1109 réponses à ce sujet

[ZaroktheImmortal]

It's hard to imagine how they'd attempt to continue anything from this considering the ending DLC or sequels 'Shepard or no Shepard' still hard to go anywhere. Another problem is that the endings don't tie up any loose ends and just raise more questions then they answer. And of course there's the issue with the whole end of a series being tied down to 'Pick a button' and not much difference being between the endings. For the end of a trilogy that people have put so much time and effort into and transferring save from one to another it could have been handled far better. And to be honest I can't see how anyone thought people would be satisfied with this as a conclusion to the final chapter of the trilogy.

[bleetman]

CatalystJones wrote...

At least tell us why the handgun at the end had infinite ammo.

Probably so we can't exhaust it prior to bumping into That Guy Near The End Who Does The Thing That Makes You Do The Thing To The Other Guy, and be all "heeeey, I had no bullets left damnit".

[Nachtritter76]

CatalystJones wrote...

At least tell us why the handgun at the end had infinite ammo.

XD

[Lord Costantino]

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs and bragging on how a new game thats been out only for a week already got a price cut

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

If you actually follow the Take back Mass Effect cause we do not Bad mouth the devs. We are civil and want what we were promised. The fans were promised a product the would have 16 different endings and that would show that our choices mattered. We did not get that; what we got was 16 endings that were 95% that same with plot holes filled with it. Our choices didn't matter and nothing in the end made sense. The only logical thing most can come up with is SPACE MAGIC happened.

[LethesDeep]

Tazzmission wrote...

LethesDeep wrote...

*Snipping long quotes*

ray could be refering to stuff like who are the real protheans and the whole reaper orgin.

he dosent speak specificly on who lives who dosent live and how the galaxy is in the end

casey's abc argument is what we got and it shouldnt be a no brainer


so yea imo i think people misread what the devs had said


what bugs me about this forum currently is you didnt see this much outrage when we had little choices imported from me1 into me2 regarding things with the council and other stuff

so i guess to you that would make me2 a non replayable game now right?

Actually ME2 is the MOST replayable for me. Why? Because my decisions in the game matter at the end. If I don't do a loyalty mission a character is probably screwed. If I don't upgrade the Normandy some characters are definitely screwed. If I don't give out job assignments correctly based on the character's specialty - well, you get it, they're screwed. And if I screwed over enough of my team, in the end I'm screwed. Seemingly inconsequential things that take place over the whole game end up playing a huge role at the end.

I did like that the stuff I did in ME1 didn't seemed to matter that much beyond getting emails, I realized that the emails were mostly from small side missions where I helped someone as an individual. Most of the decisions from ME1 (saving Council, etc, etc.) were big things and I influenced the galaxy with them, but it's the little personal things that mattered to me the most and that's what imported to ME2.

In ME3 it didn't matter if I unified anyone. As long as I played long enough I would reach the end and succeed in the goal I had been trying to reach since I met Sovereign. Sure the results would be catastrophic but I'd win. There is no risk, but if I play right and do everything correctly I still get screwed and so does everyone else. Then the lore and character inconsistencies and plotholes come up.

[jeweledleah]

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs and bragging on how a new game thats been out only for a week already got a price cut

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

don't atribute actions of the few to everyone asking for better endings.  most of us are not looking for people to be fired, are not calling developers names and piling on the hate and personal insults.  we just would like to have a better resolution to a trilogy we fell in love with.  we would like to hear some definitive answers one way or another.  and maybe make a difference.

and again - ME1 and ME2 were beggining and the middle.  ME3 is the end and specific promices were made as to how differently the story could end.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ozai75 wrote...

@newuszi
True, but the story was logical and concise and lead to the point. The fight against sovereign was inevitable and that was a byproduct of that, same with collector base in ME2. Not so much in ME3

Thats what matters to me the choices having an impact in the game prior to reaching the end, my own personal desire was for the endto just cover the emotional element to finish off. It did that for me, I did not feel the need to know everything that happens to everyone after or need every missing link attached. ME3 did an amazing job of clearing up choices from the past two games and even some amazing choices through the rest of ME3.

The climax for me meaning the ending just needed an emotional farewell send off to my Shepard via the end of a trilogy and it did well in that regard for myself. I have no problems with people who disliked the ending I just wished they showed those who did some respect and acknowledgment instead of snide remarks and bile. I created a thread expressing my love of the ending and a thanks to Bioware for giving me something I greatly enjoyed and I saw attacked from almost the moment I created it out of what I assume was fear my love of something others did not would somehow diminish there "everyone" hates it stance.

I have zero issue with DLC (optional) as solution for those who do not like or had not enjoyed it but I ask they show some respect and reason and do not force patch over what it is I loved.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[Tazzmission]

JohnEpler wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

Again, the majority of people aren't asking for people to be fired, or referring to anyone as a hack. Yes, there's a loud minority that does this, but by and large people are being respectful and civil while bringing up what they see as an issue with the game. 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And there's a world of difference between 'critical' and 'hostile'. Believe me, I've been in the DA2 forums since pre-release, so I've seen both sides of that coin.

 im just sick of the same thing everyday honestly

i just feel the people who constantly keep bringing up the endings expecially in places where it dosent belong will ruin it for other gamers

i have counted maybe 3 threads today in the non spoiler section ( and a few yesterday)of how new gamers loved it and yet the anti ending crowd just swoops right in and takes over

to me as a gamer and at age 27 ( yes im old) they are killing the fun for what is mass effect.


its like ok i get it you hate the ending ok fine go use the stickey thread where it belongs and yet they continue to ruin this franchise by forcing fear into new players

[baronkohinar]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'll say that I loved the ending to Dark Tower and found it immensely satisfying, which I've always understood to be a minority opinion. So, you know.

I similarly was a big fan. However, I felt with DT that was the inevitable end. With ME3 it felt like the end was divorced of our choices and the effect we'd had on the galaxy, not to mention the themes up until that point.

Also, note that Stephen King never promised that the fans that they wouldn't all be forced into the same ending before we bought the book ;-)

Modifié par baronkohinar, 15 mars 2012 - 05:13 .

[Koobarex]

CatalystJones wrote...

Apologies but this advice of yours is quite silly. In addition to games I enjoy reading. One example of a series of books I thouroughly enjoyed is the LOTR trilogy. I have read the LOTR trilogy at least a dozen times. If the ending had been something along the lines of Frodo having 3 choices those being 1) Take over for Sauron and hope the power doesn't corrupt him 2) Fuse all races into some homogonized mess so they would quit fighting (not to mention against their will) or 3) Destroy Sauron and his forces but at the cost of killing all the dwarves. All three endings having the bonus of separating all the lands from each other Frodo Dieing and his fellowship being sent to some far off deserted island who knows where. I would not have reread them even once.

  Yes the journey is important, but A walk no matter how scenic the route is never enjoyable if you know that all that waits at the end is the headsman's block.

Thank you for that, although to be more similar, Sauron should have been unmasked as being just a servant of the REALLY POWERFUL GUY, who was sitting in Minas Tirith all along, but decided not to tell any of the orcs that, so they don't request help with opening the gates and stuff. Of course the REALLY POWERFUL GUY appears on the last page of the book and takes form of a potato that Frodo ate in the third chapter.

Also, Legolas stole an Olyphant and run away from the battle of Minas Tirith, crashing it in a magical land of Eden. For no reason whatsoever, he's just cool like that and whatnot.

Seriously, the more I think about it, the more blatant it is that the endings we've got could not have been planned for this game years or even months in advance, as they violate at least 10 "don't ever do that!" writing rules that each screenwriting book opens with.

Modifié par Koobarex, 15 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[MSWvetCSC68X11B]

The central problem with the ending is how it presents incongruent themes in contrast to the rest of the series. Throughout the series Shepard embodies the resolute soldier never in the face of uncertainty defers to an authority (or beings who state they are "infinitely greater" e.g. Reapers)- Shepard makes a choice. The final sequence does not follow this theme; Shepard in his final act defers to the authority of a being who presents three unfavorable outcomes. After all his trials and decisions throughout the series (that were in contention with simply submitting or defering to "superior beings") Shepard in his final moments submitts to the will of an alien (or automation, apparition- whatever you want to consider the catalyst spirit child). Shepard in action states "sure thing spirit kid I will now defer to you as the superior being, let me bend over all sentient life in the gallaxy and grab our ankles in unison for you; thanks spirit kid."

The ending serves as a utilitarian compromise, but nothing in the series: the heroics, great sacrifce, or relationships are congruent to this theme. Shepard throughout his journey served as a model for what humanity was capable of; he was a heoric symbol, determined, uncompromising, - in this ending he goes out with a whimper.

The central problem is not Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice but for who and how he makes this sacrafice. One of the central themes of Bioware games is that through adversity and trials the people who are their with you become your family. This is the case in combat, you become closer to your squad then your family. It would make sense that Shepard would make this sacrifice for his crew, or the galaxy on his terms; not that of a self appointed "superior being" who tells him A, B, or C. If this were the case he should have submitted to Sovereign in the first game. The game fails to even address the human element here (or alien element) in the ending; nothing on the relationships or any resolution. Your choices before the last five minutes are inconsequential to the outcome. Fans have a right to be disapointed. I personally have never been more disapointed with an ending in all my twenty-four years of gaming.  

This ending effectively ruins the whole series, it represents a prison by which any and all choices make will lead you to submitting to the will of an oppressive being; Hero to servant in five minutes. Maybe Shepard should have been a cook serving chow at the DFAC as oposed to SF.

[darkshadow136]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Heading home, should have gone home 5 hours ago. Thanks for the conversation, everyone.

Sleep well Stan.

[TheRealJayDee]

First of all, kudos to Stanley and John for this refreshing bit of communication!

I can't really comment on the endings, as I haven't even played the game yet. Why haven't I? Because of some utterly unbelievable... 'problem' with the face import. I still can't wrap my mind about the fact this problem exists, and is still present without as much as a hint from Bioware about if and how it's going to be fixed. The fact that we have this 'problem' is bad, but how it is managed is making it even worse. One of the major features of the series (playing YOUR Shepard) is essentialy broken, and the near complete lack of communication (we knew about this over a week before release and got nothing in response) is simply unbearable.

So rather than playing the game I read books and play other games, as well as spending some of my time here on the BSN reading about how it seems impossible to even achieve every one of the heavily criticized endings without using multiplayer. And that is just not very satisfying, considering ME3 was probably my most anticipated game ever. My still unopened N7 edition slowly gathers dust as I wait for answers and solutions...

[Tazzmission]

jeweledleah wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs and bragging on how a new game thats been out only for a week already got a price cut

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

don't atribute actions of the few to everyone asking for better endings.  most of us are not looking for people to be fired, are not calling developers names and piling on the hate and personal insults.  we just would like to have a better resolution to a trilogy we fell in love with.  we would like to hear some definitive answers one way or another.  and maybe make a difference.

and again - ME1 and ME2 were beggining and the middle.  ME3 is the end and specific promices were made as to how differently the story could end.

:sigh: promises change and ive said this again many times. maybe the endings we got was do to the xbox leaked beta because they have stated there going to tweak it

now me personally i never visit 4chan so i dont know how good they are as a source but look at the current dlc rumor thats floating around

it basicly says what i have been saying for awile now

[jinxter69]

This should be required reading for the devs...
http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/

[bleachorange]

JohnEpler wrote...

PiEman wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Nathos wrote...

John and Stanley

How about you spend some time to chat on the area of the forum that spoilers are allowed?

We have coffe and donuts!

I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers, because I've yet to have a chance to play through ME3. And, being up on the DA floor, there are large swathes of content that remain blissfully unspoiled for me, with the exception of the endings and a few bits and pieces here and there.

Thus why I can recognize spoilers a mile away.

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

Because, to me (and I know someone's going to call me out on this - so let's just avoid that and say that, yes, I recognize this is, to a degree, echoing an earlier blog post) it really is about the journey. I know where I'm going to end up, but it's the getting there that I'm looking forward to. ME1 was the first BioWare game that came out after I started working here (in fact, my first day was the ME1 launch party - good times). I was fortunate enough to get to work on ME2 (was still QA at this point), and even got to dabble in Cinematic Design. When the third game was in development, I'd become something of a permanent fixture on the Dragon Age franchise, and so I'm coming into it as a huge fan of the first game (and a huge fan of the second, although working on it did mean I didn't spend nearly as much time with it as a consumer as I might otherwise have done).

So whether or not I know the endings, I'm more concerned about what happens up to that point. And that's why I'll play through ME3, despite having the endings spoiled - I want to know what happens in the leadup.

Spoken like a true God Emperor! Leto II approves.

[Nachtritter76]

JohnEpler wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

and they said choices from me1 will have a major impact in me2 and yet it was limited and wheres the same outrage for that?

people need to quit hanging onto every little tibit because things do change and heck some things may even be impossible to do

People were disappointed back then too. But there were other problems that required more attention. Besides, ME2 wasn't the definitive ending to the series.

ME3 is.

but how many people made petitions on making me1 choices dlc to have for me2?

or how many threads have you seen people say well we are owed rights and what we say matters regarding it?

or how many people made a hey everyone lets be some internet wallstreet bad guys and start fighting the power and chant lets hold the line until our demands our met?

my issue isnt about the ending my issue is how posters have been bad mouthing the devs

id like to see you do a trilogy and have 99% of your fans call you a hack or ask for you to be fired from your job

Again, the majority of people aren't asking for people to be fired, or referring to anyone as a hack. Yes, there's a loud minority that does this, but by and large people are being respectful and civil while bringing up what they see as an issue with the game. 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And there's a world of difference between 'critical' and 'hostile'. Believe me, I've been in the DA2 forums since pre-release, so I've seen both sides of that coin.

For what it's worth, while I was overall disappointed by DA2 (DA:O did set an impressive and almost insurmountable standard TBH), it DID have its moments.

- I didn't like that the Qunari suddenly grew horns, but I liked the interaction with the Arishok;
- I hated the recycled environments, but not the overall presentation on its own, it could just have used more unique spaces;
- I loved Varric (could have used more Varric-point-of-view storytelling though) and Merrill.
- Sandal.

Just please, aim higher for DA3. Maybe DA2 was made to lower our expectations so that you can make DA3 be on the same level of awesome as DA1, I dunno (that would be a cunning tactic). But please, don't give us a forced ending to the series (unless it absolutely, conclusively, totally makes sense in the context).

[Daggerville]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Kanner wrote...

@Stanley - but do you have to BUY the game, or do you get a free copy from work?

Giving something a fair shot isn't so easy when the asking price is over $50. This is not a great analogy. =/

Did you neglect to read about all the other things I've given a "fair shot" to? You obviously don't know my buying habits and haven't seen my shelves full of movies, TV series, cartoons, sci-fi and fantasy novels, anime, comic books and trade paperbacks, RPGs, board games, miniatures, CDs, and videogames.

Give something a "fair" shot? If anything, I'm understating how I consume media. I paid nearly $300 for a rare, out-of-print Season 1 of Farscape less than 2 years before they released the entire series on DVD. i'd say that's pretty fair.

Speaking of Farscape (on an off-topic sense here), the ending of the last Farscape season can be comparable to the endings of Mass Effect 3. You have two characters that you loyally followed through the seasons and they end up being vaporised in the last moment, as some sort of evil cliffhanger / heart stab. Though, the mini-series fixed this.

[bleachorange]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Travie wrote...

Didn't he mean if you know how BAD the endings are, why bother playing the game at all?

Thats how I read it anyway, and I agree.

If you know all your hard work is going to end up not mattering, or coming to an unsatisfying conclusion then it really is a de-motivating factor when looking at future playthroughs.

Not mattering to who, though. Unsatisfying to who? Just because a jillion people hated the ending doesn't necessarily mean that I will as well, and that's enough to let me enjoy the game and judge it for myself. YMMV, of course, since I'm an optimist and I'm generally willing to give things a fair shot, even if they are critically panned or universally disliked among my peer group.

But i like JAG, NCIS and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. i like Love Hina, Azumanga Daioh, and Full Metal Alchemist. I like canned spiced eel, headcheese, KD, and mock chicken loaf. I like Notorious MSG, Steel Panther, Rammstein and Enya. Why would I pass up the chance to experience it for myself, even if I might end up disliking it?

Lol, I like the fact that someone owns to having eclectic tastes. So many deny it. Check out NIghtwish, if you haven't. My fav. band

[Tazzmission]

Daggerville wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Kanner wrote...

@Stanley - but do you have to BUY the game, or do you get a free copy from work?

Giving something a fair shot isn't so easy when the asking price is over $50. This is not a great analogy. =/

Did you neglect to read about all the other things I've given a "fair shot" to? You obviously don't know my buying habits and haven't seen my shelves full of movies, TV series, cartoons, sci-fi and fantasy novels, anime, comic books and trade paperbacks, RPGs, board games, miniatures, CDs, and videogames.

Give something a "fair" shot? If anything, I'm understating how I consume media. I paid nearly $300 for a rare, out-of-print Season 1 of Farscape less than 2 years before they released the entire series on DVD. i'd say that's pretty fair.

Speaking of Farscape (on an off-topic sense here), the ending of the last Farscape season can be comparable to the endings of Mass Effect 3. You have two characters that you loyally followed through the seasons and they end up being vaporised in the last moment, as some sort of evil cliffhanger / heart stab. Though, the mini-series fixed this.

funny you bring that up because i just watched the peace keeper wars literally 3 nights ago so cheers!

i like that as a possiblity for how the ending plays out seeing as they get brought back in the peace keeper wars

Modifié par Tazzmission, 15 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Gel214th]

JohnEpler wrote...

And I do want to thank everyone for remaining civil. It's unfortunate that, sometimes, there are some people on these forums that take things too far and represent us all poorly to the outside world, but I believe (and this thread is bearing out this belief) that, by and large, people are able to stay on the appropriate side of passion versus vitriol.

It's quite appreciated, and it's a lot easier for a developer to interact with you all when the personal attacks and insults are kept to a minimum.

I thought this article was excellent in defining the issues some players have with the game's ending. 
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/ 

I personally thought the ending was ok.

However I can see how it could have been better, (and probably been far more complicated and costly as well) ;-)

I enjoyed this game. Has it been my best RPG...not sure, but it is definitely one of the best, ending included. I think that taken as a whole ME3 moves gaming forward. 

Upon reflecting and after I came down from the little high of the game,though, I did find myself thinking how an extreme intelligence could have come up with such a moronic solution. One wonders how the underlying weakness in this entire premise could not have been raised at some point during the previous 2 games and the books as well. I feel that members of the team should have discussed a rethink about the Reapers and their motivations. 

It isn't the first game or movie that didn't have a solid conclusion. However I was just a tad surprised that spanning so many years over three games the story turned out to be...well...what it was. 

It wasn't bad, but I feel it certainly could have been better. :innocent:

[bleachorange]

Ozai75 wrote...

@stanleywoo because all of those things you mentioned (Shakespeare in particular) have a definable and conclusive ending to them. That is part of the overall narrative. You cannot parse an ending away from a story and say "play this game because this part is really awesome." and ignore an ending without falling action or closure.

Midsummer Night's Dream isn't exactly conclusive. But I agree with you in ME3's particular case.

[Lord Costantino]

The good part starts around 10mins. Listen from there, its very educational.

[jtrook]

darkness reborn wrote...

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

Jestina wrote...

They never listened during the uproar over DA2 development. What makes you think they would actually start listening now?

Because nothing short of a time machine could fix that train wreck.

Or some Space Magic

throw in some duct tape and not even a reaper problem can't be fixed

[infinitekilan]

www.youtube.com/watch

Start around the 10:50 mark