - I want people to make up their own minds right now, then when more people have played we'll talk

User 2 - then I want to SEE that he was lying. I want to get up and finish the fight with Commander Shepard. Then retire.
Merizan - augh. want. to. discuss! Staying spoiler free for now

User 3 - But should've confronted the kid instead. Shep went meekly into the night.
Merizan - are you sure he went meekly into the night?

I keep repeating myself.

I admit I realy should not have stopped stalking the tweets

[Mcfly616]

The writers blowing it in the last 10 mins is not the more likely explanation! Omg whyyy can't they see?! Lol The ONLY explanation you need is Shepard regaining consciousness in the same exact spot he was blasted by Harby(after the credits)....they ended it before the final battle...accept it. It's not theory. It's fact.

[lynch108]

the red boon wrote...

The more likely explanation was the ending was rushed through QA to get the game out on time.

I disagree, I believe the OP actually has the more likely explanation.  People are leaning towards the less likely explanation of horrible writing right at the end to keep from getting hopes up.  Simple psychological tactic.  By the way, the ending dlc will be free, I'd bet on it.

[blah64]

aridor1570 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Some twittering with the devs - are we trolled or they are up to something that will blow us all away?

User 1: "I still want to believe you guys are sneaky trolls and have something going on you don't tell us yet. Can I get a cryptic reply?"
@masseffect: "The sun, it shines. www.youtube.com/watch"


User 2: "You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope."
@masseffect: "Can't it be both?"


User 3: "I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing."
@masseffect: "We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter."


User 4: "Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough."
@masseffect: "Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."


User 5: "I loved 98% of ME3..but something has to be up w/ ending..too much talent at BW for that business. Keep my saves?"
@masseffect: "We're keeping our saves, that's for sure."


User 6: "Fans are people too. Playing with their minds isn't that nice as it may look like to people from Bioware."
@masseffect: "We're not playing with anyone's minds, we are answering what questions we can and recording what feedback we receive."


User 7: "Its not that the ending was taken in the wrong direction its that it makes NO SENSE. Ashley was on the Normandy? she [was] with me."
@masseffect: "Probably a good thing to be cautious of."


User 8: "Do y'all have any ETA when more news will be released? Dying for news on a new ending/DLC."
@masseffect: "No ETA yet, but you will be updated via Facebook and Twitter when the news is available ."

And some more:

User 1 -Well, i think i'll stop naggin you and trying to get you to talk about the indoctrination theory. Good game though!
Merizan - I want people to make up their own minds right now, then when more people have played we'll talk

User 2 - then I want to SEE that he was lying. I want to get up and finish the fight with Commander Shepard. Then retire.
Merizan - augh. want. to. discuss! Staying spoiler free for now

User 3 - But should've confronted the kid instead. Shep went meekly into the night.
Merizan - are you sure he went meekly into the night?

I keep repeating myself.

Exactly. I subscribe to indoc theory. There is to much evidence, and the reactions from some devs is just...well I picture half of them trying to hide smirks like they know something w don't.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Cirrusstrafe wrote...

For me, it feels like there's so many plot holes and random bizarre happenings within the ending sequence that "crackpot" theories seem MORE reliable than the face value presentation.

Considering how god tier ME1-3 is, and Bioware's usual work is, I find it impossible to believe.

Thus, something "bigger, deeper" seems more true than these "endings."

And what if we're right? If they do give us DLC true endings, or something crazy, or some extension. Would I buy it? Yes. Not because I didn't like the endings (I didn't) but because if they do, it would be one massive step forward in gameplay storytelling, and one amazing new way to breathe life into what has become a somewhat stagnant medium recently. I would wholly support the idea of the creators' screwing with us a bit and then delivering an amazing twist that literally marries the best parts of video games, ARGs, and reality.

In fact, at this point, I'd be more disappointed if they didn't.

Is it risky?  Yes.  Will it ****** a ton of people off?  Already has, and I'm sure lots will not want to pay extra (if it comes down to it) to "finish their game."  But if they do it, and they pull it off right?  Well... achievement unlocked: entirely new depth of game storytelling and creation has been born.

I want to see this happen.  I will pay to see it happen.

I wholly agree now.  This whole heart wrenching ordeal will be the most amazing emotional experience an entertainemnt medium has ever accomplished to cause in me.  Lightyears ahead of even the next closest thing.  Now that I've come over to the faithful side, I understand the true artistic implications of this.  Its absolutely HUGE.  And I can also see the financial implications, since this would be seriously the biggest stunt anyone has ever pulled with a video game.  Even if they lost money on it in the short run, it would be a historical event in the industry and that would do amazing things for Bioware and EA both.  Artistic credebility can go much farther then short term profit signs.  This realization also helps me believe.  Before I thought it was too risky, to much of thing EA are completely out of character of doing.  But Its really not, its ****ing pure genious and its really not even that difficult.  The risk is insignificant to the payoff. 

Its going to happen or my name is Jack ****. 

And if Bioware crumble this borderline religious faith I'm feeling right now, well its a good thing I'm an atheist.  (Cause they would get cursed so bad lightning would wipe out Canada) 

[Doctoglethorpe]

"Okay... one more story."

(I'm about to cry tears of pure happiness here, omfg)

[Dark Wyn]

TudorWolf wrote...

I really dislike how people are so fast to go with this explanation.

If Bioware turn around and confirm it (god forbid) they're saying the other 2 choices are flat out wrong and destroy is the only right one. Even less choice than we already have!

Not to mention that you don't just get over indoctrination. If you're indoctrinated, that's it. There's no off switch. If Shep is indoctrinated the Reapers have won anyway

We're not saying Shepards been FULLY Indoctrinated.  But it's pretty obvious that Harbinger is sure giving it one helluva try.  The reason I have such faith in this idea and that Shepard beats it is because from the first game and Saren, Shepard learns about what indoctrination is and how it works.  And Shepard is by far one of the most convicted characters in the series.

It goes to say that Shepard is one of the few who truly stands a good chance of shoving Harbinger's Indoctrination attempts right back in it's face  ((if you can find it's face)).  Thus we get the Destroy choice and the breathing scene.

Hold the line.

[Flammenpanzer]

Dammit people don't you dare get my hopes up.

$#^!@

[jspiess]

I sure hope it is right and there is more to come on the "ending"

[Mcfly616]

please see Matron Adena repost of the tweets....I know its hard to accept the things you see with your own two eyes....yeah you're right Trobon....the citadel/catalyst fell to earth with Shepard on it, and Shep survived re-entering the atmosphere, and crashed into the earth at 1000's of miles per hour. Man, why didn't I think of that?! That is SOOO much more likely than him waking up after the blast from Harby! Pretty sure that crater would be a bit bigger....but you're right...you can take it from here

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I feel it's pretty hard to argue the indoctrination theory has zero merit and is disprovable now. When I first saw it I thought it was pretty crackpot. I'm coming around, mostly for the recent tweets and stuff with the kid in the dreams before the ending (and the "you can't save us," seems like Harbinger trolling Shep).

That doesn't mean it's true, just that it has a credible chance of being possible.

Modifié par PKchu, 14 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[Rawgrim]

Mcfly616 wrote...

please see Matron Adena repost of the tweets....I know its hard to accept the things you see with your own two eyes....yeah you're right Trobon....the citadel/catalyst fell to earth with Shepard on it, and Shep survived re-entering the atmosphere, and crashed into the earth at 1000's of miles per hour. Man, why didn't I think of that?! That is SOOO much more likely than him waking up after the blast from Harby! Pretty sure that crater would be a bit bigger....but you're right...you can take it from here

Not to mention Shep had a gun with unlimited ammo, and also managed to survive up there without any oxygen.