1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Sentr0]

Syrellaris wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

this is just trolling, stop it please

Right, ofcourse, you disagree so you call it trolling.

Fact is, polls with such limited amount of people (or research data if you will) will always be inaccurate. They never ever show what the majority wants, it is just what the minority (or those asked) want. Nothing else.

That's how statistic works, saying "polls with such limited amount of people (50k)" shows only how ignorant you are (sorry but it's the truth). Also if you have a better sample go ahead and show us... otherwise that is

Modifié par Sentr0, 15 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[addiction21]

JohnEpler wrote...

And let's cut out this whole personal attacks tangent, or more bans will be getting handed out.

I vote to hand out more waffles. If the bans come with waffles that is also acceptable

Syrellaris wrote...

Or you could just lock the thread and be done with it.

And feed into the fascist mod censorship theories? No thank you.

[Syrellaris]

aLucidMind wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

jfood wrote...

Haha... they might as well have rolled out a janitor and the slow kid who empties the recycling bins to dialog with the fans.

"Hi, I'm Dave, I chase cats off the property at Bioware Edmonton... and I chose blue Shepard! I like blue more than green, so it was the best one."

And this is an example of how not to respond, folks.

Keep it civil and respectful.

Or you could just lock the thread and be done with it.

The community being civil would result in a lot less complaining than threads being locked because, as soon as a thread gets locked, someone normally begins to complain about that.

True but when a thread becomes hostile, it is perhaps better to lock it and deal with the aftermath with a few bans.

[Headrusher]

I think a poll Bioware would be satisfied with would have to be completely scientific, polling gamers from around the world who have played ME3, with R squared values calculated, etc.

Oh wait, that isn't possible? But you DO have 40,000 pissed off fans that you choose to ignore? OK, got it.

[kbct]

Syrellaris wrote...

rexil wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

kbct wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Darth Malignus wrote...

And now almost 47.000 people have voted on the poll, which by now could be called the semi-official poll on the forum.

I'm still curious, Mr. Woo. How many people need to vote, before the sample size is accurate in your mind? Still holding off, until ALL who bought it give a vote?

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Well, another thing that should be note-worthy is only 2% liked the ending as-is. Only 2 people out of 100? While it is self-selecting, that low percentage must be note-worthy along with the 47K voters.

Because the poll itself does not say anything. Polls this small (throw in the statistics use much smaller numbers, all you want) does not represent the entire community.

You should take a look outside this forum. Every game media site that has a poll has the same result, with different ranges on vote numbers.

of which most likely the same people voting here are voting there, with th exception of a few new ones.

Fine, you don't believe the poll. Most people with a knowledge of statistics believe the poll has predictive power.

[LegendaryBlade]

Headrusher wrote...

I think a poll Bioware would be satisfied with would have to be completely scientific, polling gamers from around the world who have played ME3, with R squared values calculated, etc.

Oh wait, that isn't possible? But you DO have 40,000 pissed off fans that you choose to ignore? OK, got it.

The poll size could most likely of been two or three times bigger and they would of feed us the same response. It's either PR talk or they're absolutely blind.

[London]

I want a happy ending with love interest. I don't see why they need twitter traffic when there are so many polls and answers here already.

[syllogi]

Mr. Siegal wrote...

A tad off topic, but you have to feel bad for Stanley Woo. His job is to take the flak for the devs. He's BioWare's tank.

Well, it's not even in his job description, if I'm not mistaken.  He and John Epler are just being cool by talking to us plebes.  They may or may not have been asked to moderate the forums, but I doubt they've been told to just *talk* to the public politely.

Having the devs talk to the fans is why I've been hanging around the Bioware forums pretty much since the BG2 board moved from the Interplay site to its own on bioware.com.  It's appreciated.

[Volus Warlord]

Headrusher wrote...

I think a poll Bioware would be satisfied with would have to be completely scientific, polling gamers from around the world who have played ME3, with R squared values calculated, etc.

Oh wait, that isn't possible? But you DO have 40,000 pissed off fans that you choose to ignore? OK, got it.

You need multiple samples for an R2 value.. ah nvm.

[Stanley Woo]

And let's all please remember that we are still in a No Spoilers forum. Thank you.

[Teddie Sage]

I'm actually surprised that Stanley didn't shut down this thread in the first place. I got so much used to the End of the line, that I started to think he was a bot. No offence, but I prefer the more human Stanley Woo.

And now I'll zip my mouth because I'm going off-topic.

This thread actually made me understand a few things... I'm still pissed, but at least it feels like there might be a slight chance of cooperation between the fans and the game developers, in a near future.

[Siegdrifa]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

But in essence aren't you suppose to develop the game to please the player? Why should the player buy a game meant to please the developer and not the purchaser. I think the development staff needs to take economics 101.

Furthermore the website advertises.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

- Mass Effect 3 Official site.

I fail to see how color palette swaps on a laser beam accounts for radically different endings. This is false advertising at it's worst.

To be pleased is subjective and not all individual share the same stimuli that trigger "pleasing".

[HiroVoid]

Personally, I'd be interested if Gamefaqs did a poll on it, but I don't think they do polls like that.

[jerrinehart]

Happy, sad, mad, upset, teary eyed, I don't care. people might be upset with sad endings, that I can deal with as long as I can understand what is going on and it makes a little sense. That's all we want.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr. Siegal wrote...

A tad off topic, but you have to feel bad for Stanley Woo. His job is to take the flak for the devs. He's BioWare's tank.

I mostly bring it upon myself, because I like interacting with our community.

[lordhugorune]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Actually, i'm pretty sure Mr. Woo's point was DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL.

The sample is probably a bit biased, 'slanted' if you will. But even if you tried to account for that the ammount of people who dislike the ending over the people who voted in favorof the endings is absolutely massive. And it's not like these forums, or that poll, are limited to people whop disliked the ending. Anybody who's been on the forum at all the last few days, regardless of their opinion, has likely seen it.

I don't think there is any denai here, it's clear they acknowledge this is a real issue and it is very clearly implied that they are keeping the option open to change things in the future.

But there are a number of genuine issues with polls on the issue here, and in other community areas. The fundamental one is that the sample's self-selected. People came here, they read threads of people who were pissed off about the ending, and then they went and voted on polls set up by people who were also pissed off about the ending. That's all well and good and it demonstrates that a lot of people are unhappy, but it doesn't give them hard data.

The fact that Bioware are actively attempting to solicit feedback through other ways indicates, however, that they do take this issue seriously, they are trying to accurately work out what the fanbase thinks, and they are looking for a resolution that is mutually agreeable to all the stakeholders, including the fans, the developers and the writers, and the business owners. You can call it damage control, you can call it responding to the community's wants, whatever. But denial it is not.

[Syrellaris]

[All right, that's enough. Cut it out, please.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...
Right, ofcourse, you disagree so you call it trolling.

Fact is, polls with such limited amount of people (or research data if you will) will always be inaccurate. They never ever show what the majority wants, it is just what the minority (or those asked) want. Nothing else.

Its not a matter of disagreeing. Its a matter of Scientific Method. Polling. Methodology. 1k polled is thought to be standard to get a decent poll in my nation of 5 million for an election. In your nation its 4k.

Your insistance that 40plus K polled is insignificant and trivil is naive at best and something entirely else at worst.

Farby you have to also realize those polls can be voted on more than once.

[kbct]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Mr. Siegal wrote...

A tad off topic, but you have to feel bad for Stanley Woo. His job is to take the flak for the devs. He's BioWare's tank.

I mostly bring it upon myself, because I like interacting with our community.

Gotta say, I like that response. But why wait so long to respond?

[Eradyn]

Let's keep in mind this 40k+ poll does NOT exist in a vacuum. It has been publicly referenced, and linked directly to, repeatedly across the internet, from Forbes to regular gaming sites and countless forums. 40k+ respondents to a poll is statistically sound, even after calculating slant. Ignore or publicly marginalize it at your own peril, Bioware.

[Farbautisonn]

I cant wait to see the Korean Reaction... they are religious with their games.

[InvincibleHero]

PiEman wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Good thing George Lucas didn't listen to public sentiment and change the Empire Strikes Back ending. It was a firestorm back when it came out. it is now considered by many (myself included since I first saw it) to be the finest film in the series. Downer endings were a much larger taboo then and this is nothing compared to that. Just let them do their job of making the content.

That'd be more like if Mass Effect 2 had had a downer ending.

This was the finale of a trilogy, and people aren't angry because it was depressing. They're angry because it made everything Bioware said about our decisions mattering into a massive lie.

Why? Just because both came second well in actuallity ESB was the fifth movie. ESB was much grimmer and a much more reviled ending. Point is people accepted it after awhile and realized how wonderful it was. People are letting their anger run rampant. We have no right to like an ending of any meadia period. The creator has that say.

Your decisions mattered because everything you did got you to that point. Shepard was the final piece to the puzzle that saves the galaxy and all the races primed to be reaped. it is a happy ending in a way you break the cycle and save the fuuture and present regardless of the choice.