37 réponses à ce sujet

[LynxAQ]

Activate Momentum with Duel (From Duelist talents) and you are off. Using any rogue attacks is a waste of time and pointless as they lower your DPS by LOADS.

Only abilities I use are the abilities that reduce defense/mark of death and only on boss fights at the start.

Feels like all these abilities have been put in the game and they are completely pointless and useless to the point I dont even have them on my action bar.

I really feel the sustained abilities need to be reworked. Perhaps make them all drain your mana/stamina slowly or give them a duration (aka change them to temp buffs).

[Bluesmith]

Dirty Fighting is useful on occasion as an interrupt. Mark and Below the Belt are useful on higher difficulties. DW Sweep can sometimes hit three (possibly more) enemies at once, which also makes it useful in certain circumstances.

Flurry, Deadly Strike, etc. are all trash. Most of the DW tree is trash for Rogues because momentum backstabs just plain outclass nearly everything. I've said it before - the DW tree was built for warriors, not rogues. It doesn't help that momentum is probably one of the most overpowered modals in the game right now.

[LtlMac]

Are you serious?! I think rogue abilities are awsome. In fact this time around, My 'rogue' is nothing more than DW warrior the way I have him specc'ed.



The ability to backstab any paralyzed/immobile opponent+Momentum+Starfang and Topsider = PWNED ORANGE MOB!!



The ability to backstab is where the rogue shines...and boy does he/she shine if you have them specc'd right

[LynxAQ]

I personally think the biggest problem with these abilities atm is they take time to do and your character stops auto attacking to do them. Add to the fact that elemental damages for some odd reason dont hit when you use special attacks and auto attack is so strong...



Perhaps a good fix would be to make the special abilities more fluent like they just weave into your auto attacking.



ATM the specials cause your character to stop completely, then do the special, then continue auto attacking. Such a waste of time for so little damage.

[LynxAQ]

LtlMac wrote...

Are you serious?! I think rogue abilities are awsome. In fact this time around, My 'rogue' is nothing more than DW warrior the way I have him specc'ed.

The ability to backstab any paralyzed/immobile opponent+Momentum+Starfang and Topsider = PWNED ORANGE MOB!!

The ability to backstab is where the rogue shines...and boy does he/she shine if you have them specc'd right

Did you even read my post? Bar the armour/defense reducing abilities, the rogue special attacks are useless once you have Momentum. Thats what I am saying. Using things like whirlwind or flurry is just a waste of dps and a waste of time. Which makes these skills pointless.

[anillop]

They are useful for those situations where you cannot backstab because you are being directly attacked. In those situations Riposte and Dirty Fighting are great because of the stuns and when you add Coup De Grace you are able to now backstab mobs that are facing you. Dual-Weapon Sweep and Whirlwind are useful for when you want to attack multiple mobs at once. The rest of the skills are not as important, but the way you use the other 4 makes you able to do significant damage when you not backstabbing.

[Hunter246]

so many people say rogues useless i want to know why? They give more exp and loot and their talents are great.

[hexaligned]

DW sweep, and whirlwind useless? How exactly do you figure that.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

relhart wrote...

DW sweep, and whirlwind useless? How exactly do you figure that.

Mainly cause they stop auto-attacks, and as a result, backstabbing.

[hexaligned]

You can backstab 6 enemies at once? News to me

[Serenity84]

Why do people only care about DPS? It's not everything. It doesn't always help you to hit opponents when they can hit you back at the same time. That's why you use opportunities to stun them. Like Riposte. Combined with Coup de Grace, that's several backstabs you wouldn't otherwise get because you can't always circle around an enemy.

DW sweep and Whirwind have their uses when you are surrounded, as they hit many opponents at once. If they are already low on health they die.

What you can do without is Cripple and Punisher. Those are indeed fairly useless.

Modifié par Serenity84, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:18 .

[Solwen_Polyhymnia]

Whirlwind and furry is on the dual wielding tree and not rogue tree I believe. Most of the talents on the rogue tree are passive ie Combat movement, Coup de grace, and lethality which are very useful.



One of actives is dirty fighting which stuns for short period which is always useful if you couldn't get behind them (because you are soloing or fighting a backline combatant,) or if you need to stun that mage so you can potentially stop him from casting nasty spells.



The other one is below the belt which is a defense debuff. Deadly strike is more useless but if you can't get behind them it can actually do more damage against a high armor target but is mostly useless. Feign death is also more useless. Stealth and disarm/open lock still is great for the amount of free exp you can get and this game have a few fights where the area is pepper with traps and atleast knowing where they are can be usefull.



I think what you meant is that dual wielding tree is mostly useless for rogue other than momentum and some of the passive abilities and you would be correct. Dual wielding tree seems more gear for the dual wielding warrior. So that tree is more of a trap for rogue. However I do regard the 2 active talents preceeding momentum as the price of admission for a very powerful ability and it is more potent in the hand of a rogue as all our backstabbing damage are critical. However between the rogue talents and the specialization talents I never felt like I ran out of good talent options that I wanted so it shouldn't be too difficult to pick the good talents and avoid the more useless ones. And count your blessing that your ability to do good damage isn't dependent on lot of stamina intensive ability in a world without stamina potions (unless you are using a mod.)

[Sero03]

Get Haste with Wynne and momentum goes to being useless as well! Since this lovely game doesnt let momentum and haste stack. its pointless. (love being haste capped because of animation!) makes me warm and fuzzy

[Yummyclaw]

As for the DW tree, most of it is a trap for rogues.But many of the "trap" talents are not totally useless and are prereqs for good talents.



Flurry is good when you have to kill that archer or mage waaaaaay over there with his back against the corner so you can't backstab him. And you have to take it for Momentum so it's practically free..



DW sweep is good as an opener when your tank is stuffed on one side. And you have to take it for Momentum so..

Riposte is a stun and I find that my warrior got resisted a lot more often than the rogue when using it.

The top tree is mostly useless to a rogue.



As for actual rogue talents, only Deadly Strike and Feign Death are useless. A stun, a defense debuff, 180 degree backstab, backstab on stunned and paralyzed, 20% dodge, Cunning damage swap, stealth grenades and traps, combat stealth, easy gold and XP? Sign me up twice.



Now warriors and mages have the use bad class talents.

[LtlMac]

LynxAQ wrote...

LtlMac wrote...

Are you serious?! I think rogue abilities are awsome. In fact this time around, My 'rogue' is nothing more than DW warrior the way I have him specc'ed.

The ability to backstab any paralyzed/immobile opponent+Momentum+Starfang and Topsider = PWNED ORANGE MOB!!

The ability to backstab is where the rogue shines...and boy does he/she shine if you have them specc'd right

Did you even read my post? Bar the armour/defense reducing abilities, the rogue special attacks are useless once you have Momentum. Thats what I am saying. Using things like whirlwind or flurry is just a waste of dps and a waste of time. Which makes these skills pointless.

Of course I read your post, wtf?!  Flurry is perfect after backstabbing mages, and whirlwind is wonderful at endgame when ememies hit hard but don't have a lot of health. "Mages are over powered" is abou tthe only 'gameply' critisicm I will agree with....but even that....they are SUPPOSED to be badass....my only complaint is that there are too man of them (If the circle of Maji iand templars are so awsome, why all the rogue mages!!???)

Anywayways, my only complaint aboutthis game is that as many choices as there are (which i do love) most choices are just an illusion.  You, my friend, are nit p;icking where there is no need to.  Rogues rule!   A Mage/Rogue combo is unstoppable!!  Me and morrigan FTW~!!!

[Hunter246]

most games mages are over powered for the fact they have low defense

[Hunter246]

mages are overpowered on most game cause they lack def so if you get close they dead

[arrrasdgaehjskmszkm]

well you dont have momentum at lv 6 do you?

[Timortis]

LynxAQ wrote...

The rogue special attacks are useless once you have Momentum. Thats what I am saying. Using things like whirlwind or flurry is just a waste of dps and a waste of time. Which makes these skills pointless.

Let's not exaggerate. Yes, when you're backstabbing, Momentum + auto attack overshadows the other single target attacks. But Sweep and Whirlwind are always superior when you have more than one enemy. The attack that feels the most useless is Deadly Strike. It has a long animation that takes a lot of time and it' just 1 hit with an armor penetration bonus. Looking at the talents in the archery tree, Deadly Strike should have been a guaranteed crit with a big damage bonus, on top of the armor penetration. That would have made it worthwile to use, even when backstabbing.

[Sero03]

i personally think it should have been a permanent reduce to armor class. then it would be effective

[Ginnerben]

arrrasdgaehjskmszkm wrote...

well you dont have momentum at lv 6 do you?

Why not?  :/

If you've not, you're playing DW badly.  

[Ulrik the Slayer]

relhart wrote...

You can backstab 6 enemies at once? News to me

What? Re-read my post. And yet again. And again, until you get it.

[Timortis]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

relhart wrote...

You can backstab 6 enemies at once? News to me

What? Re-read my post. And yet again. And again, until you get it.

He's right, you're wrong. It doesn't matter that it stops auto attacks, it's a hit with both weapons on multiple targets, 5-6 or more, that's way more than any auto-attack backstabs you're going to get within that amount of time.

[TheMufflon]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

relhart wrote...

You can backstab 6 enemies at once? News to me

What? Re-read my post. And yet again. And again, until you get it.

Actually, you're the one not getting it. relhart's point is that DW sweep and whirlwind target multiple enemies and can thus end up with more DPS than backstabbing.

Edit: Ninja'd

Modifié par TheMufflon, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:03 .

[Maedryc]

Well, some DW talents aren't that hot, however quite a bit of them have their uses.
For example, dirty fighting and revenge stuns are on the same diminishing returns; Punisher, on the other hand, usually knocks your opponent down and is pretty good when facing mages, since you can pop behind them, backstab, land a normal hit, crit again and knock them down. Hitting Dirty Fighting or Revenge after opening with Puhisher usually means that the mage is dead before he can cast a single spell.
Whirlwind and Double Sweep are great when facing a lot of opponents (I don't know how much damage your character does, but with Whirlwind and DS I hit each opponent twice, for about 90-100 damage total, which is a bit more than a backstab), and Dirty Fighting and Revenge are really useful as interrupts when you're playing a dex focused rogue ( stuns will ruin your day).
Furthermore, it's not true that Flurry and Punisher lower your DPS: they're way faster than your normal attacks, and especially at higher levels you'll crit pretty often with them.
You can just use all of your stamina and activate Momentum when you're out of specials, and you'll be far better than just activating Momentum.
Cripple and Deadly Strike are pretty meh, yeah.
To sum up, no, most of them aren't useless, they're just a bit situational, but under the right circumstances can be pretty useful.

Modifié par Maedryc, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:43 .