1109 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

I havent finished the game yet, but I think that wether the endings are good or bad they should be left alone. It would have felt worse if there was a closure pack DLC to be had (I think I've made a grammatical monster here).

Changing the ending post-release cheapens the experience.

To remedy a situation I would opt for a Post Scriptum/Post Mortem expansion - if need be.

[taloris]

Modifié par taloris, 15 mars 2012 - 09:27 .

[die-yng]

nikola8 wrote...

I find it amusing that people are so up in arms about the ending. The "plot holes" that people claim are actually "perceived plot holes." I've heard many viable explanations to explain them- in other words, as much as people claim objective failures in the ending, the fact is that the ending fails to live up to their subjective expectations. The end of the Mass Effect trilogy isn't found in the final 10 minutes of Mass Effect 3, it is found throughout the game of Mass Effect 3. If Bioware caves and releases DLC endings, Mass Effect 3 turns into just another conventional game where everything is happily or tragically explained at the end. The fact that they don't explain everything shows respect by Bioware towards the gamers to figure it out on their own. Yes, the ending is unconventional, but it is very memorable. Just because people don't understand it doesn't mean they should hate it (although people tend to hate things they don't understand).

Please Bioware, do not release DLC endings. The endings in the game are perfect as is. Releasing new endings harms the creative integrity of the work. It also sets a dangerous precedent in which gamers expect that, with enough fan support, they can override the story of any game that they don't like a certain part of.

I've had it up to here with people claiming that the fans who don't like the ending "just don't understand it".
I understand the ending perfectly fine, it is not after all such a complicated idea/ concept.

It is just that the ending is not satisfactory at all. If you are fine with this ambiguity, that's great, but just because I wanted a little more closure or because I wanted the possibility to achieve a more positive ending, doesn't mean I don't get what the intend behind the as-of-yet-known-ending is.

Even if I just said I don't want to spend 100+ hours per playthrough of all three games to then have my char die off or get separated from friends and loved ones, that would be perfectly fine as well.
I paid for this game, I paid for it's predecessors and if I'm not satisfied with the endings I can get, then I feel ripped off and this will result in me not buying any more games by Bioware.

And that last paragraph is really funny. Where would be a problem in that? As long as the gamers are willing to pay for an alternate ending, why shouldn't they get what they want?

Bioware is always going on about how they want to listen to their fans and make their games better etc.. That is exactly what they should be doing now. No one is forced to buy a DLC with a new ending, but so far we are forced to just have this ending. Why should you be satisfied with your gaming experience and others shouldn't?

[Petrikles]

Being a press officer myself for some time, I asked myself how I would have handled the situation. Right now, seeing that challenge, I would love to work for Bioware...

I think the companies´ own forum is the best place to give voice, as it allows for public background explanations and not only statements, which could be a problem in a big corporate.

I also believe that taking an honest and transparent approach (as far as possible), is the best way to satisfy the public curiosity. Especially a game´s community. In my experience, those press officers (or whoever is entitled to speak in public, conference or on forums), who are the most "mouth-reined" can provide the least useful service to their body. That is because they are mostly inflexible to react properly to compelling points raised in typical q&a situations. When things get out of hands, the reflex to "shut up your pr dogs" is then mostly the dominant approach, but in my experience most of the time wrong.

Therefore, this thread here is a great signal and I am curious how much Bioware is ready to commit resources towards alleviating concerns and to incorporate the numerous feedback.

I did not reach the ending yet because I am hesitant to reach it. I strongly feel like many voices here in that I do believe the kind of ending Bioware chose was rather the domain of the Deus Ex Machina series and seems to not fit to the concept of Mass Effect franchise, as it turned out to be recieved by the community in the past, at all.

I also believe that a QA who knows Deus ex Machina, or for example the BSG TV series, both being famous pieces of SF these days, could have foreseen more than just a "dissatisfaction" some people "may" have. But, obviously, Q&A sometimes has "too many trees to see the forest", as we say in Germany.

[Memengwa]

Nikola, it's not about the endings I want. It's about endings that are LOGICAL and endings that I deserve, that the time I put into the game and the choices that I made up to that point. I don't care about knowing what the Reapers were up to. I don't care about being told what was going on, heck I can live with all of the choices leading to the death of my character. They just have to be logical and not feel like "OK, what do we do now? OK, lets do these 3 things" . No thank you. "And by the way, don't forget to buy our DLCs" is really, really a nail in the coffin after those 3 endings.

There are so many logical holes in the ending that it's mind-boggling. One of the minor being that suddenly the 2 people of my party, who should probably have died, are saved and in space? (I hope it's not too spoiling).

I want an ending that is on par with the briliantness of this game, that is as a masterpeace as this game has proven to be for me. Most companys make bad endings, and I'm used to this. But even knowing that, and preparing for being dissapointed, didn't prepare me for this.

[die-yng]

hangmans tree wrote...

I havent finished the game yet, but I think that wether the endings are good or bad they should be left alone. It would have felt worse if there was a closure pack DLC to be had (I think I've made a grammatical monster here).

Changing the ending post-release cheapens the experience.

To remedy a situation I would opt for a Post Scriptum/Post Mortem expansion - if need be.

To reply to your last sentence first. Wouldn't an added DLC ending be exactly ,that?

Please, just finish the game and we'll see what you think then, because I thought just the same, before I saw all those "three different endings."

[Mizar_Panzar]

dragonage200200 wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

They mind as well take out the word 'like' and just leave it to what people disliked about it. Then again, it should be obvious what people dislike about it.

There are few things, but someparts of the ending I like, EX: The moment when Shepard and Anderson are sitting together looking at Earth.

And would it not be perfect if the game just finished there instead of all the stupid space-kid stuff.......

[Mydknightcloud]

I will probably more happy with it if more was explained. I guess I can wait for a DLC or an official word from Bioware/EA. The end was thought provoking. I liked that part, but I was also under the impression that this would wrap everything up. I suppose you didn't promise to wrap it up right away....

I just get the feeling your going to come out of left field and surprise us with something we should have expected from a company that was capable of such an intricate plot.

Still, I will sit and wait for an official response. Thinking of what the implications of the ending means until something happens.

[SergiusTheGreat]

They are listening, they always are. Those endings need to be fixed, but eh the blame shouldn't be put on someone or something, it has happened, end of story. Let us just hope they release some DLC or something. In the end, it depends on the reaction, and boy did get it? Heh.

Modifié par SergiusTheGreat, 15 mars 2012 - 09:42 .

[Nykara]

Mydknightcloud wrote...

I will probably more happy with it if more was explained. I guess I can wait for a DLC or an official word from Bioware/EA. The end was thought provoking. I liked that part, but I was also under the impression that this would wrap everything up. I suppose you didn't promise to wrap it up right away....

I just get the feeling your going to come out of left field and surprise us with something we should have expected from a company that was capable of such an intricate plot.

Still, I will sit and wait for an official response. Thinking of what the implications of the ending means until something happens.

Totally this.
The part I put in bold

[marstor05]

downloadable content incoming which shows EDI knitting Jeff a brand new sweater for his 50th Birthday, Jack becoming head mistress at St Trinians, Miranda opening her own Botox-for-butts boutique, Liara taking over from Tony Robinson on 'Time Team', Tali becoming the new face of Estee Lauder, Samara presenting 'Songs of Praise', Garrus auditioning for 'Batman', Ashley modelling for Jean Paul Gautier, Shepard sat in a retirement home, smoking a pipe and showing the ladies his implants.

Closure.

[Tonymac]

I have my doubts - I read just Yesterday on MSNBC about Casey Hudson supporting the end with steadfast resolve.

http://www.ingame.ms...s-ending-442217

It seems to be they are flipping us the bird and doing the helicopter trick. I guess thats cool and all. He can support it. I don't, and I am not buying their products anymore. How he can support an ending that is basically a ripoff of the Matrix series is beyond me.

[MeanderingMind]

marstor05 wrote...

downloadable content incoming which shows EDI knitting Jeff a brand new sweater for his 50th Birthday, Jack becoming head mistress at St Trinians, Miranda opening her own Botox-for-butts boutique, Liara taking over from Tony Robinson on 'Time Team', Tali becoming the new face of Estee Lauder, Samara presenting 'Songs of Praise', Garrus auditioning for 'Batman', Ashley modelling for Jean Paul Gautier, Shepard sat in a retirement home, smoking a pipe and showing the ladies his implants.

Closure.

Somehow made me recall the ending of Six Feet Under. That ending was really beautiful imho.

[nikola8]

Polat995 wrote...

Sorry, Nikola. It must be real epilogue that explains everything, there musn't be squad members teleported to Normandy, etc

I could debate the "teleported" theory quite easily, but we're not supposed to put spoilers in this discussion.  Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

[I-am-Biwinning]

nikola8 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Sorry, Nikola. It must be real epilogue that explains everything, there musn't be squad members teleported to Normandy, etc

I could debate the "teleported" theory quite easily, but we're not supposed to put spoilers in this discussion.  Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

Creativity? Watch the "Colorful explosions" video on youtube. It's a spoiler so I can't link it, but it shouldn't be too hard to find. The video puts all of the endings side by side. The only real difference is the color of the explosion. That's far from what I'd call creative. There was nothing unique or ground breaking about it. You're just funneled into a cliche sci fi movie ending that pretty much disreguards the entire direction of the rest of the game, as well as the promises from the deveolopers.

[Memengwa]

Tonymac wrote...

I have my doubts - I read just Yesterday on MSNBC about Casey Hudson supporting the end with steadfast resolve.

http://www.ingame.ms...s-ending-442217

It seems to be they are flipping us the bird and doing the helicopter trick. I guess thats cool and all. He can support it. I don't, and I am not buying their products anymore. How he can support an ending that is basically a ripoff of the Matrix series is beyond me.

Of course he supports it. If he didn't support it, it wouldn't have gotten into the game in the first place. As a company they have to own to what they have done. They made the choice, and this is what we got. And they stand behind their choice, that's not something to be upset about.

What we can hope for is that they realise that maybe, just maybe they can try and see things from our point of view, and that maybe they all know deep down that this was a rushed ending. But even if this is what everyone in the company would feel, they still need to stand behind the choice that has been made. It's just how things work.

[nikola8]

die-yng wrote...

Bioware is always going on about how they want to listen to their fans and make their games better etc.. That is exactly what they should be doing now. No one is forced to buy a DLC with a new ending, but so far we are forced to just have this ending. Why should you be satisfied with your gaming experience and others shouldn't?

Games are mediums of art in today's world.  If Mass Effect 3 were somehow turned into a movie, it would win Best Picture.  If it were a novel, it would be a NY Times bestseller.  In either of those mediums, if someone didn't like the ending, they would not release a redo (unless you're George Lucas with Star Wars, then you'll get a new version every 10 years, but that's beside the point).  Bioware has the right to control the game, even if the players make the decisions.  It is still their game.  Bioware has indeed said that they listen to their fans, and they do.  However, that has always come in the form of playable DLC, not ending DLC.  Perhaps they'll release new missions that help provide closure, but I would be very surprised to see them release actual DLC endings.  Even today, Casey Hudson came out and defended the ending.  He did talk about new single-player and multi-player DLC.  Follow the link below for the article:

http://www.digitalsp...nds-ending.html 

Additionally, the game has received universal critical acclaim (over 30 perfect scores).  The game is also selling well, despite the uproar about the ending.  Bioware, I assume, would be more inclined to change the ending if the game wasn't doing so well critically or if its sales numbers were low, but that isn't the case in either regard. 

Modifié par nikola8, 15 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Memengwa]

Ok, I think we should stop this from being another "the ending thread". It's about the discussion with BioWare. The ending thread is the one with over 1000 pages in it.

[I-am-Biwinning]

nikola8 wrote...

die-yng wrote...

Bioware is always going on about how they want to listen to their fans and make their games better etc.. That is exactly what they should be doing now. No one is forced to buy a DLC with a new ending, but so far we are forced to just have this ending. Why should you be satisfied with your gaming experience and others shouldn't?

Games are mediums of art in today's world.  If Mass Effect 3 were somehow turned into a movie, it would win Best Picture.  If it were a novel, it would be a NY Times bestseller.  In either of those mediums, if someone didn't like the ending, they would not release a redo (unless you're George Lucas with Star Wars, then you'll get a new version every 10 years, but that's beside the point).  Bioware has the right to control the game, even if the players make the decisions.  It is still their game.  Bioware has indeed said that they listen to their fans, and they do.  However, that has always come in the form of playable DLC, not ending DLC.  Perhaps they'll release new missions that help provide closure, but I would be very surprised to see them release actual DLC endings.  Even today, Casey Hudson came out and defended the ending.  He did talk about new single-player and multi-player DLC.  Follow the link below for the article:

http://www.digitalsp...nds-ending.html

Look, you can't even help but say it yourself. There's only one ending no matter what you do. We get to customize the colors, and practically nothing else about how the game ends. We were promised vastly different endings based on the choices we made. Whle we can't expect bioware to live up to all our expectations, we should expect them to do what they've promised.

Modifié par I-am-Biwinning, 15 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Wintermancer]

[/quote]

What if you liked the edited endings better though?

You see we're never going to like the endings, but if you like quality and you suddenly get a lot more detailed ending, isn't that better?

[/quote]

This. I'm planning to put up a more detailed post about my issue with the endings in the next day or two (a bit busy with other stuff RL at the moment), which is something I once swore I would never do on a forum; however, ME3 has definitely pulled me into the discussion. As someone whose background is script analysis and creative writing, having worked as both a writer and ghost writer in both literary and visual mediums, I certainly feel luster and polish in the last couple of minutes would have gone a great deal toward making the endings better received. I "see what they did there," or tried to do, and completely think it would have worked with a few specific polish changes. Of course, now that the suspension of disbelief is broken, and discontent has caused so many people to "what if" the ending, it will be very, very hard to correct. You see this issue happen in professional run coops and workshops all the time, in fact. The opinions of those who offer constructive criticism, whether implemented or not in a revision, will usually not hinder the participant's reception of whichever direction the revision/polish goes (I use the word participant here, by the way, instead of viewer or reader, because interactive entertainment is a participatory form of expression); yet, when the draft presented to the participant is uneven enough that the parts which need work leave them jarred and unsatisfied, it will be very difficult for those participants to accept a revision which ends up not incorporating their suggestions--even if the revised product addresses the overall concerns, from a quality and execution standpoint. This is why it's usually smart to use a completely different audience in the next round of polish, to maintain a fresh perspective on the work's progression... and this is a luxury not afforded to a product already commercially released. Sure, digital delivery affords the medium of games with an opportunity to edit after publication, which most other mediums don't readily allow (with the exception of prose, as it is evolving as a result of the increasing prevalence of e-readers, but that's an entirely different discussion), but you can't make the audience forget what they have already experienced. At this point, BioWare may very well be damned if they do, damned if they don't. The best bet would be not to make any radical changes, but only "smooth out" the inconsistencies in the ending sequence as it stands (ie, don't have people who were killed next to me on the ground suddenly alive in the Normandy outro), and otherwise leave it intact.

Okay, that turned out longer than I intended. Oops!

Modifié par Wintermancer, 15 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[nikola8]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Look, you can't even help but say it yourself. There's only one ending no matter what you do. We get to customize the colors, and practically nothing else about how the game ends. We were promised vastly different endings based on the choices we made. Whle we can't expect bioware to live up to all our expectations, we should expect them to do what they've promised.

And you do get that, IF you look for it.  The end of the Mass Effect trilogy isn't found in the final 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3, it is in the entire game of Mass Effect 3.  You have to be proactive and interact with people throughout, and if you do, you get some great closure.  Your choices DO come to fruition.  The way you end the game is a product of the entire game.  There isn't a lot of variation in the final cut scene, but that is only a small section of the ending that is found throughout the game.

[taloris]

nikola8 wrote...

Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

Simple really- closure; that's what epilogues are for. In it's current state there just doesn't seem to be any definitive closure. Personally (apart from the obvious reasons that have been staed everywhere more than once) I got the vibe it felt unfinished, but the way it ended didn't really seem like it was left in such a way where they could pull a fouth game out of the hat. At least nothing that would make sense... or maybe I'm missing something. Basically I just sat there for a minute or two simply thinking W...T...F... just happened?

The whole story up until that point was just so frikkin epically fantastic (I would have liked a little more convos on the Normandy with my squadmates like in the previous games, but I digress) that the ending was almost insulting with how vague it is on everyone's fate. I may do a replay or two, but at this point for me the game will end while Shepard and Anderson stare out into space.

[Memengwa]

Wintermancer . The people that died, aren't the only illogical thing, to me it's the one that is the most minor and easiest to explain. It's the one that is EASIEST to fix. But it will not fix the ending.

but to explain more I'd have to be a lot more spoilific.

Modifié par Memengwa, 15 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[Tirigon]

JohnEpler wrote...


Mostly because you were quoting the other guy, who had spoilers.

Also, I oppose the return of the Old Ones and all their priests.

Dont we all? I mean, give each Reaper 20 tentacles and they practically ARE the Old Ones, and the indoctrinated are their priests;)

[Wintermancer]

Memengwa wrote...

The people that died, aren't the only illogical thing, to me it's the one that is the most minor and easiest to explain. It's the one that is EASIEST to fix. But it will not fix the ending.

You are correct; I was merely using the most obvious issue as an example. Still, a handful of very subtle adjustments would go a long way.