1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Costantino]

infinitekilan wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Start around the 10:50 mark

^this

[Koobarex]

[Spoilers removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 15 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[bleachorange]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Add to it with paid DLC? How do think that will go over?

The vocal minority will cry like they did with from ashses, then they will proceed to buy it when it is released.

If we want a new ending, yes, we will have to buy it if it's not free. That's not to say we won't be wary of future Bioware titles, and vet them ahead of time, to say the least. As always (except at the end of ME3), it's your choice.

[Nachtritter76]

As for people saying this is all about puppies and rainbows:

I loved Stormbringer. One of the best and most awesome ends to a work of fiction ever. (SPOILERS) The hero destroys the universe in order to end the war against CHAOS, and the very weapon that he used all along (the eponymous Stormbringer sword) turns against him and kills Elric as he stands at the end of everything. Then a new universe is born, and the sword is heard laughing through the Cosmos, hinting that the Eternal Conflict between Chaos and Order will be perpuated in this new creation.(/SPOILERS).

But damn, after all the stories, it didn't even feel wrong. There was NO other way this saga could have ended. It was a bold, balls-of-steel, no-holds-barred kick in the face to all of the usual fantasy fiction where the hero saves the day.

It's just that, you know, it was a fitting ending that felt right. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who felt unsatisfied at the end of that book.

[John Epler]

baronkohinar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I'll say that I loved the ending to Dark Tower and found it immensely satisfying, which I've always understood to be a minority opinion. So, you know.

I similarly was a big fan. However, I felt with DT that was the inevitable end. With ME3 it felt like the end was divorced of our choices and the effect we'd had on the galaxy, not to mention the themes up until that point.

Also, note that Stephen King never promised that the fans that they wouldn't all be forced into the same ending before we bought the book ;-)

Honestly, when I first heard about Dark Tower's ending (out of context), it almost made me stop reading (I had it spoiled for me because I was late to the party). But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome, and, once I got through that journey, the ending turned out to work quite well. Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

At the end of the day, I think everyone has the right to share their opinion, as long as they do so respectfully - which everyone here is doing. At the same time, I would ask that we stay away from 'objective truth' posts, because there are a number of people who are enjoying the ending. I'm not saying that people who don't like it are wrong, so let's not start that tangent. What I -am- saying, though, is that people saying 'you liked it? HOW COULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BAD?' aren't really being constructive.

Personally, I'm happy with it, but again - everyone's allowed to have their opinion. But please try and remember that a lot of talented people put their heart and soul into this game, and accusations about how they're 'lazy' or what have you aren't constructive. They made a creative choice you may not be happy with - it's not a reason to denigrate them or their abilities. I'm really happy people are remaining respectful - let's try and keep things that way.

[Koobarex]

Tazzmission wrote...
to me as a gamer and at age 27 ( yes im old) they are killing the fun for what is mass effect.

Hi. I'm 26 and my fun for what is Mass Effect was actually killed by the endings. Where should I vent my opinions about them if not in BioWare forums, the only place I can have even the slightest hope they will be read by the devs and maybe considered next time around, if not now?

[KingDan97]

InvincibleHero wrote...

NewUszi wrote...

Oooh, Ooh, question question:

What is the signficant difference between the ending of ME3 and the ending of the other ME games that people feel like ME3 has screwed the pooch so bad?

Without spoiling what people are complaining about in ME3, keep this in mind:

• ME1 ends with a big choice:  Save the council or sacrfice them and advance humanity.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME1 up to that point.
  
• ME2 ends with a big choice:  Save the collector base or destroy the base.  This choice comes down to a single dialogue option, and you only have two options.  Your options are not predicated on how you played ME2 up to that point.

I think the "invalidated my choices" argument isn't very strong, personally. 

I agree I have been trying to get people to listen to that reasoning. All the games ended with a choice you had no idea would happen not related to everything that occured before and had slightly different cinematics and the universe ended the same after within game. Interested to see the changes from ME 2 to 3  with ending choice when finances will allow me to pick it up.

I think it's more the circumstances surrounding the choice.

In Mass Effect 1 the Council wasn't my endgame, whether they were saved or not dealt with what I was willing to put on the line, and I was willing to take the casualties to save the council, but it was ancillary to destroying Sovereign because no matter what I knew, even on my very first playthrough that he would still go down.

In Mass Effect 2 whether or not I was saving the Collector Base wasn't as important as the final outcome that regardless, the Collectors were destroyed.

For the very same reason that those choices weren't the main thing I took out of the last 2 games was that it was one choice I felt that Mass Effect 3 was broken after that last choice. Because regardless of that choice galactic civilization was in the same state, regardless of the state of the reapers or the build of the galaxy's species the fact is that what I did had the same effect, and there was no way not to do that.(wow, avoiding spoilers is hard work lol)

[comanche warior]

Stanley Woo wrote...

PiEman wrote...

If you know the endings, why bother playing the game at all?

Because the game is still enjoyable. Besides, who's to say that, in the playing of the game, I don't come to really enjoy the ending on my own terms? People still go to see Shakespeare, operas, musicals, and re-watch movies and television shows, and re-read books and re-play games. Why do that if they already know the endings, the character resolutions, the twists, and even all the lines of dialogue?

If the ending is great I'll replay the game until the disk breaks, if the ending is good I'll play it alot, if the ending is not very good then I generally don't play it again. Comparing this game to the other two in the series this is the best one the game play is great. But the ending just didnt have the BioWare feel to it, and Im sure that is what everybody else is thinking. I agree people are being unreasonable about demanding that you guys change the ending. Like Albert Einstein says "Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different answer is the definition of insanity.

Modifié par comanche warior, 15 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[John Epler]

And to clarify, I'm certainly not saying 'TOE THE LINE' if you don't like the endings. Let's keep the comments to the endings specifically, though, rather than the people involved.

[Rockworm503]

Well no matter what I can't keep up with this thread. I TRIED lol.
Overall as much as I hate the ending/s its just 10 minutes of an otherwise wonderful game. Besides the hallucination theory actually makes sense to me (hint hint guys)  Its bad yes but it didn't ruin my enjoyment and I'm going to go continue my 2nd playthrough now.

I will say this. With all the talks of DLC in the mix I will not accept DLC ending unless its free.
No matter what I think about any game company I will not allow such blatant greed. The ending was lazy writing period I wont encourage that kind of business.

But enough complaining. I'm happy to see mods taking the time to talk to us even if it was vague. I hope we can get this all sorted out. I want to support Bioware in the future I don't want them to become the next EA casualty.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 15 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[LCS73]

On the whole, the Mass Effect series was above and beyond one of the most fun and in depth series I have ever played. The writing was great and I felt emotional attachment to the characters. That being said, I don't feel like 3 different endings of five minutes a piece is too much to ask for. I'm not saying all questions had to be answered, but at least give me something to show for every single decision I've made, paragon, renegade, or neither, over the countless hours of gameplay. I could have killed every single person I came across, been an angel reborn, or an incompetent twad. Regardless the ending is the same even if the three "choices" are "different." On the whole yall did an amazing job with Mass Effect 3. The ending(s) just left a lot to be desired. There was no closure in the slightest and it just sucks bad when you become that emotionally invested in something after three seperate games. That is why people are angry and feel cheated.

[newbgrinder]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

I personally think Bioware is still a great company (and from Edmonton i believe as well. I was born there !) and I couldn't have asked for a better game (well I could've but then we would need pixie dust or some from of magic) until the ending. I'm super glad you're not just simply plugging your ears and going "LA LA LA!". And I fully understand that a response and solution to the issues at hand take a good amount of time and thought put into it. However, I think an official response from Bioware across most internet media outlets (BSN forums, Twitter and Facebook etc.) within the next week or so would really help cool down rising tensions with the fanbase. And maybe since that I definitely gave you advice that has no faults at all ;P, maybe give us Talimancers and Tali a home on Rannoch. Just a suggestion..

[happy_diplomat]

I hope if the Bioware team use the feedback to produce an ending to appease the different choices of our custom Shepards, it would promise to be one of the best content additions, and make BIoware the first developer to destroy Bethesda's long standing reign on best endgame DLC ever.

[calabain]

 Honestly, when I first heard about Dark Tower's ending (out of context), it almost made me stop reading (I had it spoiled for me because I was late to the party). But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome, and, once I got through that journey, the ending turned out to work quite well. Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

At the end of the day, I think everyone has the right to share their opinion, as long as they do so respectfully - which everyone here is doing. At the same time, I would ask that we stay away from 'objective truth' posts, because there are a number of people who are enjoying the ending. I'm not saying that people who don't like it are wrong, so let's not start that tangent. What I -am- saying, though, is that people saying 'you liked it? HOW COULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BAD?' aren't really being constructive.

Personally, I'm happy with it, but again - everyone's allowed to have their opinion. But please try and remember that a lot of talented people put their heart and soul into this game, and accusations about how they're 'lazy' or what have you aren't constructive. They made a creative choice you may not be happy with - it's not a reason to denigrate them or their abilities. I'm really happy people are remaining respectful - let's try and keep things that way.

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Modifié par calabain, 15 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[InvincibleHero]

KingDan97 wrote...
I think it's more the circumstances surrounding the choice.

In Mass Effect 1 the Council wasn't my endgame, whether they were saved or not dealt with what I was willing to put on the line, and I was willing to take the casualties to save the council, but it was ancillary to destroying Sovereign because no matter what I knew, even on my very first playthrough that he would still go down.

In Mass Effect 2 whether or not I was saving the Collector Base wasn't as important as the final outcome that regardless, the Collectors were destroyed.

For the very same reason that those choices weren't the main thing I took out of the last 2 games was that it was one choice I felt that Mass Effect 3 was broken after that last choice. Because regardless of that choice galactic civilization was in the same state, regardless of the state of the reapers or the build of the galaxy's species the fact is that what I did had the same effect, and there was no way not to do that.(wow, avoiding spoilers is hard work lol)

ME 3 ends with victory too though the cost is what people are quibbling about. I think the state of the ME universe is left ambiguous for a purpose. BW knows what they did and the actual state of things. People need to have faith that they know what they are doing with their property. Since they intend (I think) to release future ME content for ME3 and beyond they did things with a purpose which they cannot divulge to anyone not BW/EA. They have a plan of that I am certain.

[Tazzmission]

InvincibleHero wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
I think it's more the circumstances surrounding the choice.

In Mass Effect 1 the Council wasn't my endgame, whether they were saved or not dealt with what I was willing to put on the line, and I was willing to take the casualties to save the council, but it was ancillary to destroying Sovereign because no matter what I knew, even on my very first playthrough that he would still go down.

In Mass Effect 2 whether or not I was saving the Collector Base wasn't as important as the final outcome that regardless, the Collectors were destroyed.

For the very same reason that those choices weren't the main thing I took out of the last 2 games was that it was one choice I felt that Mass Effect 3 was broken after that last choice. Because regardless of that choice galactic civilization was in the same state, regardless of the state of the reapers or the build of the galaxy's species the fact is that what I did had the same effect, and there was no way not to do that.(wow, avoiding spoilers is hard work lol)

ME 3 ends with victory too though the cost is what people are quibbling about. I think the state of the ME universe is left ambiguous for a purpose. BW knows what they did and the actual state of things. People need to have faith that they know what they are doing with their property. Since they intend (I think) to release future ME content for ME3 and beyond they did things with a purpose which they cannot divulge to anyone not BW/EA. They have a plan of that I am certain.

i think the spinoff will be with vega as the main charachter

if you talked to him through out the game youll see why i say that

and honestly i thought id hate vega but i actually enjoy him

[baronkohinar]

JohnEpler wrote...

Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

Calla was good but I think my personal favorite was either Drawing of the Three or Wizard and Glass.

In any case, I agree whole-heartly, say what you will about the ending, what's impressive is A. How everyone's come together as a community, in a surprisingly civil discourse, towards a common goal and B. The massive outpouring of support for the franchise/universally overwhelming support for the first 99% of the game. Hopefully someone in an official capacity will find the time to clear up some of the rumors floating around though so we can all either move on or not. But I'm sure that they'll get to it as soon as they can. After all, the game just came out in Japan yesterday.

Thanks

[Rockworm503]

InvincibleHero wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
I think it's more the circumstances surrounding the choice.

In Mass Effect 1 the Council wasn't my endgame, whether they were saved or not dealt with what I was willing to put on the line, and I was willing to take the casualties to save the council, but it was ancillary to destroying Sovereign because no matter what I knew, even on my very first playthrough that he would still go down.

In Mass Effect 2 whether or not I was saving the Collector Base wasn't as important as the final outcome that regardless, the Collectors were destroyed.

For the very same reason that those choices weren't the main thing I took out of the last 2 games was that it was one choice I felt that Mass Effect 3 was broken after that last choice. Because regardless of that choice galactic civilization was in the same state, regardless of the state of the reapers or the build of the galaxy's species the fact is that what I did had the same effect, and there was no way not to do that.(wow, avoiding spoilers is hard work lol)

ME 3 ends with victory too though the cost is what people are quibbling about. I think the state of the ME universe is left ambiguous for a purpose. BW knows what they did and the actual state of things. People need to have faith that they know what they are doing with their property. Since they intend (I think) to release future ME content for ME3 and beyond they did things with a purpose which they cannot divulge to anyone not BW/EA. They have a plan of that I am certain.

I'm not a man of faith so faith gets me nowhere.
I believe in what I see.  And I see bad endings.
I had faith in Bioware with Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR and Dragon Age Origins.
I kept the faith despite DA2.
I can't keep the faith when I keep seeing the downfall.

It makes no difference to me  Its my money until I decide its worth it.  One of the hardest lessons I had to learn was that brand loyalty is a fools game.  They are selling their product to me I don't have to have faith in anything.

[calabain]

baronkohinar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

Calla was good but I think my personal favorite was either Drawing of the Three or Wizard and Glass.

In any case, I agree whole-heartly, say what you will about the ending, what's impressive is A. How everyone's come together as a community, in a surprisingly civil discourse, towards a common goal and B. The massive outpouring of support for the franchise/universally overwhelming support for the first 99% of the game. Hopefully someone in an official capacity will find the time to clear up some of the rumors floating around though so we can all either move on or not. But I'm sure that they'll get to it as soon as they can. After all, the game just came out in Japan yesterday.

Thanks

This, also, I hope happens.  I just want an official word whether or not we'll see post ending DLC so I can move on with my life.  Disappointed, but move on none the less

[Mavaras]

Edited to stay on topic. Was about Dark Tower.

Modifié par Mavaras, 15 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Sentr0]

JohnEpler wrote...

No, I haven't finished the game. I've been fairly busy lately, and I still have to finish ME1/ME2 in
preparation for ME3 (mostly because I'm pretty sure that the only save I have for ME1 is the save where I made the worst possible decisions ever). But I know the ending, inside and out. Partially because, well, if you're moderating these forums it's impossible to miss, and partially because I figured I should know exactly what everyone's talking about.

JohnEpler wrote...

Honestly, when I first heard about Dark Tower's ending (out of context), it almost made me stop reading (I had it spoiled for me because I was late to the party). But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome, and, once I got through that journey, the ending turned out to work quite well. Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

At the end of the day, I think everyone has the right to share their opinion, as long as they do so respectfully - which everyone here is doing. At the same time, I would ask that we stay away from 'objective truth' posts, because there are a number of people who are enjoying the ending. I'm not saying that people who don't like it are wrong, so let's not start that tangent. What I -am- saying, though, is that people saying 'you liked it? HOW COULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BAD?' aren't really being constructive.

Personally, I'm happy with it, but again - everyone's allowed to have their opinion. But please try and remember that a lot of talented people put their heart and soul into this game, and accusations about how they're 'lazy' or what have you aren't constructive. They made a creative choice you may not be happy with - it's not a reason to denigrate them or their abilities. I'm really happy people are remaining respectful - let's try and keep things that way.

How could you be happy with the ending if you havent even started playing the game? O_o And about the "But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome": before i started me3 i knew the ending was bad, but i kept on... oh gawd if i was wrong : |

PS: i am not making a point here, just sharing my "feedback"

Modifié par Sentr0, 15 mars 2012 - 05:40 .

[bleachorange]

Ah, finally caught up to all the posts... 2 hours after I started. When I started reading thi, there were only 11 pages, lol.

[John Epler]

calabain wrote...

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Oh, I do look at it from an outsiders perspective. There's a reason we're, to a degree, lenient on these forums - we understand that there's a lot that happens that isn't public. No one knows the hours that are worked, or the sacrifices that are made - or the reasons why things happen the way they do. And that's not your guys' fault, because why should you know these things? So when someone's passionate but reasonable, well, that's an opinion we can respect, and one we'll look at, even if we don't necessarily change what they want changed.

At the same time, though, it's that same disconnect that needs to be kept in mind when you're interacting with developers. Because just as it can be hard for you to know what we know, it can be difficult for us to look at what's being said with the understanding that you really don't know what goes on at the studio. When you're coming off months and months of little sleep and regarding your family as 'those strangers who happen to share a house with me', it can be frustrating to hop on a forum and see 'BioWare is lazy/what a bunch of hacks!'. Since, in your mind, you -know- exactly what you've done to get that game out. And it's hard to remember that, well, the fans as a whole don't know the same things.

Does that make sense? As long as things are respectful, and everyone at least makes an attempt to understand each other, I think there's some good discussion that can happen on these boards. As soon as it gets personal and nasty, though - that's when things start to spiral. I like to keep it on the constructive side of things.

[Rockworm503]

bleachorange wrote...

Ah, finally caught up to all the posts... 2 hours after I started. When I started reading thi, there were only 11 pages, lol.

LOL I gave up after 3 hours and I think there were less pages when I started.

[KingDan97]

InvincibleHero wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
I think it's more the circumstances surrounding the choice.

In Mass Effect 1 the Council wasn't my endgame, whether they were saved or not dealt with what I was willing to put on the line, and I was willing to take the casualties to save the council, but it was ancillary to destroying Sovereign because no matter what I knew, even on my very first playthrough that he would still go down.

In Mass Effect 2 whether or not I was saving the Collector Base wasn't as important as the final outcome that regardless, the Collectors were destroyed.

For the very same reason that those choices weren't the main thing I took out of the last 2 games was that it was one choice I felt that Mass Effect 3 was broken after that last choice. Because regardless of that choice galactic civilization was in the same state, regardless of the state of the reapers or the build of the galaxy's species the fact is that what I did had the same effect, and there was no way not to do that.(wow, avoiding spoilers is hard work lol)

ME 3 ends with victory too though the cost is what people are quibbling about. I think the state of the ME universe is left ambiguous for a purpose. BW knows what they did and the actual state of things. People need to have faith that they know what they are doing with their property. Since they intend (I think) to release future ME content for ME3 and beyond they did things with a purpose which they cannot divulge to anyone not BW/EA. They have a plan of that I am certain.

Bioware's deliberately stated there will be no post campaign DLC, the exact words I believe were "You'd basically be flying through a wasteland". Indeed.
Edit: Just because I know it will be asked for, a source:
 

Modifié par KingDan97, 15 mars 2012 - 05:52 .