1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Faraborne]

Mr. Woo, I used to think you were a jacka**, but now (well maybe you still are--I don't really know you afterall) but you are such a lovable guy right now. And you get major kudos points (like 10,000) for taking all these questions and generally being the guy that everyone needs to hear right now. Keep it up you Canadian ninja!

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

bleachorange wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

yes 40,000 people is a small sample size - please

the sample size itself is not small - it's just not necessarily indicative of the overall response to the game, including everyone who's not on BSN and those who are but who haven't voted on this poll. WHat you're saying is 90% of the people who bought tickets to a movie at one theater in one city who chose to answer a questionaire afterwards feel this way. He's entirely right in what he's trying to say, you just missed his overall point. I took a statistics class in college, I KNOW what i'm talking about. Your credentials?

Basically in simple terms, the poll is extremly biased.

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 15 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[John Epler]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Folks, a reminder that this really isn't the thread (or forum) for spoilers.

Fixed that for ya bud. 

When I respond in a forum context, I tend to respond in a fashion similar to how I speak. Which means that, while I try to respect them, the rules of grammar are not strictly observed.

Spelling, on the other hand - well, there are some things up with which I will not put.

[cotheer]

Wow, not a single EoL here.
I am displeased. O____O

[Computim]

The Big Palooka wrote...

Chiming in just to say, even though I think we all know that this isn't exactly a conversation that's going to settle everybody's mind before bedtime, I really appreciate you Bioware folks taking the time to interact with us. I know The Fans can be a pretty horrible looming entity sometimes, but, you know, pare us down to a manageable group and we're very nearly coherent human beings.

And we really love Mass Effect 3, by the way. We know a lot of people put a lot of themselves into it. Really wish there was some easy way to explain how much I love this series even while being as bummed as I am, but I'll have to settle for saying that I love this series and that is why I'm here in the first place. My standards for Mass Effect are so much higher than any other game I've played.

I just - I can't let this one go. Not when it's a series with the bar set this high. So you know. Disappointed because I love this game the most. Love this game the most even though I'm disappointed. They're not mutually exclusive.

Anyway, thanks again for listening, and for all your hard work.

Agreed.. once again you guys have done a great job of bringing me down from wanting to biotic field my console...
Sorry if I come across harsh, I'm just frustrated that I loved the game so much only to twitch in anger at the end haha.

[RocketManSR2]

Watch the spoilers. That will get this topic locked in a hurry.

[NewUszi]

Lord Costantino wrote...

NewUszi wrote...

Do people really feel entitled to BW employees coming onto the forums and interacting with them? Are they aware there are plenty of developers who flat out refuse to engage their player base at all?

http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html

When you are part of a Supply and demand economy then yes they are. If people are unhappy with the purchase they are allowed to to go directly to the producer to try to get it changed. With the amount of people saying that the endings are bad are not wrong. If you are happy with the end, good for you but the majority don't like them for a multitude of reasons.

First, I think the ending is bad.  I am not happy with it.  Liking or not liking the ending has  nothing to do with being entitled to interactions with the developers.  Espousing a minority or majority opinion on something has nothing to do with being entitled to interactions with the developers.

I simply acknowledge that my feedback not necessarily useful to Bioware, and that Bioware is not required by some moral imperative to consider my feedback.

Bioware has a basic need to check feedback, a need which is driven by self preservation.  Hence lurking mods and employees who filter the wheat from the chaff on these forums and elsewhere.  I think Bioware actually does more than is required for their self-preservation because they're decent folk, which is why they occassionally deign to come to the forums and talk with us.  And I'm always excited when they do because they do not need to.

That was my point.

Second:

If people are unhappy with the purchase they are allowed to to go directly to the producer to try to get it changed

Agree.  You the consumer are entitled to:
1.  Contact the developer.
2.  Express your views.

And the developer is entitled to:
1.  Consider the feedack, for whatever reason.
2.  Ignore the feedback, for whatever reason.

And the developer willl do one or the other generally based on whats most profitable to them.

Regardless, the player base is not entitled to:
1.  Changes made based on views expressed to the developer.
2.  A garauntee that player feedback is heard.
3.  A garauntee that player feedback is considered.
4.  Direct two way exchanges with the developer.

A business's need to make money does not create entitlements for customers.

Modifié par NewUszi, 15 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[GammaSniper]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Parmida wrote...
(You're starting to grow on me Woo ...)

As I should be, because I'm a fungi (fun guy)!

(i know, I know. I'm very fired.)

you said fired lol...

As stated earlyer by me guys keep it respectfull you get a lot more accomplished by asking then demanding.

[Shiyamirai]

ME3: The endings that have plot holes that can fit a galaxy-class star-ship though them. It was just disappointing and the ending it felt rushed to me. Like someone just stopped caring about how involved the players were to the characters, or realized how many story lines they had going; and the writers and programers all had a nervous breakdown or something.
But the way this went.. it just don't feel like playing anymore..
Sorry if this isn't the place for it Stan.

[Ozai75]

Stanley, did you just really drop a scooby doo ref on us? Tron and Scoobs? Me thinks you are a child of the 80s

Back on topic.

After the vitriolic disaster of DA2, did you guys expect the same once you started hearing about the negative reviews on the ending and if so are you surprised by the level of civility that has been mostly shown?

Oh if I make no sense it's because I have the flu and am doped up on meds. Bleegh

[jinxter69]

Stan mentioned a fact that all game developers have to keep an eye on and that is that the most vocal 'fans' are usually the ones that have a negative view that MUST be fixed. Those that enjoyed the game will usually NOT post in forums let alone even read forums. Others will also believe that the devs/game companies don't even care what they think and will never post. He also made mention that he is in QA and he wanted the ability to predict the future as he would be very rich...I would like to add to this that as a QA engineer for 11 years, you HAD to have an idea how badly this would make your fanbase react. YOU HAD TO...to work in the industry for that long and to be ignorant to how your audience will react? I call BS...I used to work as a Test Engineer on various games, and the last games company I worked at, had a fantastic license (an RPG) and then they took the license, got rid of nearly everything that was cool about it, then created a Shooter from it. ALL of us (the test group) could NOT understand how the devs could not SEE how badly this was going to bomb. They just kept at it thinking that this game was serioiusly going to challenge Halo3 for dominance of the shooter crowd. We did what we could (smash bugs) but we could not get any of the devs to listen. I am NOT psychic in the least, but due to that fact that I play WAY TOO many games, I DO have a feel for what fans of the genre want... When the game released...it sold OK...and then within months was in the bargain bin.  I am proud of my work on this title, but it did was we (the testers) though it would do...how did we know? Experience in playing a multitude of titles in the genre to have a feel what works and what doesn't. ALL testers can do this...

Having said that, all I can add is this about the ME series...

I enjoyed this series enough to run 1 character through all 3, 4 characters through the first 2 (and currently replaying 1 character through the second one again) and I even created another character for the 1st one, and am considering another 2 characters so I can run them through as well. I LOVE this series...but the last 10 minutes? VERY disappointing...

This series, at least for me had been about a soldier who NEVER gave up, who ALWAY fought the good fight, who ALWAYS fought for what he believed in and who ALWAYS put his friends/family first. This was a soldier that would DIE for what s/he believed in. This was a series full of choices, choices that had consequences both small and LARGE. It was a game that made me think before I picked an answer...made me wonder what would happen if I made another choice (hence the number of characters I am playing through the games...). However, the ending...made me feel as if the choices I made mattered not...and the Shepard of the ending was NOT the Shepard I had spent nearly 300 hours playing...it was some other person...one resigned to Fate...something the Shepard I had played REFUSED to bow to...this ending Shepard gave up. There was NO choice that the Shepard I had played would have chose. It felt like I was choosing the lesser of 3 evils. This was NOT the ending to the games I had spent playing. This ending felt almost rushed...almost tacked on. It nearly took the wind from my sails. Not to mention all of the plot holes that the endings opened up. (The ending I chose, could NOT have happened because one of the characters that exited the Normandy had been with me on Earth...how could THAT have happened?) <---and that is just one plot hole out of many...

I honestly hope that the braintrust of Bioware do rethink their ending...you are currently having a Mass Effect book get rewritten due to plot holes and fan outrage...maybe, you may revisit your endings and make sure to keep Shepard in character. The soldier that rails against the universe, the soldier that NEVER gives up...the SOLDIER that SNATCHES VICTORY FROM THE JAWS OF DEFEAT.

Modifié par jinxter69, 15 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[Aesieru]

NewUszi wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

NewUszi wrote...

Do people really feel entitled to BW employees coming onto the forums and interacting with them? Are they aware there are plenty of developers who flat out refuse to engage their player base at all?

http://jeff-vogel.bl...ould-never.html

When you are part of a Supply and demand economy then yes they are. If people are unhappy with the purchase they are allowed to to go directly to the producer to try to get it changed. With the amount of people saying that the endings are bad are not wrong. If you are happy with the end, good for you but the majority don't like them for a multitude of reasons.

First, I think the ending is bad.  I am not happy with it.  Liking or not liking the ending has  nothing to do with being entitled to interactions with the developers.  Espousing a minority or majority opinion on something has nothing to do with being entitled to interactions with the developers.

I simply acknowledge that my feedback not necessarily useful to Bioware, and that Bioware is not required by some moral imperative to consider my feedback.

Bioware has a basic need to check feedback, a need which is driven by self preservation.  Hence lurking mods and employees who filter the wheat from the chaff on these forums and elsewhere.  I think Bioware actually does more than is required for their self-preservation because they're decent folk, which is why they occassionally deign to come to the forums and talk with us.  And I'm always excited when they do because they do not need to.

That was my point.

Second:

If people are unhappy with the purchase they are allowed to to go directly to the producer to try to get it changed

Agree.  You the consumer are entitled to:
1.  Contact the developer.
2.  Express your views.

And the developer is entitled to:
1.  Consider the feedack, for whatever reason.
2.  Ignore the feedback, for whatever reason.

And the developer willl do one or the other generally based on whats most profitable to them.

Regardless, the player base is not entitled to:
1.  Changes made based on views expressed to the developer.
2.  A garauntee that player feedback is heard.
3.  A garauntee that player feedback is considered.
4.  Direct two way exchanges with the developer.

A business's need to make money does not create entitlements for customers.

Times are a changing though.

[WarBaby2]

Shiyamirai wrote...

ME3: The endings that have plot holes that can fit a galaxy-class star-ship though them. It was just disappointing and the ending it felt rushed to me. Like someone just stopped caring about how involved the players were to the characters, or realized how many story lines they had going; and the writers and programers all had a nervous breakdown or something.
But the way this went.. it just don't feel like playing anymore..
Sorry if this isn't the place for it Stan.

This so much... and the most scarring thing about it is: We KNOW that BioWare can do better, we have seen it time and time again!

[Aprudena Gist]

I dont understand how a single one of those "ends" made it past any amount of play tests with fans. Every single one is the god dam same and they all [really really really really] suck.

i greatly regret buying this stupid [consarned razza frazza] game and i would never have bought it if i knew anything about those ends serves me right for not waiting a week

[No swearing.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 15 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Nathos]

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

[somecthemes]

[Spoilers removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 15 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[Ozai75]

Guys cut out posting spoilers please. Even vague ones

[baronkohinar]

I totally understand why you can't comment on planned responses/action/DLC and don't expect you to suddenly disregard this by any means. I just wanted to say that a lot of questionable information has been flying around recently related to the game, its development, and BW's plan for the future, most of it untrue as likely as not. Even if no changes are coming in the future, that is what it is and we have to respect that. We just hope someone from BioWare will comment on some of the rumors and set the record straight as to what's true and what's not. Obviously neither of you are that person, but it would be nice to have a affirmation this will be coming at some point, regardless of a specific window.

[Ravax]

Stanley Woo wrote...

jimbo32 wrote...

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone at BioWare - whether a writer, producer or QA - , at some point, didn't say "No offense guys, but this ending is completely lame and makes very little sense.".

You can believe what you will. It is, in fact, extremely easy to believe something about a process that can't be explained or justified to you. Especially when the company employing that process is already a target of criticism.

I am really not at liberty to talk about the specifics of what "someone at BioWare" did or didn't do "at some point" during development.

Stan the Man,

I for one, whilst being one of the fans that disagree on the endings, and wish for a better future within the ME series, truly appreciate you coming out here, and proving to us you DO listen.

I know how NDA's work, and I wont bug you with personal criticism, or even divulge miscontempt, because I know that's not your job.

I do however, have ONE question to ask you.

What is YOUR opinion on the endings?

Kindest regards,
Xavier

[Nachtritter76]

The thing I do not understand about the "bad ending lovers" (those who love the endings as they are right now) is the following:

IF BW/EA were to ADD new endings, would it take anything away from those who like the available endings as they are, right now?

Honestly.

The status, currently, is the following:

- Some people are content (a minority, apparently);
- Some people are in need of other things (a lot, apparently, as well)

The present situation is a WIN/LOSE.

If you add new stuff, that does NOT remove content that is already there, or change the current endings, but only ADDS new ones.

- Those who are currently content with the endings will still have them, thus can keep on being satisfied with their experience;
- Those who were in need of additional content get it, and so can be happy as well.

Now. You get a WIN/WIN situation.

I don't see how that can be bad, especially since we are talking about a series that is built on the idea of CHOICES and DETERMINING THE DIRECTION OF THE STORYLINE.

[TenmaTaro]

As much as I dislike the endings, I would lose all respect for BioWare if they changed them. Sometimes you have to stick to your guns and tell everyone else to deal with it.

[Joryn01]

dragonage200200 wrote...

TheBandit554 wrote...

 WHO"S SIKED FOR DA3?

I lol'ed. And its because I am one of the few people on this board who are.

I'm siked for DA3 as well. Yes DA2 may not have lived up to DA:O or fans' expectations but I still found it fun for a couple of playthroughs.

[Lord Costantino]

Ozai75 wrote...

Guys cut out posting spoilers please. Even vague ones

They need to move to a spoiler forum if they wish to read feedback on the game. Especially since the main problem was the ending. With all its plot holes and space magic. Not trying to be rude but this seriously need to be addressed.

[Raizon]

85 dollars...85 DOLLARS....that's a whole day of work, taken away by that ending.

[NewUszi]

Aesieru wrote...

NewUszi wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

SNIP

SNIP

Times are a changing though.

In what sense?