1109 réponses à ce sujet

[HectorTheWellEndowed]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

And that right there my friends points towards ending related download content. I already convinced several friends and family members not to buy this game after telling them they absolutely should right after beating it. But I cannot recommend a incomplete package. Some of them don't have xbox live and wouldn't be able to get the DLC, why waste their money on something that wasn't finished. Seeya Bioware, it was fun. But I hope this crap brings the company to its knee's.

End of Line 

[Nykara]

Syrellaris wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

you might want to look up what minority means - 90% of 42,000 did no tlike the endings and 7% did not like on aspect of the endings - so 3% of 42,00 people liked the endings...

the game sold almost 2 million times. Taking into account that is
perhaps around 1.8 million unique players, the 40K is nothing but a
minority.

Actually it would be more likely the other way around. 2 million copies sold would = more then 2 million unique players. In our household we have 1 xbox and 1 copy of Mass Effect 1 2 and 3 but 2 people who have played it. Just for an example. Other households would have more. 1 PC 1 copy but a few people playing the game. 1 PS3 1 copy but a few people playing the game so you could probably almost double that number to get the number of unique players.

[Tazzmission]

Sentr0 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

No, I haven't finished the game. I've been fairly busy lately, and I still have to finish ME1/ME2 in
preparation for ME3 (mostly because I'm pretty sure that the only save I have for ME1 is the save where I made the worst possible decisions ever). But I know the ending, inside and out. Partially because, well, if you're moderating these forums it's impossible to miss, and partially because I figured I should know exactly what everyone's talking about.

JohnEpler wrote...

Honestly, when I first heard about Dark Tower's ending (out of context), it almost made me stop reading (I had it spoiled for me because I was late to the party). But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome, and, once I got through that journey, the ending turned out to work quite well. Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

At the end of the day, I think everyone has the right to share their opinion, as long as they do so respectfully - which everyone here is doing. At the same time, I would ask that we stay away from 'objective truth' posts, because there are a number of people who are enjoying the ending. I'm not saying that people who don't like it are wrong, so let's not start that tangent. What I -am- saying, though, is that people saying 'you liked it? HOW COULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BAD?' aren't really being constructive.

Personally, I'm happy with it, but again - everyone's allowed to have their opinion. But please try and remember that a lot of talented people put their heart and soul into this game, and accusations about how they're 'lazy' or what have you aren't constructive. They made a creative choice you may not be happy with - it's not a reason to denigrate them or their abilities. I'm really happy people are remaining respectful - let's try and keep things that way.

How could you be happy with the ending if you havent even started playing the game? O_o And about the "But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome": before i started me3 i knew the ending was bad, but i kept on... oh gawd if i was wrong : |

um dude hes a mod and he may have seen multiple spoilers do to people constanly complaining about it

its not like the guy could just avoid it expecially when he has to close it

[WildcardCharlie]

Even though it's been a nice civil discussion I think some of Woo's responses are pretty clear in hinting that they're not going to do ending DLC or anything of the sort...pretty disappointing.

Not to be a drama queen but as others have said, I can't see myself wanting to come back to this series in the future after the bummer that was ME3.

[Nachtritter76]

JohnEpler wrote...

calabain wrote...

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Oh, I do look at it from an outsiders perspective. There's a reason we're, to a degree, lenient on these forums - we understand that there's a lot that happens that isn't public. No one knows the hours that are worked, or the sacrifices that are made - or the reasons why things happen the way they do. And that's not your guys' fault, because why should you know these things? So when someone's passionate but reasonable, well, that's an opinion we can respect, and one we'll look at, even if we don't necessarily change what they want changed.

At the same time, though, it's that same disconnect that needs to be kept in mind when you're interacting with developers. Because just as it can be hard for you to know what we know, it can be difficult for us to look at what's being said with the understanding that you really don't know what goes on at the studio. When you're coming off months and months of little sleep and regarding your family as 'those strangers who happen to share a house with me', it can be frustrating to hop on a forum and see 'BioWare is lazy/what a bunch of hacks!'. Since, in your mind, you -know- exactly what you've done to get that game out. And it's hard to remember that, well, the fans as a whole don't know the same things.

Does that make sense? As long as things are respectful, and everyone at least makes an attempt to understand each other, I think there's some good discussion that can happen on these boards. As soon as it gets personal and nasty, though - that's when things start to spiral. I like to keep it on the constructive side of things.

I work in CS. I know what you mean. I know what goes on behind the scenes at the company. The customer doesn't, and cannot know. At the same time, the client may have valid complaints (which I often find myself in the difficult position of having to judge), and I MUST attempt to keep that in mind and try to see things from his perspective.

I would think, overall, that if the same points keep coming back all the time, and if it comes from long-time return-customers, and not just a very vocal group, there must be SOMETHING there.

But I know, it's hard to be in your shoes these days. And while it seems like a contradiction, I would almost like to be there, honestly.

Modifié par Nachtritter76, 15 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[DoctorEss]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

It sort of does, though, doesn't it?  If you make a product people don't want, people won't buy it, and you won't make money.  In fact, considering it's a product, your entire purpose in the venture of making a game, is to develop it to please people.

[calabain]

JohnEpler wrote...

calabain wrote...

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Oh, I do look at it from an outsiders perspective. There's a reason we're, to a degree, lenient on these forums - we understand that there's a lot that happens that isn't public. No one knows the hours that are worked, or the sacrifices that are made - or the reasons why things happen the way they do. And that's not your guys' fault, because why should you know these things? So when someone's passionate but reasonable, well, that's an opinion we can respect, and one we'll look at, even if we don't necessarily change what they want changed.

At the same time, though, it's that same disconnect that needs to be kept in mind when you're interacting with developers. Because just as it can be hard for you to know what we know, it can be difficult for us to look at what's being said with the understanding that you really don't know what goes on at the studio. When you're coming off months and months of little sleep and regarding your family as 'those strangers who happen to share a house with me', it can be frustrating to hop on a forum and see 'BioWare is lazy/what a bunch of hacks!'. Since, in your mind, you -know- exactly what you've done to get that game out. And it's hard to remember that, well, the fans as a whole don't know the same things.

Does that make sense? As long as things are respectful, and everyone at least makes an attempt to understand each other, I think there's some good discussion that can happen on these boards. As soon as it gets personal and nasty, though - that's when things start to spiral. I like to keep it on the constructive side of things.

Yeah, it totally makes sense.  I have a couple of friends who've worked for some big name companies in and some smaller companies in different capacities and from my experience talking to them the industry sounds hellish to work in.  Seems to be extremely satisfying when everything goes right though (which also seems rare ). 

Kind of off topic, but I gotta say its striking to me out hostile players and developers/publishers can get with each other, to the point where it seems like they're enemies.  On one hand it seems ridiculous, but on the other it makes sense.  That level of interaction people have with their games and how personal their journeys within those games are make gamers hold their games very close to their hearts, more so than even film or literature buffs I'd say.  

People on both sides of the coin need more interaction outside of forums in my opinion, but that's probably impossible at this stage.  Hopefully this kickstarter thing is a step in that direction.

Modifié par calabain, 15 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

One question. I know it won't be answered, just putting it out there.

Sovereign


Was it that hard to go back and play the other two games to maintain continuity or...?

[Tazzmission]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Even though it's been a nice civil discussion I think some of Woo's responses are pretty clear in hinting that they're not going to do ending DLC or anything of the sort...pretty disappointing.

:sigh: they said the same regarding  the prothean as dlc and look how that turned out:whistle:

only reason why they made a official statemnt is because xbox leaked it onto xbox live a week early

in fact it was leaked last june i think by ea if i remember correctly so never say never

[Nachtritter76]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

One question. I know it won't be answered, just putting it out there.

Sovereign


Was it that hard to go back and play the other two games to maintain continuity or...?

I liked the Reapers so much when they were so Lovecraftian in that special way.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

HectorTheWellEndowed wrote...



And that right there my friends points towards ending related download content. I already convinced several friends and family members not to buy this game after telling them they absolutely should right after beating it. But I cannot recommend a incomplete package. Some of them don't have xbox live and wouldn't be able to get the DLC, why waste their money on something that wasn't finished. Seeya Bioware, it was fun. But I hope this crap brings the company to its knee's.

End of Line 

K bye

[Azzclown]

The journey was great! I learned to persevere no matter the odds, but the end of this journey teach us something else, its confusing. Imma just throw out mass effect from my human values because its not the best story to learn from.

[Nykara]

JohnEpler wrote...

baronkohinar wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I'll say that I loved the ending to Dark Tower and found it immensely satisfying, which I've always understood to be a minority opinion. So, you know.

I similarly was a big fan. However, I felt with DT that was the inevitable end. With ME3 it felt like the end was divorced of our choices and the effect we'd had on the galaxy, not to mention the themes up until that point.

Also, note that Stephen King never promised that the fans that they wouldn't all be forced into the same ending before we bought the book ;-)

Honestly, when I first heard about Dark Tower's ending (out of context), it almost made me stop reading (I had it spoiled for me because I was late to the party). But I'm glad I kept on, because the journey was pretty awesome, and, once I got through that journey, the ending turned out to work quite well. Of course, any series with wolves of the Calla in it is aces - but now I'm going off-topic.

At the end of the day, I think everyone has the right to share their opinion, as long as they do so respectfully - which everyone here is doing. At the same time, I would ask that we stay away from 'objective truth' posts, because there are a number of people who are enjoying the ending. I'm not saying that people who don't like it are wrong, so let's not start that tangent. What I -am- saying, though, is that people saying 'you liked it? HOW COULD YOU LIKE IT WHEN IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY BAD?' aren't really being constructive.

Personally, I'm happy with it, but again - everyone's allowed to have their opinion. But please try and remember that a lot of talented people put their heart and soul into this game, and accusations about how they're 'lazy' or what have you aren't constructive. They made a creative choice you may not be happy with - it's not a reason to denigrate them or their abilities. I'm really happy people are remaining respectful - let's try and keep things that way.

I liked the ending - minus a few things with it that could have been done better and given closure. The ending itself and the idea behind it is just fine but it is missing a couple of explanations - such as the Normandy, why that happened and where your crew is really at, how they all are and what they are going to do from there. It's also missing that one last conversation ( com or otherwise ) to Shepards romance interest when he/ she knows exactly what he/she is about to do.

I don't want to see the end changed. I would like to see it polished. Unless it really was designed as a cliffhanger to make room for another Shepard story.

[Sentr0]

Tazzmission wrote...

um dude hes a mod and he may have seen multiple spoilers do to people constanly complaining about it

its not like the guy could just avoid it expecially when he has to close it

reading a spoiler about something and experiencing it on your own are very different things. I mean the ending is so terribad exacly because the journey is so amazing

Modifié par Sentr0, 15 mars 2012 - 05:55 .

[pavi132]

JohnEpler wrote...

calabain wrote...

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Oh, I do look at it from an outsiders perspective. There's a reason we're, to a degree, lenient on these forums - we understand that there's a lot that happens that isn't public. No one knows the hours that are worked, or the sacrifices that are made - or the reasons why things happen the way they do. And that's not your guys' fault, because why should you know these things? So when someone's passionate but reasonable, well, that's an opinion we can respect, and one we'll look at, even if we don't necessarily change what they want changed.

At the same time, though, it's that same disconnect that needs to be kept in mind when you're interacting with developers. Because just as it can be hard for you to know what we know, it can be difficult for us to look at what's being said with the understanding that you really don't know what goes on at the studio. When you're coming off months and months of little sleep and regarding your family as 'those strangers who happen to share a house with me', it can be frustrating to hop on a forum and see 'BioWare is lazy/what a bunch of hacks!'. Since, in your mind, you -know- exactly what you've done to get that game out. And it's hard to remember that, well, the fans as a whole don't know the same things.

Does that make sense? As long as things are respectful, and everyone at least makes an attempt to understand each other, I think there's some good discussion that can happen on these boards. As soon as it gets personal and nasty, though - that's when things start to spiral. I like to keep it on the constructive side of things.

I personally found that the closer to the end of the game I got, the more it seemed like completion of the product was rushed. Like you've stated, I have no idea how much work was actually put in or what went on behind the scenes, but based on my perceptions, it seemed like the completion of the game was being rushed, possibly to meet some kind of deadline. I don't want to go into details about it in this part of the forums for obvious reasons, but that is how I felt. I'm curious what Bioware thinks of the Metacritic and Amazon user reviews, etc. Are they chalking it up to a few people bombing those sites with bad reviews or are they looking at them as legitimate reviews? I'll admit I reviewed the game on both sites with less-than-favorable reviews since this game managed to retroactively ruin my interest in any aspect of the series. No, I do not think that is an overreaction. I was surprised myself at my own reaction, but that is how I felt in the end.

[Rockworm503]

[Spoilers removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 15 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[Lord Costantino]

pavi132 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

calabain wrote...

I know this is hard, but try to see it from an outsiders perspective.  Between little stuff being mishandled (the whole Tali fiasco, for example) to endings whose cinematics are all essentially the same, its easy to see how the lazy stigma could be applied to Bioware (being associated with EA doesn't help, fair or no)

Personally? I think its ridiculous.  Very few people want to make something bad or lazy or rushed, they want to be lauded and remembered.  Honestly, no one here knows what you guys do to make these games, how work life is or anything like that, so those opinions are based on a limited perspective.  

Oh, I do look at it from an outsiders perspective. There's a reason we're, to a degree, lenient on these forums - we understand that there's a lot that happens that isn't public. No one knows the hours that are worked, or the sacrifices that are made - or the reasons why things happen the way they do. And that's not your guys' fault, because why should you know these things? So when someone's passionate but reasonable, well, that's an opinion we can respect, and one we'll look at, even if we don't necessarily change what they want changed.

At the same time, though, it's that same disconnect that needs to be kept in mind when you're interacting with developers. Because just as it can be hard for you to know what we know, it can be difficult for us to look at what's being said with the understanding that you really don't know what goes on at the studio. When you're coming off months and months of little sleep and regarding your family as 'those strangers who happen to share a house with me', it can be frustrating to hop on a forum and see 'BioWare is lazy/what a bunch of hacks!'. Since, in your mind, you -know- exactly what you've done to get that game out. And it's hard to remember that, well, the fans as a whole don't know the same things.

Does that make sense? As long as things are respectful, and everyone at least makes an attempt to understand each other, I think there's some good discussion that can happen on these boards. As soon as it gets personal and nasty, though - that's when things start to spiral. I like to keep it on the constructive side of things.

I personally found that the closer to the end of the game I got, the more it seemed like completion of the product was rushed. Like you've stated, I have no idea how much work was actually put in or what went on behind the scenes, but based on my perceptions, it seemed like the completion of the game was being rushed, possibly to meet some kind of deadline. I don't want to go into details about it in this part of the forums for obvious reasons, but that is how I felt. I'm curious what Bioware thinks of the Metacritic and Amazon user reviews, etc. Are they chalking it up to a few people bombing those sites with bad reviews or are they looking at them as legitimate reviews? I'll admit I reviewed the game on both sites with less-than-favorable reviews since this game managed to retroactively ruin my interest in any aspect of the series. No, I do not think that is an overreaction. I was surprised myself at my own reaction, but that is how I felt in the end.

The game was good...till the last 10min. Then it became nonsense that envolved SPACE MAGIC 

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Based on what Sovereign says and what your party member quips in response, the Reapers were set up for something completely different. Problem is they scraped that storyline and it shows when you recall earlier events.

[Koobarex]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Based on what Sovereign says and what your party member quips in response, the Reapers were set up for something completely different. Problem is they scraped that storyline and it shows when you recall earlier events.

Not sure how much of an impact it all had on the trilogy, but... I miss Drew Karpyshyn.

[Nachtritter76]

[Spoilers removed]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 15 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Koobarex wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Based on what Sovereign says and what your party member quips in response, the Reapers were set up for something completely different. Problem is they scraped that storyline and it shows when you recall earlier events.

Not sure how much of an impact it all had on the trilogy, but... I miss Drew Karpyshyn.

*sniff*
Many of us do.

[Nachtritter76]

Was my comment edited because I spoiled Call of Cthulhu?

j/k

[John Epler]

Once again, please keep this spoiler free. Thanks!

[Rockworm503]

I should just register my game already so I can go post with the spoilers.
Some reason I just don't care enough to.

[Nachtritter76]

JohnEpler wrote...

Once again, please keep this spoiler free. Thanks!

I didn't see it as a spoiler, but I guess it might have been.

Still, Cthulhu will rise when the stars are right.