1109 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

rexil wrote...

kbct wrote...

The Razman wrote...

40,000 is definitely not a small number ... but it's also a biased sample. Ignoring that is foolish.

I can understand the desire to deny the poll results, and while it doesn't represent the population, it is growing daily and at some point people will have to concede it has predictive power. How many voters does everyone want? 200K? 2M?

And there's the other polls, every poll from everywhere has the same result as this one.

And the reviews. From everywhere. Except the professional reviews.

There are more indicators than just the poll and they all point to the same conclusion.

[Dragoonlordz]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Many developers do not talk directly on forums to their fanbases in person, you still buy their game or most people do. 

Hell in 80s and 90's most did not talk to their fanbases yet you still bought their game so don't be so silly.

Game Development conferences or E3 or the like have always had the type of communication with developers, and forums have almost all had some developer or writer in regards to it depending on the genre of game.

Be quite hard to do that given was no such thing as the internet for average joe on the street in the 80's and E3 didn't start till mid 90's. Sorry but I have been around long enough to remember how things were in the past. Developer feedback from fans did not really kick off in any large way until last decade. Prior to that you still bought games as did everyone else. Even now a lot of developers do not seek fan opinions on their creative process.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[Darth Malignus]

Lion-AUT- wrote...

We will never forget, but if i am right then you know what you are doing.
So...go on...

Yeah, move along. Nothing to see here.

[The Razman]

hubbardray wrote...

The Razman wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

yes 40,000 people is a small sample size - please

I've never even seen that poll. Most likely because I like the ending, and am not clamouring to find ways of expressing my feelings towards it.

40,000 is definitely not a small number ... but it's also a biased sample. Ignoring that is foolish.

This is an open forum, meant not only for praise but complaints too. But most forums, you would see more people liking something than not. Mostly because people won't bother signing up for a game they hate. In this case, its much less so because of previous games and our expectations for sequals, but if anything I would still expect a 50/50 split.

At worst, you would expect a subpar ending to have maybe 35% hating it. But the results are a bigger landslide than if you asked a KKK forum if they hate African Americans(purely an example people, no hatin'). That should tell you something.

That's wild speculation, if you don't mind me saying so. The justification for those "figures" couldn't be more flimsy.

If people hate something, what's the first thing they do? Get on the internet and moan about it. And in an ending which was designed to polarise people, that's quite obviously what some have done.

I'm not saying that there aren't a significant number of people who hate the endings. I'm saying attempting to quantify it to use as "proof" is a meaningless exercise. Online polls are simply chock a block full of bias; people who love the endings aren't going to be searching out polls to express that feeling.

[Luiginius]

kbct wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

I didn't say we weren't listening to them, nor did I imply it. Even if they are "only the minority," they are still part of our fanbase (and our community) and they have still provided feedback.

Not sure how you hear from the majority then. One thing is for sure, you shouldn't listen to the professional reviewers. They're all near-perfect scores.

One simple way to estimate the level of soul selling in "gaming journos" is the timing of their review.
Just skip everything labelled "preview" and "exclusive".Brutally honest people tend not recieve their copies before releases.

Modifié par Luiginius, 15 mars 2012 - 01:49 .

[Wishpig]

CerberusSoldier wrote...
Liara in ME 3 is completely fan service and a forced one at that . hell the Squad in ME 3 is fan service for the ME 1 fans . lets not talk about fan service because ME 1 fans got a Sh*** ton of it in this game

Hey, lets give them credit for this move. It wasn't a move that made me happy (with the exception of Wrex, I prefered the ME2 crew).

BUT it was a difficult move for them. They could have introduced a bunch of new characters, and that would have been easier. BUT they chose the characters with the most history. Two of which who would only appear at the cost of the other.

[ratzerman]

Woo, I realize you might vanish from this thread at any minute, never to appear again.

So I just want to say thanks for speaking with us.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...
How much replay value is left, really? Not just in ME3, but 1+2 as well?

Funny you would ask this, since the games have always been subpar on the "shooter" side and the major attraction was always the "choice" and story.

But now knowing that the choices you make count for nothing and the story is also a slap in the face due to the final 10 minutes of ME3...

Well, for me anyways, there is ZERO replay value left in the franchise. And since I won't (refuse) to buy DLC for ME3 to *fix* the ending... I don't see my opinion changing.

I already paid BioWare for a bad job, and it goes against every fiber of my being to pay someone again to fix something they screwed up.

Personally I've chosen to ignore the fact ME3 exists and plan on playing the first two again since I lost my saves.

And at the end of two I set off a chain reaction destorying the reapers and ride off with Garrus on a unicorn.

[Shady41]

Well at least they're listening...

[TheSnappyDude]

Saint Op wrote...

I think they are just asking a question to get people to talk about it and when they get positive tweets (which they will ,plenty of people are fine with the endings or what they think will happen) they will retweet them.....duh..

this,

[Darth Malignus]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Many developers do not talk directly on forums to their fanbases in person, you still buy their game or most people do. 

Hell in 80s and 90's most did not talk to their fanbases yet you still bought their game so don't be so silly.

Game Development conferences or E3 or the like have always had the type of communication with developers, and forums have almost all had some developer or writer in regards to it depending on the genre of game.

Be quite hard to do that given was no such thing as the internet for average joe on the street in the 80's and E3 didn't start till mid 90's. Sorry but I have been around long enough to remember how things were in the past. Developer feedback from fans did not really kick off in any large way until last decade. 

Back in those days, roughly around the mid-80's we old farts had to play "SIMS - Real Life Edition". The graphics were okay, but the controls were... tantrummy...

[Planet Pannett]

Maybe they will see the fans aren't happy with this we've put time and money into all these games and to leave it hanging like that makes me feel like ive wasted my time if at the end of it all all my choices made little to no difference from anyone else's game my have choices when at the end it basiclly the same....

[jijeebo]

kbct wrote...

rexil wrote...

kbct wrote...

The Razman wrote...

40,000 is definitely not a small number ... but it's also a biased sample. Ignoring that is foolish.

I can understand the desire to deny the poll results, and while it doesn't represent the population, it is growing daily and at some point people will have to concede it has predictive power. How many voters does everyone want? 200K? 2M?

And there's the other polls, every poll from everywhere has the same result as this one.

And the reviews. From everywhere. Except the professional reviews.

There are more indicators than just the poll and they all point to the same conclusion.

You just need to look at the @masseffect twitter, every second tweet is them asking someone either "What didn't you like about the endings?" "Why didn't tou enjoy the endings?" or "Was there anything about the game you did enjoy?"

... Not a great sign.

[devSin]

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

[Wishpig]

HiroVoid wrote...

http://retakemasseff...ect-childs-play

Even if you disagree with the why, over a thousand fans have been able to come together to fund over $40,000 for a charity organization.

Negatively(your opinions may vary)

Word of mouth carries people's opinions much more to other people faster than anything. Instead of just relying on reviews, people will hear about a lot of people saying something is crap before they may end up buying it. This is the case for movies as well. I also personally believe this is why DA2 ended up dropping so quickly in sales after initial release.

HAHAHA! This must make the writer behind the ending either REALLY happy or REALLY depressed. His horrible failure helped raise 40,000 for chariety... so maybe it's both.

This kinda makes me allright with ME3's ending. It may have sucked, but it sucked SO bad it did something more important than any ending to a videogame. Next paycheck I get is going towards this.

Modifié par Wishpig, 15 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[durasteel]

dragonage200200 wrote...

TheBandit554 wrote...

 WHO"S SIKED FOR DA3?

I lol'ed. And its because I am one of the few people on this board who are.

Interesting point. I think it is safe to say that the overwhelming majority of us will play DA3, but that's not the most interesting question. I'm curious to see how many buy upcoming BioWare titles as pre-orders, as opposed to waiting for the $29.99 complete edition with all the DLC 9 months or a year later.

I have to admit that I have been buying BioWare products without hesitation or reservation, pre-ordering collector's editions of everything with an absolute conviction that it is money well spent. Without exaggeration or hyperbole, the end of ME3 has made me consider whether that will necessarily be true going forward. As amazing as the game is otherwise, the end does make me question their commitment to quality and the integrity of their narratives across a game series.

[DigitalMaster37]

Thanks a lot Woo for conversating with us, sometimes it is enough to put us at ease at least a little bit to hear from a dev that they are genuinely listening. Just know that we are holding you to those words although you arent the only one to have said them.

I know better than to prejudge, so I will wait until I see with my own eyes BioWare's response to this. To me that will say a ton to how you all handle this type of issue. This is honestly one, if not the biggest fan issue I have seen you all have to deal with. We are watching kind sir!

[aksoileau]

Wishpig wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...
Liara in ME 3 is completely fan service and a forced one at that . hell the Squad in ME 3 is fan service for the ME 1 fans . lets not talk about fan service because ME 1 fans got a Sh*** ton of it in this game

Hey, lets give them credit for this move. It wasn't a move that made me happy (with the exception of Wrex, I prefered the ME2 crew).

BUT it was a difficult move for them. They could have introduced a bunch of new characters, and that would have been easier. BUT they chose the characters with the most history. Two of which who would only appear at the cost of the other.

This is one of the reasons why the endings make it even worse to swallow.  They did so many amazing things from ME and ME2 and put them into ME3  only to have the endings negate ALL OF IT!

[darkshadow136]

devSin wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

Yep I agree, I do remember almost eact comments from the DA2 thing a year ago, just a few words chaged here and there. 

[Amikae]

He's just stalling.

[Dragoonlordz]

Darth Malignus wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Many developers do not talk directly on forums to their fanbases in person, you still buy their game or most people do. 

Hell in 80s and 90's most did not talk to their fanbases yet you still bought their game so don't be so silly.

Game Development conferences or E3 or the like have always had the type of communication with developers, and forums have almost all had some developer or writer in regards to it depending on the genre of game.

Be quite hard to do that given was no such thing as the internet for average joe on the street in the 80's and E3 didn't start till mid 90's. Sorry but I have been around long enough to remember how things were in the past. Developer feedback from fans did not really kick off in any large way until last decade. 

Back in those days, roughly around the mid-80's we old farts had to play "SIMS - Real Life Edition". The graphics were okay, but the controls were... tantrummy...

Yet the selection of titles, the variety in creativity was much greater and oh how I miss the prices of the tapes and disks... Good times. Fan feedback has been overall detrimental to the creativity of the industry in the past decade but it's not a trend that can be stopped. There has been some good ideas but overall the result has been negative, some people mistake a lot of creativity for fan basis but in reality it has been for the most part simple technological improvements allowing developers to do more.

[Vasarkian]

darkshadow136 wrote...

devSin wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

Yep I agree, I do remember almost eact comments from the DA2 thing a year ago, just a few words chaged here and there.  

And the truth was always radically different than the BioWare staff insinuated.

I forgot about this, now I can remember not to believe anything anyone says.

Modifié par Vasarkian, 15 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[jijeebo]

devSin wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

... I can always dream though, eh?

You could even go as far as to say I can always hallucinate, eh Stanley? *wink wink nudge nudge*


... Worth a shot.

[Darth Malignus]

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

[cinderburster]

devSin wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Just stop being cryptic with crap like "We're looking at the feedback and appreciate the points made, doesn't mean we're going to do anything though... But never say never, but never say definately... But if you knew what we were planning you'd definately keep your copies forever, but that doesn't mean we're fixing the reason people would give their copies away... But it also doesn't mean we aren't."

Stanley has been copy/pasting the same thing for years now. Nearly all of them have.

These responses could be lifted verbatim from the DA2 forums last year, and they'll reappear on the DA3 forums next year.

Stanley is not going to tell you anything. He's not going to make you think he even has anything to tell you. He can't.

This is true.  One, you're asking these questions in a No Spoilers section of the forum (which I imagine devs have to adhere to, too) and two, if there are plans the people within BioWare are obligated not to reveal them until they are about to/have come to fruition.  Otherwise people hear about something that's just on the table and hasn't even been rendered yet, latch on to it, and get upset when it gets scrapped.