1109 réponses à ce sujet

[lordhugorune]

kbct wrote...

"The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback.

For the most part that's true. It doesn't mean some of the feedback hasn't been over the top, irrational, and in some cases abusive, but game devs have learned to develop a thick skin, and it's pleasing that they're listening carefully to the stuff that is constructive. I'm hoping that there are going to be clarifications and extensions to the ending, but as we can see, we will have to be patient before we know for sure what they are doing.

[Brahlis]

Don't know if it's been asked, but is there any timeframe for an official response?

[Syrellaris]

rexil wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

kbct wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Well, another thing that should be note-worthy is only 2% liked the ending as-is. Only 2 people out of 100? While it is self-selecting, that low percentage must be note-worthy along with the 47K voters.

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

You should take a look outside this forum. Every game media site that has a poll has the same result, with different ranges on vote numbers.

of which most likely the same people voting here are voting there, with th exception of a few new ones.

[Sublyminal]

[Let's not perpetuate the off-topic comments, please.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[HiroVoid]

Headrusher wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

darkshadow136 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

I'm glad you guys are at least taking it seriously. 

I think it's a little more than noteworthy that the game has hardly been out over a week and already 47k people have given their thoughts on the ending. More telling that the Facebook page to completely change the ending has over 30k likes.

High emotion and lack of reason and perspective is always highest just after release, thats is why these forums become a hostile place every single time a title comes out and people warn others to avoid the forums during first few weeks until those angry about any change whatever it is cool their heads and gain some perspective. With every new title the hostility becomes more regardless of what title because people seem to think it is more okay to be more agressive with threats and such shown over past few months where it reached unacceptable levels (twitter incident). Every title it has got worse and it is the fans who got worse in how they treat the developers and their work rather than how the developer treats the fans being much different.

Nice avatar, a naruto fan are we? How old are you again?

Please don't attack people directly.  If you're going to disagree with someone, do it with their post.  I dislike Naruto, but even if it was a Twilight avatar, it's just not good form to go after that.  Also, it ends up devolving in personal attacks on both sides.

[John Epler]

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

And this is an example of how not to respond, folks.

Keep it civil and respectful.

[Dragoonlordz]

Headrusher wrote...

Nice avatar, a naruto fan are we? How old are you again?

Thirty-one thanks for asking. Why? Do you see a problem with using an animated character overeacting in chibi form which maches the format of the forum posting on to be childish? Because it is however there is nothing wrong with finding such funny at any age.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[jimbo32]

Syrellaris wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

this is just trolling, stop it please

Right, ofcourse, you disagree so you call it trolling.

Fact is, polls with such limited amount of people (or research data if you will) will always be inaccurate. They never ever show what the majority wants, it is just what the minority (or those asked) want. Nothing else.

So what polling method would satisfy your high standards of accuracy? One million people polled from streetcorners around the world regardless of whether they played the game or not? Please lay it out for us.

[kbct]

Kierkegaardianite wrote...

This is a business in panic mode. I know, I've been part of one.

You're pulled in a lot of different directions, and even moreso in an interactive and creative environment like game development. They can't come right out and admit that they rushed and/or botched the ending, because the game is still in its prime selling zone. They will never admit before the initial sales cycle that anything is wrong, or that any of your concerns are valid, because that would hurt sales from people who don't frequent sites such as this one. That anything is even being attempted at this point for damage control is already a testament to player reaction and current financial data. If players are anything like me, they bought the day-one DLC, bought a few cheap MP packs, and then continued to beat the game. I'm more than willing to spend a couple bucks here and there on MP unlocks since the opportunity cost is better for me to simply buy it than grind it, but since seeing the ending I have not spent an extra cent on the game.

Were I looking at the analytics of what players spent during the game versus what they spent after finishing it once, I would be pissing my pants. I can't imagine that it is anything less than abysmal.

In addition to people like me, willing ATMs of SP/MP DLC, who -- despite trying to play again -- have been turned away because of the inept handling of the ending, new sales must have slowed at least to the degree that somebody on high demanded action. You see it in any creative medium. Movies bomb after a couple weeks because of how terrible their endings were. Books fall off the bestseller list based on whether or not someone's memoirs were faked. Word gets around.

The Twitter activity, the forum engagement, the interviews... this is a business in panic mode. I feel bad for the front line responders, who had no real impact on the development cycle, yet have to deal with the brunt of the reaction. It's not their fault, yet they have to maintain loyalty to shareholder dividends over customer satisfaction. I sympathize.

They have no idea that this isn't going to simply blow over.

This is the third "insider" response I've read. All concluded the same thing.

[A Paperback Hero]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

But in essence aren't you suppose to develop the game to please the player? Why should the player buy a game meant to please the developer and not the purchaser. I think the development staff needs to take economics 101.

Furthermore the website advertises.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

- Mass Effect 3 Official site.

I fail to see how color palette swaps on a laser beam accounts for radically different endings. This is false advertising at it's worst.

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 15 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[jerrinehart]

Syrellaris wrote...

jerrinehart wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Gwtheyrn wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

i like the ending choices mainly because its something new and yes it gives you a choice with all 3

lets be honest here the reason why people are so up in arms is because they didnt get a full on explination of the noramdy crew

if they included that explination how much you want to bet that there would be another bogus excuse to protest against something else?

No, it isn't new at all. This same ending was done in a game called Deus-Ex back over a decade ago. In fact, this is eerily similar with the ability to make decisions which have affects on the gameplay up until the end... where you have a choice between Controlling the system, destroying the system, or merging with the system.

Correct, the ending is nothing new.  In fact it just seems alien to the franchise.  The Normandy crew is just one of many problems with the endings.  There also the issue of why the Normandy is fleeing a battle scene in the first place?  Or how certain people even got on the Normandy, or where Sword fleet is. Theres a dozen more, but I don't want to spoil the entire game right here.

I would like to know your reasoning behind the problems you associate with the normandy crew?

Seriously?  
Here read this.

www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/6/

I read some of that and I simply dont agree, but it still  does not answer the following "the normandy crew is just one of the many problems"

If you can't grasp what is wrong with the Normandy and the people on it suddenly in hyperspace after what we just saw, the entire crew was on the ground fighting, then suddenly some of them appear on the ship?  and what they were doing,  how did they get there, how did they know to try and leave, how did they know the mass relays were going to be destroyed,  THEY EXPLAINED nothing after hundreds of hours of this incredible story then just blam, here this makes no sense but watch it anyway. I  don't know how else to explain the plotholes to you, it's simply that obvious. It's just bad storytelling plain and simple.

Modifié par jerrinehart, 15 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[John Epler]

And let's cut out this whole personal attacks tangent, or more bans will be getting handed out.

[Syrellaris]

JohnEpler wrote...

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

And this is an example of how not to respond, folks.

Keep it civil and respectful.

Or you could just lock the thread and be done with it.

[dragonage200200]

devil_foetus wrote...

add in a 4th ending
galaxy is united, reapers are defeated, mass relays do not explode
EPIlogue shows all the choices you made and what happened to your crew
you live happily ever after with your LI, tone depends on morality

[Alexraptor1]

I see the same pattern repeat itself all over the internet.
Even non-gaming forums have off-topic threads about ME3, where the vast majority of the posters dislike the ending.
So I think its safe to say that the vast majority dislike the ending.

[somecthemes]

"Seriously, you guys just keep pouring into the forum. It's unbelievable.

I know, reasonableness, a rather clear perception of reality as being something other than that which flits in our imagination, the shift has to be a pretty heady one, here, but don't stand too quickly or you might fall down.
Really, though, I'm guessing if your not calling a dev or mod a son of the devil and wasting a lot of time ranting about ideas proposed and completely side stepped by a further posters 3 pages prior in the thread, it might seem a waste of effort to try a dialog.
Think of it this way, maybe for every hypertension induced raging at the forums there are twenty who feel the same but can't get their caffine jitters calm enough to type, while there a fifty to one ratio for those tame souls also wanting to post, but realizing the forces involved and immediately giving up,
That's not to say you shouldn't post or feel perfectly free to be snotty about it, but that maybe you should encourage saner discussion, so as to atleast appear more noteworthy.

Note: Not a personal attack, just a different idea of how things might better be resolved.

Modifié par somecthemes, 15 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Syrellaris wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

And this is an example of how not to respond, folks.

Keep it civil and respectful.

Or you could just lock the thread and be done with it.

'Fans' would claim bias or censorship as have done in the past when they do that. It is better to continue debate if people can keep it moderately civil.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[LegendaryBlade]

philippe willaume wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I find 40,000 poll voters to be very significant, and even though that isn't the 1.86 million in sales you all have, I'd still say it would cover more than half of your ME fanbase.

Stan, tell me I'm wrong... honestly...

40 K is massive sample. in fact the confidence interval with such a sample is very very high.
By modern standard even a 1000, usually done for presidential election is a big sample.

However the point that Stanley was making is that the sample is slanted.
IE It is not a random sample by a type of population was much more likely to respond to the survey.
From a statistical stand point this is not wrong. That being said that type of question tend to generate a resistance effect after a while.
In anycase, we can safely assume that the magnitude of the discontentment is far beyond the usual threshold of the “normal curve”
As well, if you have worked in customer service,, it clearly show that a little less than 30 k people where bothered enough to express their discontentment. This is not an insignificant figure

Actually, i'm pretty sure Mr. Woo's point was DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL.

The sample is probably a bit biased, 'slanted' if you will. But even if you tried to account for that the ammount of people who dislike the ending over the people who voted in favorof the endings is absolutely massive. And it's not like these forums, or that poll, are limited to people whop disliked the ending. Anybody who's been on the forum at all the last few days, regardless of their opinion, has likely seen it.

[Headrusher]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Headrusher wrote...

Nice avatar, a naruto fan are we? How old are you again?

Thirty-one thanks for asking. Why? Do you see a problem with using an animated character overeacting in chibi form which maches the format of the forum posting on to be childish? Because it is however there is nothing wrong with finding such funny at any age.

Just curious. Carry on sir/ma'am.

[Mr. Siegal]

A tad off topic, but you have to feel bad for Stanley Woo. His job is to take the flak for the devs. He's BioWare's tank.

[Kanner]

Yes, but Stanley is glossing over the fact that it's entirely unprecedented in the history of gaming.

There really hasn't been anything like this since Revenge of the Sith. Which, of course, also was an episode 3 that only really completely broke your heart right at the end. =/

[Dragoonlordz]

Headrusher wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Headrusher wrote...

Nice avatar, a naruto fan are we? How old are you again?

Thirty-one thanks for asking. Why? Do you see a problem with using an animated character overeacting in chibi form which maches the format of the forum posting on to be childish? Because it is however there is nothing wrong with finding such funny at any age.

Just curious. Carry on sir/ma'am.

Okay no problem, I figured it was a loaded question.

[Fawx9]

Syrellaris wrote...

Hmm, Funny enough I experienced very little plot holes or questions unanswered. Therefor, I do not agree with pretty much anything in that article.

Please explain to me then, how did my squad get onto the normandy when they were on earth, right beside me, and then end up in the relay next to Pluto

And while you're at it explain how this isn't character suicide considering we had all just decided to stick together until the end not even 30 minute ago.

[Farbautisonn]

Syrellaris wrote...
Right, ofcourse, you disagree so you call it trolling.

Fact is, polls with such limited amount of people (or research data if you will) will always be inaccurate. They never ever show what the majority wants, it is just what the minority (or those asked) want. Nothing else.

Its not a matter of disagreeing. Its a matter of Scientific Method. Polling. Methodology. 1k polled is thought to be standard to get a decent poll in my nation of 5 million for an election. In your nation its 4k.

Your insistance that 40plus K polled is insignificant and trivil is naive at best and something entirely else at worst.