1109 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

Muezick wrote...

"What we really mean to say is...absolutely nothing at all."

- This whole thread

Heh. But it's a start. It's something.

[Leonia]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Oh, I wouldn't want that... but a "swear jar" for the forum might be nice.

This ought to come standard with every forum account.

[RocketManSR2]

kbct wrote...

And maybe a whine bottle and syrupy-sweet-response jar.

Dibs on the money from the whine bottle. I could use a new jet.

[Kierkegaardianite]

This is a business in panic mode. I know, I've been part of one.

You're pulled in a lot of different directions, and even moreso in an interactive and creative environment like game development. They can't come right out and admit that they rushed and/or botched the ending, because the game is still in its prime selling zone. They will never admit before the initial sales cycle that anything is wrong, or that any of your concerns are valid, because that would hurt sales from people who don't frequent sites such as this one. That anything is even being attempted at this point for damage control is already a testament to player reaction and current financial data. If players are anything like me, they bought the day-one DLC, bought a few cheap MP packs, and then continued to beat the game. I'm more than willing to spend a couple bucks here and there on MP unlocks since the opportunity cost is better for me to simply buy it than grind it, but since seeing the ending I have not spent an extra cent on the game.

Were I looking at the analytics of what players spent during the game versus what they spent after finishing it once, I would be pissing my pants. I can't imagine that it is anything less than abysmal.

In addition to people like me, willing ATMs of SP/MP DLC, who -- despite trying to play again -- have been turned away because of the inept handling of the ending, new sales must have slowed at least to the degree that somebody on high demanded action. You see it in any creative medium. Movies bomb after a couple weeks because of how terrible their endings were. Books fall off the bestseller list based on whether or not someone's memoirs were faked. Word gets around.

The Twitter activity, the forum engagement, the interviews... this is a business in panic mode. I feel bad for the front line responders, who had no real impact on the development cycle, yet have to deal with the brunt of the reaction. It's not their fault, yet they have to maintain loyalty to shareholder dividends over customer satisfaction. I sympathize.

They have no idea that this isn't going to simply blow over.

Modifié par Kierkegaardianite, 15 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[PiEman]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Good thing George Lucas didn't listen to public sentiment and change the Empire Strikes Back ending. It was a firestorm back when it came out. it is now considered by many (myself included since I first saw it) to be the finest film in the series. Downer endings were a much larger taboo then and this is nothing compared to that. Just let them do their job of making the content.

That'd be more like if Mass Effect 2 had had a downer ending.

This was the finale of a trilogy, and people aren't angry because it was depressing. They're angry because it made everything Bioware said about our decisions mattering into a massive lie.

[Fawx9]

Syrellaris wrote...

jerrinehart wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Gwtheyrn wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

i like the ending choices mainly because its something new and yes it gives you a choice with all 3

lets be honest here the reason why people are so up in arms is because they didnt get a full on explination of the noramdy crew

if they included that explination how much you want to bet that there would be another bogus excuse to protest against something else?

No, it isn't new at all. This same ending was done in a game called Deus-Ex back over a decade ago. In fact, this is eerily similar with the ability to make decisions which have affects on the gameplay up until the end... where you have a choice between Controlling the system, destroying the system, or merging with the system.

Correct, the ending is nothing new.  In fact it just seems alien to the franchise.  The Normandy crew is just one of many problems with the endings.  There also the issue of why the Normandy is fleeing a battle scene in the first place?  Or how certain people even got on the Normandy, or where Sword fleet is. Theres a dozen more, but I don't want to spoil the entire game right here.

I would like to know your reasoning behind the problems you associate with the normandy crew?

Seriously?  
Here read this.

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/6/

I read some of that and I simply dont agree, but it still  does not answer the following "the normandy crew is just one of the many problems"

Page 3 of the articule covers some of the plot holes, including the normandy one.

[Sentr0]

Syrellaris wrote...

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

this is just trolling, stop it please

[LegendaryBlade]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

I'm glad you guys are at least taking it seriously. 

I think it's a little more than noteworthy that the game has hardly been out over a week and already 47k people have given their thoughts on the ending. More telling that the Facebook page to completely change the ending has over 30k likes.

High emotion and lack of reason and perspective is always highest just after release, thats is why these forums become a hostile place every single time a title comes out and people warn others to avoid the forums during first few weeks until those angry about any change whatever it is cool their heads and gain some perspective. With every new title the hostility becomes more regardless of what title because people seem to think it is more okay to be more agressive with threats and such shown over past few months where it reached unacceptable levels (twitter incident). Every title it has got worse and it is the fans who got worse in how they treat the developers and their work rather than how the developer treats the fans being much different.

I'm sorry but this has gone WELL beyond the relm of blaming it on high emotions and lack of reason, you can't just dismiss this. The facebook numbers are growing at a rate of 5,000+ a night, the donations have exceeded $40,000 dollars, and there'sa new thread every hour from someone who beat the game wanting to know if anybody else thought the ending was as terrible as they did.

DA2 was just an explosion of angry forum threads that died down(and people had a right to be dissapointed in DA2). This is well beyond that. It's a eanest, organized attemptto get the fans what we were promised. Endings that couldn't be defined as "A, B, or C".

[Kanner]

Listening (or not), the awkward question is what exactly they can do?

The whole game is set up around <<mechanism>> which queues directly into the finish and the for want of a better word resolution.

For me the whole thing started to fall over the moment the Reapers arrived on Earth. It was not clear at that point what could be done with so little preparation against such a powerful enemy - thus, already indicating that whatever solution emerged would likely be awkwardly thrown together at best.

While I wasn't expecting the sheer magnitude of the awfulness to come, I'm not seeing a whole lot of options for them vis-a-vie 'fixing the ending'.

...other than they could give me a refund. That would be nice, and moderately acceptable going forward. It's a significant issue that it cost a lot of money to be emotionally brutalised like this - George Lucas only wanted $10 for the privilege. =/

[PiEman]

EastsideJK wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

It's not about predicting the future. I can't believe that you truly believe what you just said. There is definitely some basic guidelines to producing an ending that won't have 47,000 people voting negatively on a single poll 7 days after a game is released. I'd love to see another game that had such an insane amount of people vote negatively about an ending on a single relatively obscure poll in such a short time.

Here's how to succesfully predict whether your ending is going to make the public mad. (47,000 votes should be more than enough to warrant saying "public").

-Does this ending have gaping plot holes?
-Does this ending match what we have been saying during SEVERAL interviews throughout the development cycle?
-Does this ending match the overall feel of the game?

So lets apply that to mass effect 3.

-Gaping plot holes abound.  I won't bother listing them all because I'm sure you've already read them all plenty of times. There is no way they could've all slipped under the radar.
-Preview interviews explicitly stated that the endings would be a culmination of our choices throughout the 3 games. It stated there would be diverse endings. It's not like something was taken out of context, this was stated multiple times via multiple different interviews. It was definitely not stated that there would be 3 endings and the only real difference is color.
-The ending felt like a completely different game. It abandoned everything the game stood for. In the end none of your choices mattered. As long as you had enough EMS your choices meant NOTHING. 

And you are really saying that there was no way you guys could've predicted that a large amount of people would be mad over the ending? That's absolutely ridiculous. It's not a matter of being psychic. No one likes plots holes, no one likes when they are told to expect something and that something is completely opposite when it comes out, and no one likes when every decision they made over 3 games is completely negated and pointless.

All. Of. This.

Modifié par PiEman, 15 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[Sublyminal]

leonia42 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Oh, I wouldn't want that... but a "swear jar" for the forum might be nice.

This ought to come standard with every forum account.

Eww, I'd be broke.

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

High emotion and lack of reason and perspective is always highest just after release, thats is why these forums become a hostile place every single time a title comes out and people warn others to avoid the forums during first few weeks until those angry about any change whatever it is cool their heads and gain some perspective.

"The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback. And a large portion of those dissatisfied with the ME3 endings are cautioning others to keep the criticism constructive, to be respectful to the developers, and to remain civil in their arguments. I appreciate that a great deal, and I thank you and the rest of our community for that."  --Woo

[jfood]

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

[Dragoonlordz]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

High emotion and lack of reason and perspective is always highest just after release, thats is why these forums become a hostile place every single time a title comes out and people warn others to avoid the forums during first few weeks until those angry about any change whatever it is cool their heads and gain some perspective. With every new title the hostility becomes more regardless of what title because people seem to think it is more okay to be more agressive with threats and such shown over past few months where it reached unacceptable levels (twitter incident). Every title it has got worse and it is the fans who got worse in how they treat the developers and their work rather than how the developer treats the fans being much different.

Sometimes I wonder if you live in a dillusional world.

Anyway, your posts are either always aggressive, dismissive, or downright insulting to someone.

Wait was that a personal attack? Should I report you like you tried to do with me for when I said I assumed you would do as others would do? ....Mouse edges closer to the report button.. Nah I prefer not to sink to your level. 

[Syrellaris]

Sentr0 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

this is just trolling, stop it please

Right, ofcourse, you disagree so you call it trolling.

Fact is, polls with such limited amount of people (or research data if you will) will always be inaccurate. They never ever show what the majority wants, it is just what the minority (or those asked) want. Nothing else.

[devil_foetus]

add in a 4th ending
galaxy is united, reapers are defeated, mass relays do not explode
epilogue shows all the choices you made and what happened to your crew
you live happily ever after with your LI, tone depends on morality

Modifié par devil_foetus, 15 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[aksoileau]

Syrellaris wrote...

I would like to know your reasoning behind the problems you associate with the normandy crew?

Ok sure,  I took Ashley and Garrus to the very end.  The Normandy is in space at that moment in a space battle.  Your kodiak shuttle is destroyed.  Harbinger is camping the portal, no ship is getting through that.  Yet Ashley and Garrus stick their heads out in the end cutscene from the Normandy.  Sooo how did they get on the Normandy?  No one knows what's occuring in the citadel, the explosions are nearly instantaneous, yet Joker is somehow piloting the Normandy away from the pick your color explosion?  Why is it the only ship shown fleeing?  Its one of thousands. 

Where the rest of the crew?  There's only 2 or so who step out.   I could write a lot of more, but seriously it just upsets me.

And thats just the Normandy issue.  There is still the entire Shepard laying in rubble issue and many other theories.

Modifié par aksoileau, 15 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[Headrusher]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[Rockworm503]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

I'm sorry Stan but I'm no longer convinced of any of it.

For the first part "to develop the game to please you"
How bout simply develop the game you promised us?
I haven't even put my copy of ME3 on the site yet because I don't feel excited about owning it anymore.
I was willing to look past the Origin debate.
I was willing to overlook first day DLC which btw is on the disc.
I even defended the endings.
Time and time again I'm just hearing the lies over and over.
If you truly listened to your fans this wouldn't even be happening.
I feel so alienated by this whole experience i wish I never discovered Mass Effect because then my heart wouldn't be so broken like this.
And the thing that hurts the most is that I wanted so much to believe you guys.

[Syrellaris]

[quote]Fawx9 wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]jerrinehart wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]aksoileau wrote...

[quote]Gwtheyrn wrote...

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...


[/quote]

Seriously?  
Here read this.

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/6/



[/quote]

I read some of that and I simply dont agree, but it still  does not answer the following "the normandy crew is just one of the many problems"

[/quote]

Page 3 of the articule covers some of the plot holes, including the normandy one.

[/quote]

Hmm, Funny enough I experienced very little plot holes or questions unanswered. Therefor, I do not agree with pretty much anything in that article.

Modifié par Syrellaris, 15 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[rexil]

Syrellaris wrote...

kbct wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Well, another thing that should be note-worthy is only 2% liked the ending as-is. Only 2 people out of 100? While it is self-selecting, that low percentage must be note-worthy along with the 47K voters.

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

You should take a look outside this forum. Every game media site that has a poll has the same result, with different ranges on vote numbers.

[Sublyminal]

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

Tthat's going a little far dude, QA is a very need profession in the gaming industry. No need to disrespect him because of his position in BW.

Modifié par Sublyminal, 15 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[philippe willaume]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I find 40,000 poll voters to be very significant, and even though that isn't the 1.86 million in sales you all have, I'd still say it would cover more than half of your ME fanbase.

Stan, tell me I'm wrong... honestly...

40 K is massive sample. in fact the confidence interval with such a sample is very very high.
By modern standard even a 1000, usually done for presidential election is a big sample.

However the point that Stanley was making is that the sample is slanted.
IE It is not a random sample by a type of population was much more likely to respond to the survey.
From a statistical stand point this is not wrong. That being said that type of question tend to generate a resistance effect after a while.
In anycase, we can safely assume that the magnitude of the discontentment is far beyond the usual threshold of the “normal curve”
As well, if you have worked in customer service,, it clearly show that a little less than 30 k people where bothered enough to express their discontentment. This is not an insignificant figure

[RocketManSR2]

Lay off the personal attacks, everyone. Enough is enough.