1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Tazzmission wrote...

*snip gawd-awful quote pyramid*

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

Tazz, could you please quit it with the quote pyramids? Thanks.

[Lord Costantino]

NewUszi wrote...

Oooh, Ooh, question question:

What is the signficant difference between the ending of ME3 and the ending of the other ME games that people feel like ME3 has screwed the pooch so bad?

Without spoiling what people are complaining about in ME3, keep this in mind:

• ME1 ends with a big choice:  Save the council or sacrfice them and advance humanity.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME1 up to that point.
• ME2 ends with a big choice:  Save the collector base or destroy the base.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME2 up to that point.

I think the "invalidated my choices" argument isn't very strong, personally.  I felt like the game accounted for my choices as I played.  There were situations where a difference of one NPC or Event from an import would cause two of my characters with similar reputation alienments to make opposite decisions, and I felt like given the respective context, those decisions were what was best for the galaxy.  That was a really cool feeling!

The choices you made in ME1 and ME2 had reprecutions and affected the endings. While this one didn't.
The link below might help but it IS *A SPOILER* watch it if you have beaten it.

[Caelorummors]

JohnEpler wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

But the ending invalidates all of your choices. You could have pick anything and gotten the same thing. BOTH the Journey and Destination matter to people in a game where you make the decisions.

To you.

And that's an entirely fair viewpoint to have! I don't want to sound like I'm saying 'no, that's a bad opinion and you should feel bad for having it'.

But that's not something that really concerns me, as a gamer. I've always cared the most about the other, smaller plot threads, and from what I've heard the game does a good job of tying off those loose ends.

As always, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand that we have different opinions on this.

This makes perfect sense. When I saw the end of the game, I didn't complain, I didn't say "My shepard wouldn't do this or that." I saw the decisions as logical and made the tough choice. But the ending is still missing something more than logical inconsistencies. People will die, the norms of trade are destroyed, and we have no idea how it will end. With the end of a trilogy there are no questions answered. Conflicts are resolved that have been building up for years, but that is less about those exact smaller plot threads you care about.

Simply put, resolving the conflict is interesting, drives the story forward, and is critical to 2 of the 5 endings available. (Who makes it through the game seems like a null point in making 16 endings. I won't count those). What does not happen is finding resolution for Love interests. For the characters you have made us love, hate, grow with, and anguish over, there is no resolution. There is no hope on the horizon. I can care less how much my choices impact the galaxy, but how they impact my party members, my friends, and seeing that play out, is vital for me to enjoy this game. I fell in love with bioware in Dragon Age: Origins because I really felt bad betraying Alistar. I respected and sought approval from Shen. I understood Loghain and even though I resented him I gave him a chance to redeem himself, and when the game explained more things would happen in a simple epilogue, I was satisfied.

This game is not like Dragon Age: Origins. This is the finale, there is no chance to see characters again, there is no chance to experience their resolutions. At least there shouldn't be after the ending of the game considering what happens. This is no resolution for me. Not knowing what is going to happen to the galaxy, to the fleets I've gathered, to the people I love, haunts me. And for that I condemn and praise you bioware. You make me feel for a game like no one else. I just cannot believe I am so betrayed. This is like the first relationship where I cared about the relationship more than the other person. Knowing that I love this game, and I want resolution and to be with it, and simply having this game break up with me and not even give a reason, aches my heart. I have to respect you and your decisions. I have to understand I cannot make you do anything. I also have to live with this pain, and this betrayal of my trust in relationships in the future.

[Stanley Woo]

Heading home, should have gone home 5 hours ago. Thanks for the conversation, everyone.

[salling772]

I think bioware did a good job on the endings you are given a choices like all the choices in the game though 1, 2, 3 did you make the right call? as a old soldier i had to make a call right or left and some time their is no right call and you have to live with this call.

[Ozai75]

@newuszi
True, but the story was logical and concise and lead to the point. The fight against sovereign was inevitable and that was a byproduct of that, same with collector base in ME2. Not so much in ME3

[CatalystJones]

At least tell us why the handgun at the end had infinite ammo.

[Zeju]

I'd like to make the notion to the mods, this is like a debate discussion. Two sides of a situation conversing in a civil manner, now while these posts are not rude towards one enough I'd like to ask for patience from John and Woo, because you have to understand, we've been begging for someone to talk to (god this almost sounds like a terrible love drama movie or something) for days, and now we finally have someone to talk to and questions are flooding and everything is tense.

So keep that in mind, I'll not ask any direct questions as all my questions are already being asked, I'll just comment that I am aware that the team is working on the facebug (not media gossip it's actually true. I know this for a fact), I appreaciate this during time where they could be having days off, I also note how many of us have been heartbroken by lack of closure. I want to know what happens to Liara.

Thats all.

[John Epler]

And I do want to thank everyone for remaining civil. It's unfortunate that, sometimes, there are some people on these forums that take things too far and represent us all poorly to the outside world, but I believe (and this thread is bearing out this belief) that, by and large, people are able to stay on the appropriate side of passion versus vitriol.

It's quite appreciated, and it's a lot easier for a developer to interact with you all when the personal attacks and insults are kept to a minimum.

[PrettyD3f]

I think now is the perfect time to bring this problem I have been having as of late up. Where is Jade Empire 2?

[bullz3ye]

I am dissapointed that my well thought out ending of Ewoks appearing on gliders to swarm Harbinger and distract his laser beam didn't come true.

[slimgrin]

Esker02 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Add to it with paid DLC? How do think that will go over?

Some people would complain about BioWare "double-dipping" by selling an ending or what have you, but at the end of the day, we asked for it. We downright fought for it to be made. Just how legitimate would any of those complaints be?

I'm not fighting for it. The trilogy is over. Done.  I'm hoping they move on, preferably to something radically diferent. A pipe dream, I know....

[jeweledleah]

NewUszi wrote...

Oooh, Ooh, question question:

What is the signficant difference between the ending of ME3 and the ending of the other ME games that people feel like ME3 has screwed the pooch so bad?

Without spoiling what people are complaining about in ME3, keep this in mind:

• ME1 ends with a big choice:  Save the council or sacrfice them and advance humanity.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME1 up to that point.
• ME2 ends with a big choice:  Save the collector base or destroy the base.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME2 up to that point.

I think the "invalidated my choices" argument isn't very strong, personally.  I felt like the game accounted for my choices as I played.  There were situations where a difference of one NPC or Event from an import would cause two of my characters with similar reputation alienments to make opposite decisions, and I felt like given the respective context, those decisions were what was best for the galaxy.  That was a really cool feeling!

you do have some point as far as ME1 is concerned, but... ME2, is not just about the final choice.  the entire suicide mission is culmination of your choices through the entire game.  do you upgrade the normandy, or are you too broke?  people die if you don't.  do you deal with everyone's loyalty missions, or rush through?   whom do you pick for which job directly affects how well that particular stretch works out.  and even in ME1... being the very first game?  your choices in ME1 affected ME2 quite a bit. whom do you meet on Horizon?  on Illium?  Tuchanka?  while some of the choices ammounted to e-mails, some choices directly affected your gameplay. 

but ME3 being the last game - you do not have the luxury of waiting for a sequel to see the outcome.  this is it.  FIN.

[Tazzmission]

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs and bragging on how a new game thats been out only for a week already got a price cut

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

Modifié par Tazzmission, 15 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[Praetor Knight]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Heading home, should have gone home 5 hours ago. Thanks for the conversation, everyone.

Good night, and thanks for being with us.

[dcal31]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Heading home, should have gone home 5 hours ago. Thanks for the conversation, everyone.

Thanks for dealing with the torches-and-pitchfork mob for this long. Here's 5 credits, have a beer on me when you get get home.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

CatalystJones wrote...

At least tell us why the handgun at the end had infinite ammo.

Pretty sure there is a video showing why.

[Lord Costantino]

Caelorummors wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

But the ending invalidates all of your choices. You could have pick anything and gotten the same thing. BOTH the Journey and Destination matter to people in a game where you make the decisions.

To you.

And that's an entirely fair viewpoint to have! I don't want to sound like I'm saying 'no, that's a bad opinion and you should feel bad for having it'.

But that's not something that really concerns me, as a gamer. I've always cared the most about the other, smaller plot threads, and from what I've heard the game does a good job of tying off those loose ends.

As always, though, your mileage may vary, and I understand that we have different opinions on this.

This makes perfect sense. When I saw the end of the game, I didn't complain, I didn't say "My shepard wouldn't do this or that." I saw the decisions as logical and made the tough choice. But the ending is still missing something more than logical inconsistencies. People will die, the norms of trade are destroyed, and we have no idea how it will end. With the end of a trilogy there are no questions answered. Conflicts are resolved that have been building up for years, but that is less about those exact smaller plot threads you care about.

Simply put, resolving the conflict is interesting, drives the story forward, and is critical to 2 of the 5 endings available. (Who makes it through the game seems like a null point in making 16 endings. I won't count those). What does not happen is finding resolution for Love interests. For the characters you have made us love, hate, grow with, and anguish over, there is no resolution. There is no hope on the horizon. I can care less how much my choices impact the galaxy, but how they impact my party members, my friends, and seeing that play out, is vital for me to enjoy this game. I fell in love with bioware in Dragon Age: Origins because I really felt bad betraying Alistar. I respected and sought approval from Shen. I understood Loghain and even though I resented him I gave him a chance to redeem himself, and when the game explained more things would happen in a simple epilogue, I was satisfied.

This game is not like Dragon Age: Origins. This is the finale, there is no chance to see characters again, there is no chance to experience their resolutions. At least there shouldn't be after the ending of the game considering what happens. This is no resolution for me. Not knowing what is going to happen to the galaxy, to the fleets I've gathered, to the people I love, haunts me. And for that I condemn and praise you bioware. You make me feel for a game like no one else. I just cannot believe I am so betrayed. This is like the first relationship where I cared about the relationship more than the other person. Knowing that I love this game, and I want resolution and to be with it, and simply having this game break up with me and not even give a reason, aches my heart. I have to respect you and your decisions. I have to understand I cannot make you do anything. I also have to live with this pain, and this betrayal of my trust in relationships in the future.

In a game where choices matter should allow multiple endings and showing that what you did mattered. The ending leaves nothing but question and plot holes. Their needs to be something that shows what you did matter thats all thats needed. It disregards Mass Effects on principle in the last 5 mins about Tolerance and working together between Organics and Synthetics. Yes the ending they have now should be ONE of the ndings out of the 16 they promised. Thats not what we got we got 16 of the same endings that were 95% the same with holes all in them. 

[KombatWombat]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

While I do not deny that you can love Enya, I do know that I'd believe you could tell us if you hated ME3, whether you did or not.

Excuse people for having reservations. You are, after all, working for the very studio that made the game. There may be a bias, or there may not be.

Of course I have a bias. Each and every person who plays games has a bias, whether it's a preferred style of play or a certain genre or certain kinds of characters, or the speed of a game, or the difficulty, etc. I happen to know where all my biases are and can articulate most of them. This is partly why I am able to evaluate media irrespective of its critical reception or popularity.

Then maybe you can understand why so many fans desperately want this game to give them closure and a sense of finality to a story they've invested so much time into? I couldn't care less what big game website reviews of a game are. They do what they're paid to do. If I am invested in a game, as I am with the Mass Effect series, heavily so...to see it stumble at the goal line is almost unforgivable.
I guess what I'm saying is that I hope Bioware can understand the frustration and turn it into something positive. I for one appreciate your coming onto the forums and speaking with fans like myself.

Modifié par KombatWombat, 15 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[John Epler]

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

Again, the majority of people aren't asking for people to be fired, or referring to anyone as a hack. Yes, there's a loud minority that does this, but by and large people are being respectful and civil while bringing up what they see as an issue with the game. 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And there's a world of difference between 'critical' and 'hostile'. Believe me, I've been in the DA2 forums since pre-release, so I've seen both sides of that coin.

[Tazzmission]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Heading home, should have gone home 5 hours ago. Thanks for the conversation, everyone.

be safe stan

[Welsh Inferno]

JohnEpler wrote...

And I do want to thank everyone for remaining civil. It's unfortunate that, sometimes, there are some people on these forums that take things too far and represent us all poorly to the outside world, but I believe (and this thread is bearing out this belief) that, by and large, people are able to stay on the appropriate side of passion versus vitriol.

It's quite appreciated, and it's a lot easier for a developer to interact with you all when the personal attacks and insults are kept to a minimum.

Thank you guys for contributing to the civil discussion. I havn't really participated but its interesting reading.

[InvincibleHero]

NewUszi wrote...

Oooh, Ooh, question question:

What is the signficant difference between the ending of ME3 and the ending of the other ME games that people feel like ME3 has screwed the pooch so bad?

Without spoiling what people are complaining about in ME3, keep this in mind:

• ME1 ends with a big choice:  Save the council or sacrfice them and advance humanity.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME1 up to that point.
  
• ME2 ends with a big choice:  Save the collector base or destroy the base.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME2 up to that point.

I think the "invalidated my choices" argument isn't very strong, personally. 

I agree I have been trying to get people to listen to that reasoning. All the games ended with a choice you had no idea would happen not related to everything that occured before and had slightly different cinematics and the universe ended the same after within game. Interested to see the changes from ME 2 to 3  with ending choice when finances will allow me to pick it up.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 15 mars 2012 - 05:12 .

[Nachtritter76]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

While I do not deny that you can love Enya, I do not (CORRECTING THIS, I SOMEHOW FORGOT TO TYPE  'NOT' THE FIRST TIME AROUND) know that I'd believe you could tell us if you hated ME3, whether you did or not.

Excuse people for having reservations. You are, after all, working for the very studio that made the game. There may be a bias, or there may not be.

Of course I have a bias. Each and every person who plays games has a bias, whether it's a preferred style of play or a certain genre or certain kinds of characters, or the speed of a game, or the difficulty, etc. I happen to know where all my biases are and can articulate most of them. This is partly why I am able to evaluate media irrespective of its critical reception or popularity.

I know that whatever you say will be taken by some as "Stan said it, so Bioware said it!", but let's talk in hypothetical terms - say, in an ideal world where everyone CAN see the difference between AN INDIVIDUAL AND HIS OPINION and the COMPANY THE INDIVIDUAL WORKS FOR. Without it having any weight in the discussion whatsoever (I know, I'm dreaming).

If it were the case, do you think your position would allow you to be honest as to whether or not you felt that the endings, as they are, were rewarding and satisfying?

I'm just wondering if it's only the players who are left wanting, or if there are staff members at BW that feel let down as well.