1109 réponses à ce sujet

[darkshadow136]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer our ravening questions.

Schedule? I should have gone home three hours ago!

I give you kudos for haning in there

[Lucas-Shepard]

This is me somewhere in my ME3 playthrough before the ending: :wizard:

This is me after experiencing the ending: <_<

It's nice to see you here, Mr. Woo. Even though you can't, for obvious reasons, tell us anything regarding the ending at this point, it's nice to see some activity at least. It gives a lot of hope to some of us, that we're at least heard and not ignored, because that can be such a frustrating experience.

[Aesieru]

Nachtritter76 wrote...

The thing I do not understand about the "bad ending lovers" (those who love the endings as they are right now) is the following:

IF BW/EA were to ADD new endings, would it take anything away from those who like the available endings as they are, right now?

Honestly.

The status, currently, is the following:

- Some people are content (a minority, apparently);
- Some people are in need of other things (a lot, apparently, as well)

The present situation is a WIN/LOSE.

If you add new stuff, that does NOT remove content that is already there, or change the current endings, but only ADDS new ones.

- Those who are currently content with the endings will still have them, thus can keep on being satisfied with their experience;
- Those who were in need of additional content get it, and so can be happy as well.

Now. You get a WIN/WIN situation.

I don't see how that can be bad, especially since we are talking about a series that is built on the idea of CHOICES and DETERMINING THE DIRECTION OF THE STORYLINE.

Because the problems with the underlying mistakes in the game and lack of anything actually mattering are far too expansive to just throw in a few need endings. For instance, the majority don't even want the currently available ending-giver to exist.

[John Epler]

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

[kbct]

JohnEpler wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

[Spam post removed. User banned.]

if i may ask, for how long he was banned? :scaredface:

By and large, unless you're being incredibly offensive, bans are for 24 hours.

Of course, depending on the nature of an offense, they can range anywhere from 24 hours to permanently. Though the latter case happens quite rarely, and tends to be limited to those who show no desire to participate constructively. Keep it civil, and even if you get a 24 hour ban for a lapse in judgment, you'll probably be allowed back soon after.

Hopefully it's 24 hours. Farbautisonn was probably teasing too much. He normally writes reasoned posts though.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Ozai75 wrote...

Guys cut out posting spoilers please. Even vague ones

There are so many "vague" spoilers on this forum that I have practically put the ending together like a puzzle.  I seriously might as well go watch it on youtube or something.

[jeweledleah]

InvincibleHero wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


empire strikes back was a movie number 5 and people knew that movie number 6 was coming.  and movie numbers 6?  has a happy ending.

its much easier to live with a downer ending when you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel, when you know that the story is on over yet.

Mass Effect 3 is IT for Shepard.  the final instalment.  and that's why people want closure.  also - without going into spoilers to much, regardless of which ending you chose, this sycle is not salvageable.   the galaxy is still screwed. what Shepard DID was potentialy stop another cycle from happening (I'm saying potentialy, becasue in case of one of the endings, in 50k years, who knows what happens...)  to call this ending bittersweet would be very optimistic.  YMMV of course.

lastly.  there a huge difference between a movie.  and interactive experience that developers CLAIM in an interview was co-written with the fans.  (and concidering ammount of fan service in ME3, some of it directly pulled from character support threads, fan art meme's etc.  yeah.  it really was).  when developers open themselves up to fan feedback in such a manner, and actualy encorporate it.  you cannot just  scream "artistic integrity!  its their story!"  becasue it no longer is.

I'm glad they seem to be still listening to feedback.  all feedback, not just  "I'm going to defend bioware, becasue I like playing devi's advocate" feedback.  I except it will take a fair bit of time to formulate a responce.  I was impatient back when bioware was staying completely silent.  but now that they are showing that they just haven't formulated final response yet?  I'm willing to wait for it.

P.S>  could someone please explain to me what exactly makes downer ending artisticaly better then a happy one?  and why is it a desire for an option of a happy ending somehow seen as a bad thing?  immature thing?  I don't know about you all, but i'm old enough to have delat with plenty of downer endings in real life, I'm past the age when I wanted to seek out fictional drama becasue my real life didn't have enough strife in it.

Thanks for being civil.  A few points it was taboo then for movies to have the bad guys win. No one knew what movie 6 would bring it could have ended with the Empire finsihing off the Rebellion which almost did happen.

How do you know nothing can be done for the galaxy after ME3? BW writes it not you or I. They know the exact state of things and how to start their next game if there is to be one at this point given the negativity they are subjected to and people saying I will never buy another ME/BW?EA game if they do not cave to my desires now.

There is no difference. Meida creator has all rights associated with it. we are just the consumers. It is nice that BW is open and does incorporate fan feedback when many others do not. There is such a thing as becoming too demanding and stepping all over their creation. What you want collides with what they have made and wanted for ME. So you deserve to have your want satisfied over theirs?

No devils' advocate. I truly beleieve in an artist's right of interpretation. Don't like it fine create your own art. Your job is to consume it or not and offer feedback if you wish. It is not a relationship where you get to make demands like you could tell a contractor to paint your bathroom a ceratin color. Imagine your buying a Picasso and making changes that suits you. Do you think it will be owrth as much now? No way. His vision and his piece. ME 3 is the colaboration of many hardworking people that had a vision too. 

I never said it was better or more artistic just one Bw has every right to make and it is up to us to accept it as such. I would not have minded if they included it in the original menu of options but they did not. To change now would be to cave to fan demand and ruin their credibility as a game media creator. if they are willing to change the ending then all is fair game people just have to kick up enough noise. So their product is changeable and not something they believe in and will stand by.

The funny thing is people saying they sold out making COD clone want them to sell-out and make happy ending for them. It is a wonder they cannot see the realtionship between the two. It would be a bigger cop-out to abandon their art and pander to vocal fans than try to broaden the appeal of their games which is understandable.

I feel like I have to reiterate a point I've made before.  when I'm buying a piece of art that was created first and marketed later - yeah, I'm buying it becasue it appealed to me as is and obviously I woudln't be changing it.  but Mass Effect 3 is closer to comissioned art.  and while the customer themselves don't make changes - they DO provide feedback to the artist, that artist then encorporates into their work.  Mass Effect is a labor of love.  between developers AND the fans.  its not art for the sake of art.  so the rules of art for the sake of art (a concept btw, that is very VERY young, Michelangelo and Da Vinci and Goya and David etc etc - they all worked on comission, on order, creating what customers - patrons payed them to create) do not apply to ME.  not since developr's continued admission of listening and encorporating feedback, not since they create this art for commercial purposes, to make profit. 

so what makes this different from asking for Tali and Garrus be made romances, asking for more squadmate interaction, asking for changes to planet scanning, or combat, asking for inclusion of s/s romances, asking for graphical and animation updates?  or how about pointing out inconsistencies with lore, prior stories, etc - in a tie in book, to the point where it gets recalled to be corrected and rewritten?

interesting example of a book, incidentaly.  "Metro 2033"  the author actualy completely rewrote the ending and changed many parts of the story entirely due to fan feedback.  and it made for a better story (IMO), or at least one more popular with the fans.  it didn't ruin his credibility as a writer, on the contrary.  it indeared him to his fanbase, built up good will and made them more likely to buy his books in a future.  and that's the whole point of commercial art - which is what video games are.  commercial art.  to please the consumer.  ME is already changeabale.  you can see througout the entire trology how it was affected and shaped by fan feedback.  this is NOTHING new.  in fact - its part of the reason for bioware's fanbase - the fact that they listen and encorporate.

and I'm not seeing exactly how optional happy ending = COD clone sellout.  not that the lack of happier option is the biggest problem with ME3's ending, not even close.  lack of coherency, lore contradictions, direct contradiction to pre release developer statements (wildly divergent and different endings that will be directly and visibly affected by choices from all 3 games), plot holes, etc.

[Palidane]

@Stanley Woo

Can I ask you something? Not in an accusatory way, just generally. A lot of news sites and reporters are calling Retake Mass Effect "entitled" for wanting a better ending, demanding changes to a game we paid for but did not produce. I'd say ten years ago, this would be perfectly valid. The only changes to a game were in $50 dollar expansion packs, which was all new content, not so much fixes for old stuff.

But times have changed. In the modern era of gaming, DLC is the latest trend. Like it or not, 2-10 dollar purchases are becoming a lot more common, for everything from weapons to cosmetics to companion characters. Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game? If developers are willing to work on small scale DLC, then is it fair for us to ask for changes to a game, instead of a new weapon pack, for instance?

[John Epler]

If your post has spoilers, it will be edited. So if you have a point you'd like to make, please do so without spoilers or else it's going to be lost.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Pipe 42]

I'm afraid I'll have to add my tuppence to the whole numbers of the poll thing. It's absolutely dead on that this is a biased poll of people who have voted. No one would argue that. What the problem seems to be is that's it's being disregarded as it's not a valid sample.

I've lost track of the number of times I've been told to buy brand x shampoo because 87% of 123 people polled thought it made their hair shiner! These numbers are also pretty odd, everyone in the world washes their hair right? That doesn't make the sample unrepresentative because we all have some stake in this claim, much the same as the forum poll doesn't either.

Moving swiftly on from there though, I would like to thanks the Bioware staff for braving the forums at this time when the feedback is liable to be at it's most vitriolic.

On the other hand though, I do believe we have a valid complaint, and I was just about to post it all here when I realised this is a spoiler free forum... Yikes, nearly.

Thanks again though, and here's hoping that we get some answers soon, or at least be told when these answers are forthcoming.

*edit for speeling

Modifié par Pipe 42, 15 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[PiEman]

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

I wish you luck with avoiding spoliers in the general discussion forum my friend, it's rampant with them.

[Aesieru]

Palidane wrote...

@Stanley Woo

Can I ask you something? Not in an accusatory way, just generally. A lot of news sites and reporters are calling Retake Mass Effect "entitled" for wanting a better ending, demanding changes to a game we paid for but did not produce. I'd say ten years ago, this would be perfectly valid. The only changes to a game were in $50 dollar expansion packs, which was all new content, not so much fixes for old stuff.

But times have changed. In the modern era of gaming, DLC is the latest trend. Like it or not, 2-10 dollar purchases are becoming a lot more common, for everything from weapons to cosmetics to companion characters. Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game? If developers are willing to work on small scale DLC, then is it fair for us to ask for changes to a game, instead of a new weapon pack, for instance?

I don't think it's really right to give them the decision of whether or not it's "fair" for them to be required to fix that which was broken, nor for a company to tell you what you can and can't or should and shouldn't do if you're not working for them.

[kbct]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3.

That's actually very funny to me. Have you heard anything on the internet about, umm, uhh, the ending?

Seriously, enjoy it.

[NewUszi]

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

Some users (like me) have been trying to verify their ME3 purchase since the weekend and are on their 3rd EA help tickets.... And we appreciate that you guys interact with us in a place where all of the fans can post.

[Foulpancake]

So i'm curious, around the water cooler or wherever you guys hang out...who won the bet?

[KingDan97]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Parmida wrote...
(You're starting to grow on me Woo ...)

As I should be, because I'm a fungi (fun guy)!

(i know, I know. I'm very fired.)

Yes, and rehired as the new director of puns position I just made up now, it comes with twice the pay(half is unfortunately in funny money, so it's a pretty lateral move unless you can find a bulk buyer on eBay) and a direct line to a man who sounds a lot like Ronald McDonald from the 90's VHS tapes they used to sell. You also keep all your current duties, your current position(officially) and the funny money doesn't actually exist... We're also still looking for the guy who sounds like Ronald McDonald. As soon as we find him though, he'll be at your beck and call for all over the phone amusement purposes.

Anyway, I'm very happy to hear that you are at least acknowledging it, even if not outright stating it(for reasons that you don't need to explain again) and that hopefully the fact that someone is acknowledging the issues means that there will be a response eventually, whatever that may be.

[Stanley Woo]

Palidane wrote...

Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game?

I always say, in both my personal life as well as my professional life: you are always free to ask for something, as long as you can accept that the answer may be "no." The second you stop being able to accept any other answers but the one you want, you're no longer asking. You're demanding, and people deal with demands far differently than they deal with requests.

If developers are willing to work on small scale DLC, then is it fair for us to ask for changes to a game, instead of a new weapon pack, for instance?

You can always ask, but you may not get a response. Or, if you do, not the response you want. As long as you can accept that, then there's really no harm in asking.

[Computim]

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

What are you doing on these forums then!?  Get to work.  The galaxy needs saving Commander!

[KingDan97]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game?

I always say, in both my personal life as well as my professional life: you are always free to ask for something, as long as you can accept that the answer may be "no." The second you stop being able to accept any other answers but the one you want, you're no longer asking. You're demanding, and people deal with demands far differently than they deal with requests. you don't get to make demands of the Council Shepard.

If developers are willing to work on small scale DLC, then is it fair for us to ask for changes to a game, instead of a new weapon pack, for instance?

You can always ask, but you may not get a response. Or, if you do, not the response you want. As long as you can accept that, then there's really no harm in asking.

Fixed.

[The Smitchens]

G3rman wrote...

They can act like they care, but it doesn't mean they will do anything about it.

Just because BW takes feedback doesn't mean they apply it.

I don't think that's fair to say.  How many things have they changed, included, and removed from the games at the discretion of the fans?  It's not like in the 80s and 90s before the internet when developers had to make decisions on their own.  The reason Bioware has an ME forum is to get a direct link to the fans as to what they want out of a game.  Ultimately that tells them what the bulk of people want and ultimately what group will give them the most money.

Of course they care.  We're their paying customers.  Without us they don't eat.

[durasteel]

JohnEpler wrote...

Folks, a reminder that this really isn't the thread (or forum) for spoilers.

[We said NO SPOILERS, not even vague ones.]

[Edit: Whatever, dude.  My point was that the ending cannot spoil the game's story, because the two are not related in any significant way. That's what we're on about... the game stops, then an unrelated "end" bit is tacked on. It is farsical.]

I do appreciate seeing your and Stan's activity in this thread. Thanks for reaching out.

Modifié par durasteel, 15 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[Stanley Woo]

PiEman wrote...

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

Because the game is still enjoyable. Besides, who's to say that, in the playing of the game, I don't come to really enjoy the ending on my own terms? People still go to see Shakespeare, operas, musicals, and re-watch movies and television shows, and re-read books and re-play games. Why do that if they already know the endings, the character resolutions, the twists, and even all the lines of dialogue?

[Nachtritter76]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I always say, in both my personal life as well as my professional life: you are always free to ask for something, as long as you can accept that the answer may be "no."

I take it you don't have a daughter. 

[NewUszi]

Palidane wrote...

@Stanley Woo

Can I ask you something? Not in an accusatory way, just generally. A lot of news sites and reporters are calling Retake Mass Effect "entitled" for wanting a better ending, demanding changes to a game we paid for but did not produce. I'd say ten years ago, this would be perfectly valid. The only changes to a game were in $50 dollar expansion packs, which was all new content, not so much fixes for old stuff.

But times have changed. In the modern era of gaming, DLC is the latest trend. Like it or not, 2-10 dollar purchases are becoming a lot more common, for everything from weapons to cosmetics to companion characters. Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game? If developers are willing to work on small scale DLC, then is it fair for us to ask for changes to a game, instead of a new weapon pack, for instance?

Here's the disconnect I see.  

You said:
"Would you say that in this age of low priced tidbits, it is fair for us to ask for changes to the game?"

To which I say, yes it is fair.  And I think most reasonable people who use "entitled" to slander the BSN community would agree as well ---- not all, mind you.

The problem is that your language is not the language that is always used.  There are many people who seem to think that there is a moral imperative that Bioware implement the changes made by the player base in the form of demands.

Those people are have a mistaken sense of being "entitled" to changes.

Here's an entitlement test for everyone: 

Are the following two statements mutually exclusive?
1.  Most players would like the ending changed.  
2.  Bioware does not need to change the ending.

Modifié par NewUszi, 15 mars 2012 - 04:21 .