1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Malignus]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Okidoki.

Ontopic. When can we expect a formal response to the issues at hand?

You may start expecting one whenever you like.

Oh man, that is typical Woo and Priestly style moderating right there. lol

How about a real answer now?

What makes you think he actually knows that yet?

[Ozai75]

Stanley, are you allowed to discuss what you think of our opinions and our distaste for the ending of an otherwise brilliant game, and if you are what would it be?

Oh, and slightly off topic..since you use End of Line does that make you Sark and Bioware MCP? Cause you know.. Tron is awesome

[Fawx9]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Okidoki.

Ontopic. When can we expect a formal response to the issues at hand?

You may start expecting one whenever you like.

Uhh if we are talking about problems with the ending, then can you confirm/deny the fact that it's only possible to get ~3800 EMS with SP alone.

I know the sticky above use would tell us otherwise, and that it is possible to get 4000+, but all indications simply point to the current avaible points to be insufficient.

I really don't think you've intended to force people to buy Xbox Live Gold in order to unlock endings in your SP game.

Again that's EMS we are asking about NOT TMS.

Modifié par Fawx9, 15 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[somecthemes]

@Woo
Would suprise be the right word for your reaction to the reaction at the ending?

Modifié par somecthemes, 15 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[Heimdall]

wj_1985 wrote...

i meant self-selecting sample doesn't mean it's not random, sorry.

Actually it does.  Frankly the problem with many Internet polls is that they attract those they feel the need to air their grievances not those that have no grievances.  Those that had no great issue with the endings of Mass Effect 3, like myself, feel no great need to participate.

This is why any self selecting poll is by its nature an unclear indicator.

[Dragoonlordz]

PiEman wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

But in essence aren't you suppose to develop the game to please the player? Why should the player buy a game meant to please the developer and not the purchaser. I think the development staff needs to take economics 101.

Furthermore the website advertises.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

- Mass Effect 3 Official site.

I fail to see how color palette swaps on a laser beam accounts for radically different endings. This is false advertising at it's worst.

To be pleased is subjective and not all individual share the same stimuli that trigger "pleasing".

Okay.

But where in the hell did they find the group of people that found an ending riddled with plot holes, detached from the rest of the game, and blatantly unlike everything Bioware had promised in the past a "pleasing stimuli"?

Well I liked it. So I guess that would make me one.

Like I have said in the past I do not treat any game not even ME franchise as a dictionary or thesaurus, a biography or documentary or require everything to be answered. I treat it as a form of entertainment. In that it succedded and hence the enjoyment. I also have stated you will never get 100% closure on everything because the outcomes are infinite over time. You make choice x save it saves y (closure), he goes on and lives happy life or sad one (closure), he had a child and that child went on and lived his life (closure) again and goes on forever. How much is enough is subjective. If you require facts to enjoy yourgames as opposed to emotional response to enjoy a game then so be it but as a form of entertainment it did just fine by me and I have been a long time member of Biowares community and purchaser of their titles like many others so I will ask you leave out any snide comments or silly generalisations just incase you think about doing so. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[Farbautisonn]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Okidoki.

Ontopic. When can we expect a formal response to the issues at hand?

You may start expecting one whenever you like.

-Ok. Do you like waffles?

[macroberts]

The problem with the forum poll isn't that it doesn't make a high enough sample size. The sample size is more than enough. But, as Stanley's mentioned earlier, the poll is a self-select poll. A sample size is only relevant where you randomly select a number of people from the population you're trying to survey. Asking a question to the population and waiting for a response would inevitably result in numbers which skew towards the more passionate (I will avoid the word extreme, because it isn't) reactions and responses to the question asked. Furthermore, asking for responses bring in other problems like multiple voting, lobbied votes, and so on. This is why an internet poll is almost always inaccurate, because it doesn't reflect anything more than what the most passionate feel about the subject, and the level of passion they feel. A more reliable poll would be if BioWare launched their own poll through Origin (or whatever) to a random sample, and get a result there.

Having said that, the fact that 47k people took the time out to click a button might give an indication as to the high passions running in this issue. But it is, I reiterate, it is not the most accurate barometer.

I can somewhat understand BioWare taking time in responding, since the issue is with the ending, and to talk about the ending will ruin it for those who haven't gotten that far (you might say it's about to be ruined anyway, but that's a whole different thread). I too am disappointed with the ending (very, very disappointed, considering how utterly incredible the rest of the game was), but I'm willing to be patient and see if any response is forthcoming later on down the track.

After all, considering how patient Stanley's been with us, I feel it's only fair I be patient with them.

[WarBaby2]

aLucidMind wrote...
Their hands are likely tied due to rules that keep them from giving a straight, real answer. So I doubt we will get one until they're authorized to say anything about the subject.

Yea, well, in that case: Thanks for the message, BioWare.

All further info you might need can be found here:

http://retakemasseff...ect-childs-play

[Stanley Woo]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Oh man, that is typical Woo and Priestly style moderating right there. lol

How about a real answer now?

You haven't been listening to us at all, have you?

[Euphori Sixx]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

Well then who in the world did you develop the game to please?  Yourselves? Jebus?

[Scarpo]

I'm just upset over the fact that everyone think we are just whiny ***holes because we are disappointed by the ending and we're expressing the fact. Oh and that we're actually trying to do something about it.

I feel like these two links don't exactly help either...

http://www.destructo...gs-223814.phtml

http://www.destructo...ty-223811.phtml

[Teddie Sage]

Euphori Sixx wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

Well then who in the world did you develop the game to please?  Yourselves? Jebus?

I don't think he can answer to that. He's only part of the QA. Bugs, lags and glitches reports. I think.

[jeweledleah]

InvincibleHero wrote...

PiEman wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Good thing George Lucas didn't listen to public sentiment and change the Empire Strikes Back ending. It was a firestorm back when it came out. it is now considered by many (myself included since I first saw it) to be the finest film in the series. Downer endings were a much larger taboo then and this is nothing compared to that. Just let them do their job of making the content.

That'd be more like if Mass Effect 2 had had a downer ending.

This was the finale of a trilogy, and people aren't angry because it was depressing. They're angry because it made everything Bioware said about our decisions mattering into a massive lie.

Why? Just because both came second well in actuallity ESB was the fifth movie. ESB was much grimmer and a much more reviled ending. Point is people accepted it after awhile and realized how wonderful it was. People are letting their anger run rampant. We have no right to like an ending of any meadia period. The creator has that say.

Your decisions mattered because everything you did got you to that point. Shepard was the final piece to the puzzle that saves the galaxy and all the races primed to be reaped. it is a happy ending in a way you break the cycle and save the fuuture and present regardless of the choice.

empire strikes back was a movie number 5 and people knew that movie number 6 was coming.  and movie numbers 6?  has a happy ending.

its much easier to live with a downer ending when you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel, when you know that the story is on over yet.

Mass Effect 3 is IT for Shepard.  the final instalment.  and that's why people want closure.  also - without going into spoilers to much, regardless of which ending you chose, this sycle is not salvageable.   the galaxy is still screwed. what Shepard DID was potentialy stop another cycle from happening (I'm saying potentialy, becasue in case of one of the endings, in 50k years, who knows what happens...)  to call this ending bittersweet would be very optimistic.  YMMV of course.

lastly.  there a huge difference between a movie.  and interactive experience that developers CLAIM in an interview was co-written with the fans.  (and concidering ammount of fan service in ME3, some of it directly pulled from character support threads, fan art meme's etc.  yeah.  it really was).  when developers open themselves up to fan feedback in such a manner, and actualy encorporate it.  you cannot just  scream "artistic integrity!  its their story!"  becasue it no longer is.

I'm glad they seem to be still listening to feedback.  all feedback, not just  "I'm going to defend bioware, becasue I like playing devi's advocate" feedback.  I except it will take a fair bit of time to formulate a responce.  I was impatient back when bioware was staying completely silent.  but now that they are showing that they just haven't formulated final response yet?  I'm willing to wait for it.

P.S>  could someone please explain to me what exactly makes downer ending artisticaly better then a happy one?  and why is it a desire for an option of a happy ending somehow seen as a bad thing?  immature thing?  I don't know about you all, but i'm old enough to have delat with plenty of downer endings in real life, I'm past the age when I wanted to seek out fictional drama becasue my real life didn't have enough strife in it.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[DigitalMaster37]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Oh man, that is typical Woo and Priestly style moderating right there. lol

How about a real answer now?

You haven't been listening to us at all, have you?

I have, I just love it when you guys give those kind of responses, it is hilarious. I literally laughed out loud irl when I read it. 

It was as if you were like "Hell, you can dream, wish, hope, do whatever you like, no skin off my ***"

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 15 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Farbautisonn]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Oh man, that is typical Woo and Priestly style moderating right there. lol

How about a real answer now?

You haven't been listening to us at all, have you?

I think the problem/issue/feature is we have. 

[PiEman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

PiEman wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

But in essence aren't you suppose to develop the game to please the player? Why should the player buy a game meant to please the developer and not the purchaser. I think the development staff needs to take economics 101.

Furthermore the website advertises.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

- Mass Effect 3 Official site.

I fail to see how color palette swaps on a laser beam accounts for radically different endings. This is false advertising at it's worst.

To be pleased is subjective and not all individual share the same stimuli that trigger "pleasing".

Okay.

But where in the hell did they find the group of people that found an ending riddled with plot holes, detached from the rest of the game, and blatantly unlike everything Bioware had promised in the past a "pleasing stimuli"?

Well I liked it. So I guess that would make me one.

Like I have said in the past I do not treat any game not even ME franchise as a dictionary or thesaurus, a biography or documentary or require everything to be answered. I treat it as a form of entertainment. In that it succedded and hence the enjoyment. I also have stated you will never get 100% closure on everything because the outcomes are infinite over time. You make choice x save it saves y (closure), he goes on and lives happy life or sad one (closure), he had a child and that child went on and lived his life (closure) again and goes on forever. How much is enough is subjective. If you require facts to enjoy yourgames as opposed to emotional response to enjoy a game then so be it but as a form of entertainment it did just fine by me and I have been a long time member of Biowares community and purchaser of their titles like many others so I will ask you leave out any snide comments or silly generalisations just incase you think about doing so. 

I really am sick of you.

How do you justify them lying about the choices mattering at the very end then? Or do you just REALLY like the color green?

[InvincibleHero]

Euphori Sixx wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

Well then who in the world did you develop the game to please?  Yourselves? Jebus?

He meant for one individual person. They try to make a game that millions will enjoy while taking pride in their artistic vision being realized. It is a shame more people do not respect that BW creators try to accomodate people but they still have to do things their own way and that is the right and proper way of it.

[Darth Malignus]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Euphori Sixx wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

Well then who in the world did you develop the game to please?  Yourselves? Jebus?

I don't think he can answer to that. He's only part of the QA. Bugs, lags and glitches reports. I think.

GREAT! I have a bug to report about the ending, Mr. Woo.

[Rockworm503]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

.
No they show that a majority of BSN active user does not like them. Other people doesn't have problem with it as seen in many other site. If by majority you call 9000-15000 vote on a million selling game. Yeah sure whatever you want to call majority. 

Man it is pretty clear that it is a disproportionate amount of people who dislike it to those that like it. If anything the BSN is a great focus group for the larger fan base. I'd bet you a cool $million I believe it that much. I'd go so far to say over 90% fanbase wide did not like the ending(s).

All told, I love BioWare and I have full faith in them to do what is needed to set things right (whatever that means)

Yeah even if we ignore the fact that there are petitions to change the endings.
There are youtube videos.
There's Forbes even calling Bioware out for it.
Not everyone who plays the game comes here but I talk to my friend who disliked the ending you wont see him post on here.
There's a facebook page against the endings.

[Stanley Woo]

Teddie Sage wrote...

The thing I simply don't like, is how some questions are easily dodged by the game producers or paraphrased and changed to their own advantage. This is a part of general marketing I never liked. Not saying they should do this or should do that, but it frustrates me personally to no end. Clearly, BSN has a hardcore fanbase for every games made by the separate teams of this company... It would be fun sometimes to feel the trust and love from the developers instead of being treated like strangers. Oh, but don't mind me... I'm just being paranoid, like usual.

The community treats us like trusted buddies when things are rosy and there are no problems. When issues come up, they want OFFICIAL DEFINITE CORPORATE ANSWERS. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because we act the same way. When it's just us chatting about this or that, you'll find people like me or John or Priestly to be fun and informative. When issues come up, as devSin implied, the same kinds of official responses are presented.

As long as you are aware of why this happens, and can accept some measure of disappointment when soliciting us for OFFICIAL ANSWERS, everything should be fine.

[London]

I'd hope you would develop a game that pleases your fans. I haven't touched any mass effect game since the ending. The ending was a huge disservice to the fans. I think some Forbes articles should be read. I've never seen an investor like hearing that a company isn't there to please their clients who pays the bills.

[calabain]

Hey! Glad that there is a measure of developer/fan interaction. Awesome game by the way, although I'm in the camp that doesn't agree with the endings. I doubt you can respond to this in anything but vague answers but what is up with a lack of epilogue at the end? I found it extremely disappointing that we don't even know if everyone got off Earth, let alone the future of the galaxy.

It'd be pretty low (in my humble opinion) if you kept it vague just to keep interest up for a future game or some such, so I'm assuming that there was an intention that was lost in translation.

Also, I'd like to chip in and also say that, at least in my personal experience, people aren't angry for the reasons a lot of gaming journalists are saying. I didn't want a super happy ending or anything, I just wanted something I'd find to be consistent and faithful to the overarching tone of the series.

[Stanley Woo]

Ozai75 wrote...

Stanley, are you allowed to discuss what you think of our opinions and our distaste for the ending of an otherwise brilliant game, and if you are what would it be?

I've already made my opinions known in this thread. Some folks have even quoted it. Search the dev replies and you'll likely find it.

Oh, and slightly off topic..since you use End of Line does that make you Sark and Bioware MCP? Cause you know.. Tron is awesome

It is indeed.

[dragonage200200]

wj_1985 wrote...

dragonage200200 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

And let's wrap up our discussion of statistics and get back on topic now, please. Thank you.

Okidoki.

Ontopic. When can we expect a formal response to the issues at hand?

By my guesstamation I would say at the very earliest this weekend, to gauge the reaction to the game in Asia. But it will most likely be much later.

I live in Asia... I finished the game last week, I got the game through Taiwan's Origin service (meaning I did not get some friend in America to get the game for me)

Still BW will use it has a excuse to hold off on a statement most likely, saying that not all Asains will have it yet.(which is partly tue)