1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Kanner]

@Stanley - but do you have to BUY the game, or do you get a free copy from work?

Giving something a fair shot isn't so easy when the asking price is over $50. This is not a great analogy. =/

[durasteel]

JohnEpler wrote...

...

So whether or not I know the endings, I'm more concerned about what happens up to that point. And that's why I'll play through ME3, despite having the endings spoiled - I want to know what happens in the leadup.

It is brilliant, absolutely brilliant. You'll run the emotional gamut. There is triumph and tragedy, and your choices will matter... a lot.

Really, if the game were't this incredibly good, it wouldn't matter that the "end" is so incredibly weak.

[SearchXDestroy]

My only complaint about the ending is the feeling that thousands of choices i have made over three games, hundreds of hours and more save and reloads than id care to admit to seem to have zero impact on the endings, the last half hour of gameplay to me feels like the choices were taken out of my hands and worse then that all of my investment in my characters seems worthless.

Somone who has never played the first two games will still end up with the same three choices, i could choose to save or kill anyone in the games and still end up choosing between:

Ending A
Ending B
Ending C

The ending to massefect 2 felt like my choices had a huge impact on the game, and they did, people lived or died thanks to how i chose, yet with 3 im really disapointed not to find what i feel is the same caliber or quality in the ending.

[InvincibleHero]

CatalystJones wrote...

Mr Woo,

   Take this how you will. With ME and ME2 I played at least a full 6 runs of each. The first three runs came one after the other. Those were without doubt the best gaming experiences I have ever had. No other game has ever drawn me in enough to play more than twice.
   As such a huge fan of the series I made sure to get ME3 on release day. The game itself was amazing in nearly every way...until the end. Of the three games this is the only one that I have no desire to replay. The only thing that could change that is if a new ending is coming our way. So I ask you based on my thoughts do I have any reason to keep these 3 games installed?

I know you addressed it to Mr. Woo.

The only impediment to anyone playing the game again is themselves. If you enjoyed 40 hours then do it again and forget about the endings. Really I do things I don't like all the time knowing it needs done to get to what you like doing. Things like dishes won't wash themselves or meals cook themselves then get to play games, watch movies, or read a novel or play sports etc for entertainment. It is like self-punishment. Just play the game again make the choice and walk away to create an endsave if that will mean anything or just stop where you know the ending starts and start again. You'll have more fun than not by a factor of 400 so why wouldn't you? Let the anger and resentment go...

[Lucy Glitter]

My gripe was also with how the ME2 romances were treated, gaize.

Yes, the ending sucked and ME2 in general feels meaningless but so far i've had fun. Sure, Allers should not even be in existence and the space bar action button is horrific and the Zaeed dialogue style is upsetting and the low-res textures being hidden by lighting is disappointing...

But despite all that, I did enjoy it. I know, I know. Me being somewhat positive about ME3? Ridiculous! Still. If it weren't for endings and ME2 characters i'd enjoy the game MUCH more.

[Travie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Travie wrote...

Didn't he mean if you know how BAD the endings are, why bother playing the game at all?

Thats how I read it anyway, and I agree.

If you know all your hard work is going to end up not mattering, or coming to an unsatisfying conclusion then it really is a de-motivating factor when looking at future playthroughs.

Not mattering to who, though. Unsatisfying to who? Just because a jillion people hated the ending doesn't necessarily mean that I will as well, and that's enough to let me enjoy the game and judge it for myself. YMMV, of course, since I'm an optimist and I'm generally willing to give things a fair shot, even if they are critically panned or universally disliked among my peer group.

But i like JAG, NCIS and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. i like Love Hina, Azumanga Daioh, and Full Metal Alchemist. I like canned spiced eel, headcheese, KD, and mock chicken loaf. I like Notorious MSG, Steel Panther, Rammstein and Enya. Why would I pass up the chance to experience it for myself, even if I might end up disliking it?

Fair enough, but it makes me think of Steven King's The Dark Tower series, wherein he takes a few paragraphs right before the last chapter of the last book to urge the reader NOT to read the ending... and let their last memory of the books be a happy one...

[Tazzmission]

Koobarex wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

PiEman wrote...

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

Because the game is still enjoyable. Besides, who's to say that, in the playing of the game, I don't come to really enjoy the ending on my own terms? People still go to see Shakespeare, operas, musicals, and re-watch movies and television shows, and re-read books and re-play games. Why do that if they already know the endings, the character resolutions, the twists, and even all the lines of dialogue?

But the ending ruins it the replay value for a lot of people. Yes the Journey matters but so does a destination in a game where you choose what you do.

um no it doesnt. im on my 4th play right now

the whole ending fiasco isnt the devs fault its yours because  in your own words you say to you and you alone 10 minutes of a cuscene shot the franchise dead.

now im not saying this to be a douche but i just dont understand how anyone could let 10 minutes affect a full game and im sorry but you guys are becoming worse than the star trek groups regarding whats lore and whatisnt, what a retcon is and what isnt

Well, Mass Effect is actually about much more than your average "I don't even care, I'm just playing" type of game. "Emotionally engaging" became a meme shortly after our two beloved Doctors used it a lot in a few interviews back when we were waiting for ME2, and for a reason. ME made me fall in love with it and embraced me for 2.9 games, but finished the final, crucial 0.1 with telling me she doesn't love me anymore, giving back my engagement ring and telling me that she faked it for all those 2.9 games.

And before any clever comments start to roll in, it did the very same for my girlfriend, who's as baffled with the endings and their quality as I am.

As far as being "as bad as trekkies" - that's not bad. That's good for both the franchise and the company running it. Star Trek is a household name and I'm pretty sure BW would like the title "Mass Effect" to be as well perceived and recognisable as good ol' ST.

They want me to wear those Salarian goggles and Asari headcthulhuthingies as much as ST teams want me to wear my Spock ears and prance around doing Kirk-like smiles...

...or at least I think they do.

Not sure I will continue doing it after that broken engagement, though.

let me ask everyone this....


when has any developer on this franchise said choices will affect the ending of this game?

if you have an actually video statemnt than fine link it but if you cant prove it than i believe its fair to say you thought something different

[Lord Costantino]

Tazzmission wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Ronnocloki wrote...

The problem that many people have with the ending isn't simply the tone it sets but the fact that there are several plot holes in the ending and that there isn't a reflection of the players choice, one of the major aspects of the Mass Effect franchise.

things will always have plotholes and thats something people need to get over and understand

im a huge fan of green lantern and i can rant on and on forever on so many plotholes itll make the me3 endings look small in size.


the thing is i dont chose to sit and analize it all day and go hey geoff johns you owe me an answer since you write the series


despite the plotholes im still a fan and still read the books

same with mass effect i love the trilogy of games even if the 3rd games ending wasnt what i expected but its not gona make me go and say welp im no longer a fan now.

if people think everything is going to be top notch perfect your setting yourselves up for a dissapointment

If you are talking about the movie of the Green Lantern, OFCOARSE its going to have plot holes. Comics and books made into movies always do. The plotholes at the end of ME3 were ridiculous and like I said the endings so called "choice" goes against the principle that Mass Effect was building. Which was Tolerance of other races and synthetics. The ending discreded that completely.

no im talking the comics within the last 3 years

i can argue so many things its scary beyond belief

ps. the gl movie sucked sadly and i even wrote a script after i came home from the midnight release

Ok, but don't you think it's worth a try to get such ridiculous plot holes and invalidation is worth having changed rather then just accepting it? You paid for a product and Mass Effect was flawless until the last 10min. That 10 mins was the only issue.

[John Epler]

Lord Costantino wrote...

But the ending invalidates all of your choices. You could have pick anything and gotten the same thing. BOTH the Journey and Destination matter to people in a game where you make the decisions.

To you.

And that's an entirely fair viewpoint to have! I don't want to sound like I'm saying 'no, that's a bad opinion and you should feel bad for having it'.

But that's not something that really concerns me, as a gamer. I've always cared the most about the other, smaller plot threads, and from what I've heard the game does a good job of tying off those loose ends.

As always, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand that we have different opinions on this.

[Moonshadow_Dark]

JohnEpler wrote...

PiEman wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

Because, to me (and I know someone's going to call me out on this - so let's just avoid that and say that, yes, I recognize this is, to a degree, echoing an earlier blog post) it really is about the journey. I know where I'm going to end up, but it's the getting there that I'm looking forward to. ME1 was the first BioWare game that came out after I started working here (in fact, my first day was the ME1 launch party - good times). I was fortunate enough to get to work on ME2 (was still QA at this point), and even got to dabble in Cinematic Design. When the third game was in development, I'd become something of a permanent fixture on the Dragon Age franchise, and so I'm coming into it as a huge fan of the first game (and a huge fan of the second, although working on it did mean I didn't spend nearly as much time with it as a consumer as I might otherwise have done).

So whether or not I know the endings, I'm more concerned about what happens up to that point. And that's why I'll play through ME3, despite having the endings spoiled - I want to know what happens in the leadup.

Love this post.

[spacefiddle]

JohnEpler wrote...
So whether or not I know the endings, I'm more concerned about what happens up to that point. And that's why I'll play through ME3, despite having the endings spoiled - I want to know what happens in the leadup.

And absolutely you should.  I've been in the Threadnaught over in spoilers-allowed, but wanted to say Thanks for dipping your toes into these muddied waters.  I think one thing we all agree on is the journey, itself, was absolutely fantastic - breathtaking, gut- and heart-wrenching, triumphant, funny as hell, and all the more touching for the time and effort you've put in the previous 2 games, into guiding the galaxy Bioware's created into the shape your personal choices want to.

And it's that last, of course, that makes the ending jarring.  I still think, with some communication from BW on what was going on, or that completeness would come later, we would not have come to this point.  Fans have proven ourselves to be able to accept a LOT when we're told upfront about it.  Yeah, there would have been complaints and some dissatisfaction; but I don't think it would have been anything like what we're seeing now.

As it is, my motivation to make that journey again is gone, and that makes me sad .

[Ozai75]

@Tazz. There are a ton of quotes from the DEVs that explicitly state that your choices do matter, but I don't have them linked. I'm sure someone very soon will post them.

[InvincibleHero]

SearchXDestroy wrote...

My only complaint about the ending is the feeling that thousands of choices i have made over three games, hundreds of hours and more save and reloads than id care to admit to seem to have zero impact on the endings, the last half hour of gameplay to me feels like the choices were taken out of my hands and worse then that all of my investment in my characters seems worthless.

Somone who has never played the first two games will still end up with the same three choices, i could choose to save or kill anyone in the games and still end up choosing between:

Ending A
Ending B
Ending C

The ending to massefect 2 felt like my choices had a huge impact on the game, and they did, people lived or died thanks to how i chose, yet with 3 im really disapointed not to find what i feel is the same caliber or quality in the ending.

They have effects within the game and add to your score to achieve ceratin endings. They do affect things maybe not in ways you wanted but still. A quarterback can have 500 yds passing yet the ending is a 10 yd rush for Td by the halfback did that invalidate what he did on the way to the final play? Nope. Everything accomplished got you there and created the tapestry of the game experience.

[Rockworm503]

Farbautisonn wrote...

I cant wait to see the Korean Reaction... they are religious with their games.

Bah this wasn't made by Bioware they wont even notice it.

[spacefiddle]

JohnEpler wrote...

To you.

Do you believe he's in the minority?

[Stanley Woo]

Kanner wrote...

@Stanley - but do you have to BUY the game, or do you get a free copy from work?

Giving something a fair shot isn't so easy when the asking price is over $50. This is not a great analogy. =/

Did you neglect to read about all the other things I've given a "fair shot" to? You obviously don't know my buying habits and haven't seen my shelves full of movies, TV series, cartoons, sci-fi and fantasy novels, anime, comic books and trade paperbacks, RPGs, board games, miniatures, CDs, and videogames.

Give something a "fair" shot? If anything, I'm understating how I consume media. I paid nearly $300 for a rare, out-of-print Season 1 of Farscape less than 2 years before they released the entire series on DVD. i'd say that's pretty fair.

[jeweledleah]

as far as re-playability. my personal take on it is - the main reason I may replay a game is to see how different actions change the outcome. when I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that no matter which choices I make, the outcomes will be exactly the same every single time? i no longer have any motivation to replay. at least in DA2 - there are 3 very distinct dialogue paths that one can explore. and even though you basically get 2 endings, its still 2 endings that are directly affected by your prior choices, not color variation or the same exact ending that is affected by arbitrary number that can be acquired through copious multiplayer participation.

even with paragon/renegade, so much of the dialogue in ME3 copy pasted..., so much of it is automatic.... not just between 2 moralities, but also between romances vs friendships. it removes the motivation to replay even further.

#1 reason bioware games became "must buy on release" for me, was their replayability. #1 reason they are no longer on that list, is that I no longer trust them to offer me that.

[Travie]

bleachorange wrote...

PiEman wrote...


If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

The God Emperor of Dune has a whole philosophical bent on this if you are interested. I recommend the buy.

Hah! I Love that book 

[Ozai75]

@John it does a good job of doing so yes, but it does that before the climax of the game. And anything more woukd be a spoiler, so I'll hush

[Palidane]

@Stanley Woo

It is very nice to see you guys interacting with the community again. The silence was killing us. Your probably well aware of this, but without a response we tend to chalk it all up to "the man" and we can get all indignant. Even a cursory reply tends to disarm us of the hate train.

Despite all the hate you guys are getting know this: if ME3 was a crappy game, no one would care about the crappy ending. In fact no one would care at all, it would just be a few "Aww, I can't believe I wasted sixty bucks on this!" The Mass Effect series was a milestone in storytelling in video games, universally acclaimed. You touched the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands of gamers. The endings are receiving so much hate because they capped an amazing final game in an amazing trilogy.

A crappy ending is still a crappy ending, but I have faith that you guys will do right by us. Thanks for the 200+ hours of Mass Effect I've enjoyed so far.

Modifié par Palidane, 15 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Tazzmission]

Lord Costantino wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Ronnocloki wrote...

The problem that many people have with the ending isn't simply the tone it sets but the fact that there are several plot holes in the ending and that there isn't a reflection of the players choice, one of the major aspects of the Mass Effect franchise.

things will always have plotholes and thats something people need to get over and understand

im a huge fan of green lantern and i can rant on and on forever on so many plotholes itll make the me3 endings look small in size.


the thing is i dont chose to sit and analize it all day and go hey geoff johns you owe me an answer since you write the series


despite the plotholes im still a fan and still read the books

same with mass effect i love the trilogy of games even if the 3rd games ending wasnt what i expected but its not gona make me go and say welp im no longer a fan now.

if people think everything is going to be top notch perfect your setting yourselves up for a dissapointment

If you are talking about the movie of the Green Lantern, OFCOARSE its going to have plot holes. Comics and books made into movies always do. The plotholes at the end of ME3 were ridiculous and like I said the endings so called "choice" goes against the principle that Mass Effect was building. Which was Tolerance of other races and synthetics. The ending discreded that completely.

no im talking the comics within the last 3 years

i can argue so many things its scary beyond belief

ps. the gl movie sucked sadly and i even wrote a script after i came home from the midnight release

Ok, but don't you think it's worth a try to get such ridiculous plot holes and invalidation is worth having changed rather then just accepting it? You paid for a product and Mass Effect was flawless until the last 10min. That 10 mins was the only issue.

i have a choice and that was not to see it again and move on because i dont allow it to affect my real life


i admit there are charachter sin mass effect i have grown to love but i also learned that the ones you love can in fact be put into a story element where something happens

what i do regarding plotholes i honestly take the time to find the wrongs of the story and correct them

and trust me when i say this because if i worked in hollywood the movie industry would be way diffrent because i hate the current one now since they like to butcher my childhood by remaking every film they can buy out

Modifié par Tazzmission, 15 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[LegendaryBlade]

JohnEpler wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

But the ending invalidates all of your choices. You could have pick anything and gotten the same thing. BOTH the Journey and Destination matter to people in a game where you make the decisions.

To you.

And that's an entirely fair viewpoint to have! I don't want to sound like I'm saying 'no, that's a bad opinion and you should feel bad for having it'.

But that's not something that really concerns me, as a gamer. I've always cared the most about the other, smaller plot threads, and from what I've heard the game does a good job of tying off those loose ends.

As always, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand that we have different opinions on this.

I've azlways had alot of respect for Joh and his opinions, I remember during the DA2 fiasco on the forums he seemed like the most reasonable out of the staff. I hope that, when John does beat the game, we'll get an idea of how he felt about the ending one way or the other.Maybe he'll come out and say "I can now totally see why you guys are upset" or, perhaps "I can't agree with you at all". I hope so, i'd like to see what he has to say post-game.

[Almostfaceman]

Travie wrote...

Fair enough, but it makes me think of Steven King's The Dark Tower series, wherein he takes a few paragraphs right before the last chapter of the last book to urge the reader NOT to read the ending... and let their last memory of the books be a happy one...

And ouch, that ending. Stinker-roo.

[SearchXDestroy]

JohnEpler wrote...
And that's an entirely fair viewpoint to have! I don't want to sound like I'm saying 'no, that's a bad opinion and you should feel bad for having it'.

But that's not something that really concerns me, as a gamer. I've always cared the most about the other, smaller plot threads, and from what I've heard the game does a good job of tying off those loose ends.

As always, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand that we have different opinions on this.

See what it felt like to me was i was taking an amazing journey up a river, a river i could choose so many amazing choices and see so many amazing things, then when i found the way to the end of the river i lost my paddle and realised it wasent water that the boat was in

[John Epler]

spacefiddle wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

To you.

Do you believe he's in the minority?

I believe he shares his opinion with others, and that's all I'm really going to say.

I'm a guest in these forums - I don't work on ME, and I'm certainly not going to comment on anything like that.