58 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonage200200]

 I don't know if anyone has noticed but, if you go to the ME twitter account, its filled up with them asking what people Liked/disliked about the ending and etc.

I don't know about anyone else, but this is gives me back some faith in BW, atleast they are starting to listen.

Thoughts?

Modifié par dragonage200200, 15 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Stanley Woo]

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

[Stanley Woo]

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

[Stanley Woo]

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

[Stanley Woo]

Jayce F wrote...

It must pretty much suck to be you guys right now and having to deal with this.

Actually, I'm all right with it. The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback. And a large portion of those dissatisfied with the ME3 endings are cautioning others to keep the criticism constructive, to be respectful to the developers, and to remain civil in their arguments. I appreciate that a great deal, and I thank you and the rest of our community for that.

I just hope that I can do my little bit to convince you that, yes, we are listening and dispel at least some of the "BioWare doesn't care fo this reason or that" type comments. i've always said that we may not always be able to say what you want to hear, or even respond all the time, but we are always listening.

[Stanley Woo]

aLucidMind wrote...

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

...Wow.

I'm pretty sure he meant "to please one person" or something to that effect. If they were to make any portion of the game in accordance to what fans want, it would be a bit foolish to develop the game to one fan's preference. I very much doubt this was meant as a backhanded comment towards the vast majority who dislike the ending.

Correct, I do mean "to please one individual." I try to respond to an individual and sometimes it's taken as a general address. I apologize for the confusion.

Oftentimes, people will act like they speak for "the majority" or "a majority" or, as seen in this thread, "90% of the fanbase" or "95% of players." It is occasionally difficult to switch between talking to one person and talking to everyone.

[Stanley Woo]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Leaks really don't matter and can't be stopped anyway.

NDA's are serious and you can sue people who breach them

But yes from the community, randomly, see what they think, then task that with the current QA team and see what the results are. Always change the QA so you don't develop bias's.

And if those members they pick from this community do not agree with you on a future product and actually give feedback that is detrimental to your stance on top of the fact they will inevitably leak every single peice of information about the product regardless of NDA's as they alays seem to do these days and if they get sued everyone will cry foul again too then what? Take an example I disliked DA2, maybe you disliked DA2, we might have been happy based on that to think have same goals in every single title which is not the case and would you cry foul then or bias if at that time my stance or yours is different to a following title? I do not think this route would work.

A random sampling from community members that provide good detail and content in the forum or in the community.

It would provide a good basis and be much better than what we're getting now.

No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

[Stanley Woo]

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

[Stanley Woo]

cinderburster wrote...

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

[Stanley Woo]

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

I didn't say we weren't listening to them, nor did I imply it. Even if they are "only the minority," they are still part of our fanbase (and our community) and they have still provided feedback.

[Stanley Woo]

jimbo32 wrote...

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone at BioWare - whether a writer, producer or QA - , at some point, didn't say "No offense guys, but this ending is completely lame and makes very little sense.".

You can believe what you will. It is, in fact, extremely easy to believe something about a process that can't be explained or justified to you. Especially when the company employing that process is already a target of criticism.

I am really not at liberty to talk about the specifics of what "someone at BioWare" did or didn't do "at some point" during development.

[John Epler]

cinderburster wrote...

devSin wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

This is true.  One, you're asking these questions in a No Spoilers section of the forum (which I imagine devs have to adhere to, too) and two, if there are plans the people within BioWare are obligated not to reveal them until they are about to/have come to fruition.  Otherwise people hear about something that's just on the table and hasn't even been rendered yet, latch on to it, and get upset when it gets scrapped.

There's a legal concern here, too, in that employees of publicly traded companies have to be very careful what they say in public. Given that the rules are, to a degree, somewhat convoluted - it's often best to err on the side of caution. And, yes, it's very true that we try and avoid talking about anything until we're certain it's coming out, as things change all the time in game development.

And lest anyone take this as any kind of indication about anything, I'm not involved with the Mass Effect franchise. Because I just know that, at some point, someone will take what I said as confirming something or another.

[Stanley Woo]

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

There's a legal concern here, too, in that employees of publicly traded companies have to be very careful what they say in public. Given that the rules are, to a degree, somewhat convoluted - it's often best to err on the side of caution. And, yes, it's very true that we try and avoid talking about anything until we're certain it's coming out, as things change all the time in game development.

David can't post anymore because people can't take a joke and have fun, can he?

I still remember the time Fernando Melo told me he was working on getting out high-resolution textures for Item Pack #1. LIAR! Fernando Malo!

I think Dave just doesn't post because, really, there's not much he can say at the moment. I mean, most of what he can talk about is just rehashing the same questions and thoughts. I stick around because I am an enormous fan of discussing the theory of game mechanics and the reasoning behind particular design choices.

But! I'm bringing this off topic.

[Stanley Woo]

devSin wrote...
Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

People seem to have the same kinds of questions, the same kinds of conspiracy theories, and misrepresent the same things from project to project. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, after all.

[Stanley Woo]

HiroVoid wrote...

Truthfully, it reminds me of the old saying 'If I had a dollar for every complaint I heard."   Imagine if they did this type of thing for every time people had a complaint against a company.

Oh, I wouldn't want that... but a "swear jar" for the forum might be nice.

[John Epler]

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

And this is an example of how not to respond, folks.

Keep it civil and respectful.

[John Epler]

And let's cut out this whole personal attacks tangent, or more bans will be getting handed out.

[Stanley Woo]

And let's all please remember that we are still in a No Spoilers forum. Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr. Siegal wrote...

A tad off topic, but you have to feel bad for Stanley Woo. His job is to take the flak for the devs. He's BioWare's tank.

I mostly bring it upon myself, because I like interacting with our community.

[Stanley Woo]

And let's wrap up our discussion of statistics and get back on topic now, please. Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

And for the second time, since some folks were likely in reply windows when I said it the first time: let's wrap up our discussion of statistics and get back on topic, please. Thank you.

[Stanley Woo]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Okidoki.

Ontopic. When can we expect a formal response to the issues at hand?

You may start expecting one whenever you like.

[Stanley Woo]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Oh man, that is typical Woo and Priestly style moderating right there. lol

How about a real answer now?

You haven't been listening to us at all, have you?

[Stanley Woo]

Teddie Sage wrote...

The thing I simply don't like, is how some questions are easily dodged by the game producers or paraphrased and changed to their own advantage. This is a part of general marketing I never liked. Not saying they should do this or should do that, but it frustrates me personally to no end. Clearly, BSN has a hardcore fanbase for every games made by the separate teams of this company... It would be fun sometimes to feel the trust and love from the developers instead of being treated like strangers. Oh, but don't mind me... I'm just being paranoid, like usual.

The community treats us like trusted buddies when things are rosy and there are no problems. When issues come up, they want OFFICIAL DEFINITE CORPORATE ANSWERS. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because we act the same way. When it's just us chatting about this or that, you'll find people like me or John or Priestly to be fun and informative. When issues come up, as devSin implied, the same kinds of official responses are presented.

As long as you are aware of why this happens, and can accept some measure of disappointment when soliciting us for OFFICIAL ANSWERS, everything should be fine.