1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Wintermancer]

Tirigon wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...


Mostly because you were quoting the other guy, who had spoilers.

Also, I oppose the return of the Old Ones and all their priests.

Dont we all? I mean, give each Reaper 20 tentacles and they practically ARE the Old Ones, and the indoctrinated are their priests;)

Yeah, once upon a time I read on the internet an editorial about how the writer felt Mass Effect's universe was grounded in cosmicist philosophy. So this comparison you're making between the Reapers and the Old Ones makes a great deal of sense.

[Rockworm503]

So we finally get our "proper ending" DLC.
The camera pans out of the wartorn london out into the cosmos and its one of those moments where it pans out and its someone waking up.
Its Jenkins on Eden Prime.
Shepard and Kaiden run to him (they fought off the drones or whatever) to see if he's ok.
Jenkins says "man that was the weirdest dream ever"

[AshenSugar]

Stan, thank you for responding to this thread.

I can't say that I'm as emotionally torn as many of the people posting on these forums. I can certainly live with the ending as it stands; even though I would have personally hoped for something that gave some form of closure to Shepard's story, and would have certainly expected the decisions I made throughout the three games to have some kind of meaningful impact on the final conclusion.

I do feel that when writing and scripting Mass Effect, you may have been looking at the scenario from the perspective of a movie.

I think that for many fans, a game is not quite the same as a movie. The simple fact that a game such as Mass Effect is an interactive experience, that causes us to shape, and invest a great deal of ourselves and our own emotions into the story, driving it along via our own decisions, (rather than simply observing from a passive standpoint), entails that the average fan (myself definitely included) needs to feel some kind of personal satisfaction when reaching the end of the journey.

Basically, we need to get that 'sit back, light a cigarette, watch the credits in the satisfaction of a job well done' sensation - One, which (in the case of the current ME3 ending) is completely denied to us - Instead we are left in an emotional state which is profoundly negative, many unanswered questions, and a strong sense of abject failure.

For all my efforts, my actions were futile

This might be great in a film noir, but it probably doesn't translate so well into a video game medium.

I therefore urge you Stan to at least consider some alternatives to the stark nihilism currently offered within the game's closing sequence - perhaps starting with the alternative take, 'dream/indoctrination' theory extrapolated by fans within this forum. (Assuming that you have not done so already, as many feel this may indeed be your long-term goal in terms of DLC).

http://social.biowar...index/9727423/1


That for me would wrap things up nicely, giving me the ending I want, together with adding a pleasing twist to the story.

Thank you for listening.

[Rockworm503]

nikola8 wrote...

I find it amusing that people are so up in arms about the ending. The "plot holes" that people claim are actually "perceived plot holes." I've heard many viable explanations to explain them- in other words, as much as people claim objective failures in the ending, the fact is that the ending fails to live up to their subjective expectations. The end of the Mass Effect trilogy isn't found in the final 10 minutes of Mass Effect 3, it is found throughout the game of Mass Effect 3. If Bioware caves and releases DLC endings, Mass Effect 3 turns into just another conventional game where everything is happily or tragically explained at the end. The fact that they don't explain everything shows respect by Bioware towards the gamers to figure it out on their own. Yes, the ending is unconventional, but it is very memorable. Just because people don't understand it doesn't mean they should hate it (although people tend to hate things they don't understand).

Please Bioware, do not release DLC endings. The endings in the game are perfect as is. Releasing new endings harms the creative integrity of the work. It also sets a dangerous precedent in which gamers expect that, with enough fan support, they can override the story of any game that they don't like a certain part of.

I find posts like this amusing.
Their "creative integrity" died the second the credits roled and their promises about our choices mattering was nothing but a joke.
You might happy with lazy writing but don't go saying we don't get just because we're not happy with the ending.

[Rockworm503]

nikola8 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Sorry, Nikola. It must be real epilogue that explains everything, there musn't be squad members teleported to Normandy, etc

I could debate the "teleported" theory quite easily, but we're not supposed to put spoilers in this discussion.  Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

Its ok to admit you like bad things.
I like certain things that are not good but I don't go around saying its good just to make myself feel better.
There is nothing in this reality that makes the ending good subjective opinion or not.

[Memengwa]

Wintermancer wrote...

Memengwa wrote...

The people that died, aren't the only illogical thing, to me it's the one that is the most minor and easiest to explain. It's the one that is EASIEST to fix. But it will not fix the ending.

You are correct; I was merely using the most obvious issue as an example. Still, a handful of very subtle adjustments would go a long way.

Maybe they would. I'm not so sure about it. But it can be because of what you said, that anything they do now with the ending isn't going to fix it for me, who already saw it.

Well, at this time I'm not in envy of BioWare's team. I'd really love for someone to answer to the "What were you thinking?" question, but we all know none of them is going to. Unless you live in Edmninto, are a buddy with some of them and/or get them drunk.

[Rockworm503]

nikola8 wrote...

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Look, you can't even help but say it yourself. There's only one ending no matter what you do. We get to customize the colors, and practically nothing else about how the game ends. We were promised vastly different endings based on the choices we made. Whle we can't expect bioware to live up to all our expectations, we should expect them to do what they've promised.

And you do get that, IF you look for it.  The end of the Mass Effect trilogy isn't found in the final 10-15 minutes of Mass Effect 3, it is in the entire game of Mass Effect 3.  You have to be proactive and interact with people throughout, and if you do, you get some great closure.  Your choices DO come to fruition.  The way you end the game is a product of the entire game.  There isn't a lot of variation in the final cut scene, but that is only a small section of the ending that is found throughout the game.

I can't get into it without spoilers but currently on my 2nd playthrough and seeing things I did differently from back in ME1 and having the EXACT SAME OUTCOME at the point where it should matter makes everything you say ring hollow.
I'm not even talking about the end anymore.
I'll tell you more in a private message if you wish but the point is your trying to rationalize this when the simple fact is our choices do not matter and its a hard pill to swallow so I understand why you're so quick to defend it.

[Memengwa]

Rockworm503, I'd like a PM from you about it, though I have my susicions of what you're talking about.

[Beefcake9000]

Stanley Woo wrote...

That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

Actually, I'd think you'd want to develop a game that pleased your fans. Isn't that the point? Mass Effect 3 wouldn't exist without the support of the fans - with those of us who invested our time and money into this franchise. We were promised an ending that provided closure, with a variety of endings that reflected the choices we made throughout the trilogy.

You didn't deliver.

I've seen people talk about how the ending was intended to be 'polarizing'. Really? You set out to create an ending that you expected as much as 50% (more like 90%, given the polls) of your fan base would hate? Who thought that would be a good idea?

ME3 was not the time to try to be clever or daring. It was a time to play it safe, to give people the closure they expected. Maybe that would be a little tired, a little cliched - but you know what - it works. You can't make everyone happy, but you could've so easily made 90% of us happy. Instead, you've made 90% of us very, very dissapointed.

Of course, ME3's ending is netiher clever, nor daring. It's shoddy, lazy and full of problems. It utterly astounds me because the rest of the game is so very solid in its writing.

I have no desire to replay any of the ME games now, becaue I know that my choices are worthless, because I know that in the very end, I will see no resolution to those choices, to my unique story. No matter what Shepard I play as, no matter what choices I make, the end will always be the same. It flys completely in the face of everything the ME series stood for.

Simply saying 'but now you can imagine and talk about what happens next' isn't good enough. It's lazy and appalling. Up until I stepped out onto that platform with god-child at the end, I honestly believed ME3 was the best game in the series. It was fantastic. Then, it didn't just stumble, but it fell flat on it's face and left me never wanting to touch the game, or any of the other games, again.

I see people talking about dream/indocrination theories, but I really think that's just grasping at straws. I'd like to believe it, because I can't imagine your writers went completely nuts not no real reason at the end there. But I fear Bioware will simply defend this 'ending' as their 'artisitic vision' or some other nonsense. No. Just no.

As someone who writes and edits fiction for a living, if an author came to me with this ending I would've punched him in the nuts. Well, okay, I wouldn't have. But I would've reminded him that the only reason he got to write this third story was because of the support of his readers buying his previous books, that they were invested in this story and he owed it to them to give as many of them a fitting resolution as he could. I would've thought that's what Bioware would've wanted too. Apparantly not.

That's a damn shame, because this could've ended so easily, it practically writes itself. Obvious? Safe? Sure! But it would've given people closure and sometimes that's the most important thing.

[Nachtritter76]

@BeefCake9000: Pretty much, yes. People can say that ME3 is Bioware's game all they want; at the end of the day however, they might have had plans and ideas to fill a library with but if people didn't buy ME1, there would have been no ME2, and if people didn't buy enough ME2, there would be no ME3.

So why not give the fans what they always wanted...?

[Dormiglione]

I didnt bought ME3 til now, because i wanted to read some of the reviews first. I have also read part of the threads about the endings. I know this will cause some flames, but i decided now to buy ME3 because of the endings. 
Sure i like "happy ends", i also like to have a proper conclusion of a story. But then i thought about possible endings, i have read a few of the feedbacks with their proposed endings and none of them satisfied me. I know, lot of people want to have a "good" ending but if i look back at the whole story through ME1 and ME2 i dont see how it should come to a good ending. The reaper have a superior technology, have a horde of ships, a plan and a strategy elaborated over thousands of years, so what should happen? Would you like an ending where shepard would find the "ultimate  button" to deactivate all reapers at once and saved the whole galaxy?
I dont think so. But to be clear, thats my opinion.

 Well, thank you Bioware for having the courage and the creativity to build ME3 with some "unexpected" endings.

[Lux]

Regarding the thread title, it's fair to assume that they always listen but don't necessarily act on specific feedback. In this case, I think it's more like they're starting to understand that this isn't about gamer entitlement but about them inexplicably dropping the ball right at the end of a great game.

I'm a sucker for great storytelling from start to finish (which BW had been able to excel). That's the reason why I like RPGs. I don't appreciate FPS's that much and wouldn't touch a game like Mass Effect if it wasn't for its great RPG elements. I intensely dislike when storytelling gets rushed and is plagued with plotholes. That's true with books, movies, TV series and RPGs. There was no way I would get ME3 after I (fortunately) got hold of critical spoilers. It was a bittersweet decision not to complete my Mass Effect experience after following it for so long, but it was the right choice for me.

I'm pretty riled up with all of this because the games BioWare has more recently been making aren't the ones I'm that interested in playing (MMOs excluded, up to a point). It seems that they have concluded that a large percentile of players are more interested in the playing part of a game while story is a perfectly secondary backdrop when it comes to prioritize limited resources. ME3 being a game with polished mechanics but with a sloppy ending seems to indicate that. Multiplayer, which also illustrates the new focus in game-making from BW, was probably considered more important to implement than polish the finale of what had been, for me, a great storytelling experience.

There's many good games out there with great game mechanics but there aren't that many developers able to add great storytelling to that formula. That's what made BioWare special in my view. BioWare is losing the edge/reputation it had and is becoming less significant each time it comes up with stunts like the latest one.

To spoil the experience of an otherwise great game is one thing. But to belittle the finale of a space opera epic that spawned three games throughout 5 years is a whole new level of disappointment.

[Eain]

Stanley I'm just curious if you're still prowling this thread (or intend to prowl it later, same goes for John if you're still around):

You keep mentioning that it's possible that someone may not dislike the ending, and that each person can really only speak for themselves. True, but what I wonder is how anyone with the slightest knack for logic can overcome the glaring plotholes introduced in the end. From a fan's perspective the ending can be either satisfying or not, but from a writer's perspective it just seems poorly written. It really fails to take into account the preceding trilogy and what the lore has established throughout it. And that goes beyond just what happens in that fateful conversation everyone seems to hate, and already sort of begins the moment you first get sent on a mission by the Asari Councillor. It's more or less from there that the game begins to deteriorate.

I mean, are those not legitimate concerns? Because then you're not speaking of taste, you're speaking of something factual, of sabotage. Maybe not intended sabotage, but sabotage even so. When a fictional setting fails to be consistent no amount of in-universe theories is going to make sense of it, because an in-universe theory solving an external problem is like trying to avoid sinking by scooping out water seeping into a ship through it's hull, when the true solution lies with the hull being repaired.

Modifié par Eain, 15 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[Polat995]

nikola8 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Sorry, Nikola. It must be real epilogue that explains everything, there musn't be squad members teleported to Normandy, etc

I could debate the "teleported" theory quite easily, but we're not supposed to put spoilers in this discussion.  Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

I don't hate, I 'm just saying this end is not for epic game series. If there isn't epilogue who answer what happened to LI, etc, it's like Bioware saying that: Ok, game is ended, bye... Also they are saying that there are 16 endings. No, there are 2 endings (Saving collector base or not) with slight variations and there are only 1 choice seems like 3. Sorry, I can't say "what a great ending" to that.

Modifié par Polat995, 15 mars 2012 - 11:35 .

[die-yng]

Dormiglione wrote...

I didnt bought ME3 til now, because i wanted to read some of the reviews first. I have also read part of the threads about the endings. I know this will cause some flames, but i decided now to buy ME3 because of the endings. 
Sure i like "happy ends", i also like to have a proper conclusion of a story. But then i thought about possible endings, i have read a few of the feedbacks with their proposed endings and none of them satisfied me. I know, lot of people want to have a "good" ending but if i look back at the whole story through ME1 and ME2 i dont see how it should come to a good ending. The reaper have a superior technology, have a horde of ships, a plan and a strategy elaborated over thousands of years, so what should happen? Would you like an ending where shepard would find the "ultimate  button" to deactivate all reapers at once and saved the whole galaxy?
I dont think so. But to be clear, thats my opinion.

 Well, thank you Bioware for having the courage and the creativity to build ME3 with some "unexpected" endings.

That's what it was all about, beating the impossible odds. And with Shepard , you could always deliver.
Except for this ending, where you are basically just a spectator who only get's to choose which bad end is the least bad one.

Also, and I'm really just wondering about this, no disrespect or anything, but where is the fun in playing gamew ith a depressing ending? Where yould you get the motivation?

Like if there was no way to save your daughter in Silent Hill, why bother playing it?

Okay, if it was horror or zombie apocalypse, but even those usually end on a more positive note.

[ShadowHawk141]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I can't get into it without spoilers but currently on my 2nd playthrough and seeing things I did differently from back in ME1 and having the EXACT SAME OUTCOME at the point where it should matter makes everything you say ring hollow.
I'm not even talking about the end anymore.
I'll tell you more in a private message if you wish but the point is your trying to rationalize this when the simple fact is our choices do not matter and its a hard pill to swallow so I understand why you're so quick to defend it.

I totaly agree with you here, although the ending is extremely unsatisfactory there are many more occasions where you think  "hmm that's not right I choose this and that in Me1 and Me2"
I tried to rationalise the ending before starting my 2nd playthrough with a different import from Me2 but as I'm progressing I'm more and more dissaponted, I could live with some plotholes etc. the conclusion at the ending of the game is what realy discardes everything you ever did during the three game journy.
I realy realy wan't to like Me3 but I just can't, the ending is overshadowing all episodes and makes them meaningless.
This site reflectes about how I feel BW dropped the ball here.

MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS:

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

I sincerely hope BW will do something to alter the endings, It would reflect my enthousiasm for the games they produce which I think are absolutly the best.

My 2 cents

[morrie23]

They are always listening, but as Mr Woo has said, it doesn't mean they will agree or act upon our feedback. However, if the backlash against the end of ME3 starts to hurt their bottom line, then they might be forced to do something.

[Actinguy1]

Stanley (and anyone else who cares),

Thank you so much for your feedback in this thread. It is reassuring to know that someone is listening. As someone who works in research, I am well aware that you must be wary of blindly following the most vocal feedback, as you can often misinterpret the so-called "silent majority." That in mind, I appreciate you taking the time to address us on these topics, even if you can't say much.

From what I have read of your responses, my guess is maybe you didn't anticipate the response to the ending, which suggests that it was not necessarily a part of some master DLC plan, which suggests that if there ever is any DLC coming that addresses this, it must be written, voiced, programmed, artwork done, QC, etc. Probably a long, long time until we actually get it? Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Just my impression.

But if you guys are sincerely surprised by the fan reaction, I wonder if I might be able to help. Some people are upset because a certain technological advance is destroyed. Some people are upset because they honestly thought that if they worked hard enough, they could have a happily ever after ending, sitting on a beach with their love interest, relaxing on the seashells.

Or studying the seashells, as the case might be.

Not me. I didn't want an ending where everyone lived happily ever after. When I completed ME2, I'd lost 40% of my squad and half of my crew. And you know what? I felt like I had WON. I had led a team on a suicide mission, and I got more than half of my squad out of there alive. That's pretty badass. Some people got 100% of their squad out alive, even without cheating or reading spoilers, and good for them...but I'm glad that wasn't me. The very first character who died for me was Tali. I was never a Tali fan, but I knew that most people were...so if Tali could die, then anyone could. I had characters I cared passionately about. I knew that if I reloaded enough times, I would complete the mission and "win" the game. But who was going to be standing with me in the end? Would my favorite characters Grunt and Mordin make the ultimate sacrifices? There were certainly casualties. I lost Tali, Thane, Miranda, and, yes, even Grunt. Heartbreaking. But when Mordin fell off the platform at the end, and Shepard grabbed his hand and pulled him up...only to have Mordin return the favor when Shepard almost failed to make the jump back to the Normandy...this was a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

The fact that other people had very similar endings did not matter. They caught someone on the platform. Someone caught them on the Normandy. Fine. I had no problem with this. Other people have their endings, which is fine. But in my ending, Tali died. And then Thane was taken away by the Sweaper storms. But Garrus kept his team alive. Then Grunt got shot. And I discovered after getting to the Normandy that Miranda hadn't made it out alive.

I had closure. Heartbreaking closure for some, awesome heroic closure for others. But I knew what happened to the characters I cared about.

This is not true in ME3. I will avoid spoilers, but after a certain running sequence, I truly believed the two characters I cared about most in the entire franchise (other than one who had died heroically earlier) were dead. And it was my fault.

AWESOME. I freaking LOVED this. It gave my Shepard motivation to soldier on, take out the Reapers even if he gave his last breath to do it.

And then the confrontation scene. Great, love it. A touching scene between mentor and student. Perfect. Even the unexpected radio call to say things aren't done yet. I thought it was hilarious, even if that's not what you guys were going for. Everything up to this moment is pure gold.

Then there was some utter nonsense. But THAT'S OKAY. I thought it was silly, but fine. I came here to do a job, I've been told now how to do the job, so I go shoot this thing, and it'll be over. Mission accomplished.

Then we get the cutscenes. THIS IS WHERE IT ALL FALLS APART. We don't get closure on the Krogans or Asaris or Salarians or whatever, but fine. It would be a better game with that closure, but that's okay. We've spent the entire game dictating what will happen to these species. We can fill in the blanks. Even the loss of a certain technological advance doesn't necessarily bother me.

What DOES bother me most of all is the absolute last shot before the credits. We get ZERO closure on most of our squadmates. These people have been our best friends, maybe even our lovers, for a hundred hours...and I have NO IDEA what happened to most of them at the end. Alive? Dead? Nobody knows! Even worse, remember when I told you two of my favorite characters in the entire franchise died? Well, one of them came back to life! On a completely different planet than where they had died! HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

Do you see the difference between the ending in ME2 and ME3? In ME2, I didn't care that it was a downer ending (losing Grunt). I felt satisfied because I knew I had saved the lives of Mordin and Jack and Garrus. In ME3, I have no such closure. Even the few characters I see who are alive contradict who I earlier saw die.

I apologize for the long rambling, but I wanted to specify that we don't all need a happy ending. I'd be 100% on board with an ending where all of civilization forever got wiped out. Just let me know that's what happened. I'm left with this empty feeling of not knowing who among my crew lived or died.

[Funker Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

I respect the need for people working a publically traded company to watch what they are saying. I understand that several times in the past a vocal minority has managed to create a storm in a teacup over relatively minor issues in Bioware games. However what you should respect is that it's not always going to be the same - one day there is going to be a real bona fide make-it-or-break-it issue. My analysis is that we have reached that point now, or are at least very close to it, depending on how you recover. The two guys writing at Forbes seem to be reading the situation the same way. I think you guys should consider for a second that there are few other ways of communcating with you, and instead of "note-worthy", the situation could be possibly a lot more alarming than that.

My opinion is of course based on my empirical sample of one, myself, as well as some friends who generally feel the same way about games. I've been playing Bioware games since 1998 and have never had an issue that took me more than a shrug to dismiss. We've stood up to you in many of the storm-in-the-teacup arguments, trying to point out that the people are picking at nits. But this time I've pretty much had it, and the slight undercurrent of arrogance being projected towards your upset fans(mostly by gaming "journalists" and less by Bioware, I admit), is not helping. Titanic sunk on hubris, and it's close to the 100th anniversary now. Let's not have a rerun.

[Petrikles]

ShadowHawk141 wrote...
...
MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS:

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

I sincerely hope BW will do something to alter the endings, It would reflect my enthousiasm for the games they produce which I think are absolutly the best.

My 2 cents

The article in the above link sums it up very nicely.

[taloris]

It doesn't even have to be about a 'happy ending' just ultimately one that makes sense. There are some big WTF moments and plotholes you could probably fly the giant galactic armada you assemble through them. Sure, if you're a Renegade to the nines you can't really expect your story to end well but at the same time it should at least make sense. At the opposite end of the scale you have the ultimate Paragons who would maybe deserve a little treat of a happier ending than usual. Happy, sad, whatever- I just want something that doesn't leave me wondering what's going on.

So far I've seen seven different endings (gogo youtube, no way am I going to do that many playthroughs as it stands right now)l and of them offers no closure on any questions at all, for obvious reasons.

I'm feeling a little cheated that none of my choices made any god damn difference in the long run....

[magnuskn]

Stanley Woo wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

The situation, as is, happens to be slightly different. The game mostly is fantastic and about everyone seems to agree on that... until the ending. The ending, however, is so horrific that it colors the whole rest of the game and, indeed, the entire franchise. One of the most common complaint seen is "What did I do all this for, when it all comes to nothing in the end?".

Fundamentally, the entire three games were about player agency, about player choice mattering for the ultimate outcome of the story. As such, the ending taking that so very little in account and with three quite similar final outcomes is something which really rankles. And that is aside the whole bag of plotholes and worries about the fate favorite characters. Especially those of the dextro persuasion.

Modifié par magnuskn, 15 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[Ferretinabun]

I think Bioware really do listen to their fans. Almost to a fault. In both ME2 and DA2, a lot of the changes made were complaints or issues people had with the first installments.

Sometimes people like the changes, sometimes they don't, and then Bioware get it in the neck again. There's just no pleasing some people.

Yes Bioware has it's faults, but I don't see how anyone can fault them on responding to customer feedback.

As for rewriting the ending, I think that's a ludicrous idea. I mean yes I thought it was done very poorly, but the idea that Bioware would just write a different ending because fans don't like it is ridiculous. For better or worse, that was the ending to ME3.

[philippe willaume]

Actinguy1 wrote...

Stanley (and anyone else who cares),

Thank you so much for your feedback in this thread. It is reassuring to know that someone is listening. As someone who works in research, I am well aware that you must be wary of blindly following the most vocal feedback, as you can often misinterpret the so-called "silent majority." That in mind, I appreciate you taking the time to address us on these topics, even if you can't say much.

From what I have read of your responses, my guess is maybe you didn't anticipate the response to the ending, which suggests that it was not necessarily a part of some master DLC plan, which suggests that if there ever is any DLC coming that addresses this, it must be written, voiced, programmed, artwork done, QC, etc. Probably a long, long time until we actually get it? Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Just my impression.

But if you guys are sincerely surprised by the fan reaction, I wonder if I might be able to help. Some people are upset because a certain technological advance is destroyed. Some people are upset because they honestly thought that if they worked hard enough, they could have a happily ever after ending, sitting on a beach with their love interest, relaxing on the seashells.

Or studying the seashells, as the case might be.

Not me. I didn't want an ending where everyone lived happily ever after. When I completed ME2, I'd lost 40% of my squad and half of my crew. And you know what? I felt like I had WON. I had led a team on a suicide mission, and I got more than half of my squad out of there alive. That's pretty badass. Some people got 100% of their squad out alive, even without cheating or reading spoilers, and good for them...but I'm glad that wasn't me. The very first character who died for me was Tali. I was never a Tali fan, but I knew that most people were...so if Tali could die, then anyone could. I had characters I cared passionately about. I knew that if I reloaded enough times, I would complete the mission and "win" the game. But who was going to be standing with me in the end? Would my favorite characters Grunt and Mordin make the ultimate sacrifices? There were certainly casualties. I lost Tali, Thane, Miranda, and, yes, even Grunt. Heartbreaking. But when Mordin fell off the platform at the end, and Shepard grabbed his hand and pulled him up...only to have Mordin return the favor when Shepard almost failed to make the jump back to the Normandy...this was a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

The fact that other people had very similar endings did not matter. They caught someone on the platform. Someone caught them on the Normandy. Fine. I had no problem with this. Other people have their endings, which is fine. But in my ending, Tali died. And then Thane was taken away by the Sweaper storms. But Garrus kept his team alive. Then Grunt got shot. And I discovered after getting to the Normandy that Miranda hadn't made it out alive.

I had closure. Heartbreaking closure for some, awesome heroic closure for others. But I knew what happened to the characters I cared about.

This is not true in ME3. I will avoid spoilers, but after a certain running sequence, I truly believed the two characters I cared about most in the entire franchise (other than one who had died heroically earlier) were dead. And it was my fault.

AWESOME. I freaking LOVED this. It gave my Shepard motivation to soldier on, take out the Reapers even if he gave his last breath to do it.

And then the confrontation scene. Great, love it. A touching scene between mentor and student. Perfect. Even the unexpected radio call to say things aren't done yet. I thought it was hilarious, even if that's not what you guys were going for. Everything up to this moment is pure gold.

Then there was some utter nonsense. But THAT'S OKAY. I thought it was silly, but fine. I came here to do a job, I've been told now how to do the job, so I go shoot this thing, and it'll be over. Mission accomplished.

Then we get the cutscenes. THIS IS WHERE IT ALL FALLS APART. We don't get closure on the Krogans or Asaris or Salarians or whatever, but fine. It would be a better game with that closure, but that's okay. We've spent the entire game dictating what will happen to these species. We can fill in the blanks. Even the loss of a certain technological advance doesn't necessarily bother me.

What DOES bother me most of all is the absolute last shot before the credits. We get ZERO closure on most of our squadmates. These people have been our best friends, maybe even our lovers, for a hundred hours...and I have NO IDEA what happened to most of them at the end. Alive? Dead? Nobody knows! Even worse, remember when I told you two of my favorite characters in the entire franchise died? Well, one of them came back to life! On a completely different planet than where they had died! HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

Do you see the difference between the ending in ME2 and ME3? In ME2, I didn't care that it was a downer ending (losing Grunt). I felt satisfied because I knew I had saved the lives of Mordin and Jack and Garrus. In ME3, I have no such closure. Even the few characters I see who are alive contradict who I earlier saw die.

I apologize for the long rambling, but I wanted to specify that we don't all need a happy ending. I'd be 100% on board with an ending where all of civilization forever got wiped out. Just let me know that's what happened. I'm left with this empty feeling of not knowing who among my crew lived or died.

not that it helps but you are not alone in that case

[Wintermancer]

Actinguy1 wrote...

I will avoid spoilers, but after a certain running sequence, I truly believed the two characters I cared about most in the entire franchise (other than one who had died heroically earlier) were dead. And it was my fault.

AWESOME. I freaking LOVED this. It gave my Shepard motivation to soldier on, take out the Reapers even if he gave his last breath to do it.

And then the confrontation scene. Great, love it. A touching scene between mentor and student. Perfect. Even the unexpected radio call to say things aren't done yet. I thought it was hilarious, even if that's not what you guys were going for. Everything up to this moment is pure gold.

Then there was some utter nonsense. But THAT'S OKAY. I thought it was silly, but fine. I came here to do a job, I've been told now how to do the job, so I go shoot this thing, and it'll be over. Mission accomplished.

Then we get the cutscenes. THIS IS WHERE IT ALL FALLS APART. We don't get closure on the Krogans or Asaris or Salarians or whatever, but fine. It would be a better game with that closure, but that's okay. We've spent the entire game dictating what will happen to these species. We can fill in the blanks. Even the loss of a certain technological advance doesn't necessarily bother me.

What DOES bother me most of all is the absolute last shot before the credits. We get ZERO closure on most of our squadmates. These people have been our best friends, maybe even our lovers, for a hundred hours...and I have NO IDEA what happened to most of them at the end. Alive? Dead? Nobody knows! Even worse, remember when I told you two of my favorite characters in the entire franchise died? Well, one of them came back to life! On a completely different planet than where they had died! HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

This. Also, I agree about ME2, though I made it out with more squadmates than you! I didn't have a perfect ending though; I lost Jack. But, it was so fulfilling that I had zero inclination to replay just to make it perfect. I thoroughly wanted to enter ME3 and carry Jack's loss with me into the events. This was a particularly brilliant stroke of game design. I wish the ending of ME3 had lived up to it.