1109 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback. And a large portion of those dissatisfied with the ME3 endings are cautioning others to keep the criticism constructive, to be respectful to the developers, and to remain civil in their arguments. I appreciate that a great deal, and I thank you and the rest of our community for that.

Perfect. I'm gonna use this quote in the future.

Modifié par kbct, 15 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[cipher86]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

Here's a good way to predict the future:  QA!

1.  Is our ending riddled with plot holes?  If "yes", people are going to hate it, send it back to be tightened up.

Modifié par cipher86, 15 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[The Razman]

Jayce F wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

They mind as well take out the word 'like' and just leave it to what people disliked about it. Then again, it should be obvious what people dislike about it.

Yes.

Because nobody liked anything about the ending. Everybody on the planet hated everything about it.

Even their cats hated it.

Even Steve hated it.

STEEEEEVE!

Seriously.

(And by seriously, I of course mean NOT seriously.)

I've been browsing here on and off all day and of the hundreds or thousand odd posts I've read, I've seen maybe a dozen people (myself included) say anything positive about the ending....

I don't give a damn if I'm the only person in the Western hemisphere who liked it.

People still don't get to say "we can disregard the opinions of everyone who likes the endings".

[Jayce]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

Precisely Stan, you said it yourself, you listen to feedback and use that to make something you hope will be recieved positively.  ME3's ending hasn't been recieved positively. You may wish to debate the strength of the reaction but I think you'll have to admit a significant number of people are not happy about it.


The question everyone wants to know is; what are you guys going to do about it? Stick or twist? 

Modifié par Jayce F, 15 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[darkshadow136]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

It must pretty much suck to be you guys right now and having to deal with this.

Actually, I'm all right with it. The community has been articulate, considerate, and for the most part extremely respectful and smart with how it is providing its feedback. And a large portion of those dissatisfied with the ME3 endings are cautioning others to keep the criticism constructive, to be respectful to the developers, and to remain civil in their arguments. I appreciate that a great deal, and I thank you and the rest of our community for that.

I just hope that I can do my little bit to convince you that, yes, we are listening and dispel at least some of the "BioWare doesn't care fo this reason or that" type comments. i've always said that we may not always be able to say what you want to hear, or even respond all the time, but we are always listening.

Well I thank you for at least coming on hear and saying something. I'm not going to try to pry any information out of you. I feel when you guys plan too you will announce a new sticky topic. But I will say that all the silence is not helping the situation.

[Stanley Woo]

aLucidMind wrote...

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

...Wow.

I'm pretty sure he meant "to please one person" or something to that effect. If they were to make any portion of the game in accordance to what fans want, it would be a bit foolish to develop the game to one fan's preference. I very much doubt this was meant as a backhanded comment towards the vast majority who dislike the ending.

Correct, I do mean "to please one individual." I try to respond to an individual and sometimes it's taken as a general address. I apologize for the confusion.

Oftentimes, people will act like they speak for "the majority" or "a majority" or, as seen in this thread, "90% of the fanbase" or "95% of players." It is occasionally difficult to switch between talking to one person and talking to everyone.

[Elite Midget]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

Actually, I was doomsaying nearly 2 years ago when it was cool. Now everyones trying to copy me. This was "my thing" how could you let it become mainstream?

[Tazzmission]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

and yet the endings would STRONGLY suggest otherwise...I mean given there is a poll here which has 99% of over 40,000 voters saying they did not like the endings...

i like the ending choices mainly because its something new and yes it gives you a choice with all 3

lets be honest here the reason why people are so up in arms is because they didnt get a full on explination of the noramdy crew

if they included that explination how much you want to bet that there would be another bogus excuse to protest against something else?

[Vasarkian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Leaks really don't matter and can't be stopped anyway.

NDA's are serious and you can sue people who breach them

But yes from the community, randomly, see what they think, then task that with the current QA team and see what the results are. Always change the QA so you don't develop bias's.

And if those members they pick from this community do not agree with you on a future product and actually give feedback that is detrimental to your stance on top of the fact they will inevitably leak every single peice of information about the product regardless of NDA's as they alays seem to do these days and if they get sued everyone will cry foul again too then what? Take an example I disliked DA2, maybe you disliked DA2, we might have been happy based on that to think have same goals in every single title which is not the case and would you cry foul then or bias if at that time my stance or yours is different to a following title? I do not think this route would work.

A random sampling from community members that provide good detail and content in the forum or in the community.

It would provide a good basis and be much better than what we're getting now.

[Idiotking]

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

[cipher86]

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Facts?  We have dismissed this claim.

[Jayce]

The Razman wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

They mind as well take out the word 'like' and just leave it to what people disliked about it. Then again, it should be obvious what people dislike about it.

Yes.

Because nobody liked anything about the ending. Everybody on the planet hated everything about it.

Even their cats hated it.

Even Steve hated it.

STEEEEEVE!

Seriously.

(And by seriously, I of course mean NOT seriously.)

I've been browsing here on and off all day and of the hundreds or thousand odd posts I've read, I've seen maybe a dozen people (myself included) say anything positive about the ending....

I don't give a damn if I'm the only person in the Western hemisphere who liked it.

People still don't get to say "we can disregard the opinions of everyone who likes the endings".

Noboby has said that. In fact most people have been pointing out that they feel their dislike of the endings is what is being ignored or at least not aknowledged. Stanley has kindly addressed some of that.

[Tazzmission]

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

reread what he stated.

he stated everyone ( that being devs) do listen to feedback

[Dragoonlordz]

The Razman wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

They mind as well take out the word 'like' and just leave it to what people disliked about it. Then again, it should be obvious what people dislike about it.

Yes.

Because nobody liked anything about the ending. Everybody on the planet hated everything about it.

Even their cats hated it.

Even Steve hated it.

STEEEEEVE!

Seriously.

(And by seriously, I of course mean NOT seriously.)

I've been browsing here on and off all day and of the hundreds or thousand odd posts I've read, I've seen maybe a dozen people (myself included) say anything positive about the ending....

I don't give a damn if I'm the only person in the Western hemisphere who liked it.

People still don't get to say "we can disregard the opinions of everyone who likes the endings".

Your not the only one there is threads been created from people who liked it over past few days on and off and ambushed by those who who did not like it in order to drown out any alternative opinion due to fear it diminished their "everyone hates" stance. There is a thread in my sig (some spoilers inside) where many people expressed they liked it including myself.

[cinderburster]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I still have a lot of faith in BioWare, and I have absolutely nothing against any devs, moderators, etc.  I'm not a fan of the endings of ME3, and I doubt I ever will be.  I suspect the reason there hasn't been much of a statement from the devs is twofold:

1.  Creating a game takes a lot of man hours.  The devs, programmers, and everyone else involved are likley taking a much-needed break.  "But they shouldn't take one if people aren't happy!" you cry.  Well, no, actually, they really should, because otherwise they're not going to be mentally equipped to handle much of anything.

I think we forget sometimes that BioWare is run by people.  People that have lives outside of the industry and aren't physically plugged in to their computers.

2.  The game isn't out everywhere.  Why make a statement that will only have to be made again?  Better to wait until it's completely released and make a blanket statement rather than make one now.

THAT BEING SAID, there's been at least one poll where 40k people (that's people with BSN accounts) have indicated that they found the ending of ME3 unsatisfactory.

Forty thousand people.

Forty THOUSAND people.

That's roughly $2,400,000 (retail) worth of unsatisfied customers.

BioWare can't make a game just to please Jayce F. (I hope you don't mind me borrowing your name), but it isn't just Jayce F. that's unhappy.

Modifié par cinderburster, 15 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[bluewolv1970]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Unbelievable - what an arrogant attitude...but at least we know what Bioware thiks of its fans now...

[Amikae]

aLucidMind wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

and yet the endings would STRONGLY suggest otherwise...I mean given there is a poll here which has 99% of over 40,000 voters saying they did not like the endings...

Correction,

90%, not 99%. 42,000 people did not like the ending.
7% think it is okay with the exception of the Normandy
2% at less than 1,000 think it is good.

Yeah, but on a grander scale % of people who liked is even less. I participate in the biggest gaming and hardware forums in my country and not only, and let me tell you, the only people I've seen who liked the game ending, have been here on the BSN. Probably too huge fans of BioWare to admit they did something wrong.

So forgive me if I assume, that pretty much almost everyone disliked it,  because to me it looks that way. I haven't heard of anyone liking this outside of BSN. All the other forums I participate in are still in shock and denial.

Modifié par Amikae, 15 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[Vasarkian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

They mind as well take out the word 'like' and just leave it to what people disliked about it. Then again, it should be obvious what people dislike about it.

Yes.

Because nobody liked anything about the ending. Everybody on the planet hated everything about it.

Even their cats hated it.

Even Steve hated it.

STEEEEEVE!

Seriously.

(And by seriously, I of course mean NOT seriously.)

I've been browsing here on and off all day and of the hundreds or thousand odd posts I've read, I've seen maybe a dozen people (myself included) say anything positive about the ending....

I don't give a damn if I'm the only person in the Western hemisphere who liked it.

People still don't get to say "we can disregard the opinions of everyone who likes the endings".

Your not the only one there is threads been created from people who liked it over past few days on and off and ambushed by those who who did not like it in order to drown out any alternative opinion due to fear it diminished their "everyone hates" stance. There is a thread in my sig (some spoilers inside) where many people expressed they liked it including myself.

What if you liked the edited endings better though?

You see we're never going to like the endings, but if you like quality and you suddenly get a lot more detailed ending, isn't that better?

[dragonage200200]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply Bioware NEVER listens, it was just the lack of response bothering me. Some parts of ME3 helped me realize BW does listen with all the nods they had to their fan base, using memes and such.

[DigitalMaster37]

Thanks for the responses Stan, I appreciate that. It's good to hear from you guys regarding these issues. I've been a BioWare fan for a long, long time and I can vouch for the fact that you guys always listen. Of course you cannot please everyone, but I am curious as to the ratio of people dissatisfied with the ending to those that liked it. Honestly, I personally feel you guys still have cards up your sleeve and I am willing to bet that 100%, I've just come to know you guys.

I know you can't divulge much and for that matter you may not be privy to the information we seek, but I will say that I have hope that the endings have more to them, or you guys plan to add to it and continue that great reputation you all have forged since I've known you and before.

Thanks Stan, you and Chris have always been considerate and vocal in helping us the community understand things better or putting us at ease. Keep up the good work!

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 15 mars 2012 - 01:13 .

[aksoileau]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

You make a good point, but I just don't find it possible that someone in the room didn't raise their hand in protest about the endings?  Not even a little?  I know many of the employees are fans of the series too.  It's unfathomable not to believe that some of the water cooler talk had to show some resentment...

[bluewolv1970]

Tazzmission wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

If you want people to buy it you are...

We develop the game based on market research, general feedback, and our own ideas and goals.

The gamer with the screen name Jayce F ultimately has no control over what the end product will be. Jayce F can certainly make suggestions and critique the games and offer other feedback, but our games are not made "to please Jayce F."
And you likely bought Mass Effect 1 and enjoyed it. How could we have made that game "to please Jayce F" if it'sthe first game in the series, and the first game of a new franchise? Presumably, we kind of know what we're doing and made the game to please a section of the gaming market.

That's what I mean.

and yet the endings would STRONGLY suggest otherwise...I mean given there is a poll here which has 99% of over 40,000 voters saying they did not like the endings...

i like the ending choices mainly because its something new and yes it gives you a choice with all 3

lets be honest here the reason why people are so up in arms is because they didnt get a full on explination of the noramdy crew

if they included that explination how much you want to bet that there would be another bogus excuse to protest against something else?

yes you are right and the 40,000 people who did not like it ar wrong - The normandy crew scene is just a small part of what makes the ending suck a really small part of it.