1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Deathnoise]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

I can. It's called "common sense"

[apoc_reg]

I completely understand Stanley's point that an internet forum represents only a fraction of their player base, and usually people seek them out when something gets their blood boiling.

But clearly the issues such as holstering, gamepads and endings is more than a small percentage of users! And the COD crowd wont stick with you if you suddenly starte a new franchise where as yore hardcore fans would...

[Grizzly2O]

Could you two, by any chance, give your opinions on the whole Indoctrination Theory people have cooked up? A lot of stuff in the main thread for it makes logical sense. I understand that you can't give a definite answer on the matter, but a cryptic response would suffice.

[ebevan91]

You guys never answered my question about the next patch. There are side missions that are bugged and can't be completed. Some either bug out halfway through, and some, you can't find the item on the planet that you're supposed to scan.

[WizenSlinky0]

I'm surprised by the number of developer responses in this thread suddenly. Wasn't really expecting that. Shows how much I know.

And while I recognize it's mostly PR work (as one should expect) it's still dialogue and a lot better than silence. At the very least you're opening yourselves up to let people vent their questions and frustrations even when you can't answer them. Something to be said for that at least from a closure perspective.

Deathnoise wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

I can. It's called "common sense"

Common sense will only get you so far. Sometimes what we assume to be common sense ends up being lost in translation. Let me give you an example. [Disclaimer: This example uses the indoctrination fan theory, that I do not support, as a hypothetical example]. People are finding a lot of "evidence" for this theory that they at least believe concludes something definitively. Let's assume briefly the whole theory is true. The fact there's so much debate about it might have taken the developers by surprise if they thought it was "common sense" that everyone would reach that point.

Our common sense is only as strong as our ability to articulate ideas and thoughts which is, inherently, flawed by the very nature of being human...or to stay relevent to mass effect...organics. FEAR MY SQUISHINESS.

apoc_reg wrote...

I completely understand Stanley's point
that an internet forum represents only a fraction of their player base,
and usually people seek them out when something gets their blood
boiling.

But clearly the issues such as holstering, gamepads and
endings is more than a small percentage of users! And the COD crowd
wont stick with you if you suddenly starte a new franchise where as yore
hardcore fans would...

Really? To be honest, the sample on these forums is small. That's why I don't actively get engaged in anything major here. It's more than likely to have a minimal difference. Now when the BSN actually unites (mostly) behind an issue it becomes a more indicitive sample...even the developers recognize us agree'ing on ANYTHING (even as just a high precentage of users) is probably news worthy. Actually, it is news worthy for better or worse. Everytime we seem to agree on something game journalists pounce on it like hyeena's. 

I have never once heard anyone that I don't know on these forums talk about holstering as an issue that irked them. Like...ever. It's not that they aren't huge fans of the franchise. Hell, most of them got into it before I did! But holstering means like...nothing to them. It didn't even cross their mind as a "oh that's weird". They completely forgot about it because they never bothered with it. It was a very small feature. I'm just saying it's not a "huge issue that effects tons of users" more than likely. It'd be great if people who wanted it could have it though. It'd be great if we could ALL have what we wanted. But we're at least 20 years away from perfection....maybe 22.

The ending issue is...as much as I hate to say it...subjective. I agree the endings were not satisfying, at least for me, and apparently many others. But they did end the series. I'd like to see something change. I really would. And hopefully dialogue like this is the first step to that. If not well...maybe I'll get a kick out of the next game. Who knows, eh? Will probably stay away from trilogies for awhile though

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 15 mars 2012 - 01:08 .

[Petrikles]

I would acknowledge a statement, like, saying that Bioware listens very carefully but wants to wait about two weeks after release before drawing any conclusion.

[BadgerladDK]

JohnEpler wrote...

Nachtritter76 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Once again, please keep this spoiler free. Thanks!

I didn't see it as a spoiler, but I guess it might have been.

Still, Cthulhu will rise when the stars are right. 

Mostly because you were quoting the other guy, who had spoilers.

Also, I oppose the return of the Old Ones and all their priests.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

That is to say... Our dead lord, Ancient Cthulhu, shall rise from his dreams and smite the unbelievers. Sorry dude, you had a good run, but this will not stand :-)

[Foxhound2121]

What's the harm of developing an expansion to clear up what happens to shepard, his crew, and to the ME universe as a whole.

That makes everyone happy, and you make more money.

I don't at all agree with Casey Hudson's idea of Shepard story being unforgettable if it's shrouded in mystery. To me, it's the complete opposite. Any discussion on it will be ignored and avoided because it's mere conjecture. Anyone can guess what happens next to shepard or what really happened, so it makes the ending completely pointless. It also makes it completely pointless to really have a discussion on it.

The only reason people are discussing that now is because they are either interpreting or guessing that Bioware plans to make a expansion, to make a dlc, or to respond to the confused direction that people received while the game was in development with choices being an option in the ending.

As a side not, why the Dues Ex ending, Stanley? I am not saying it's necessarily bad for anyone to copy or mimic and ending of another story. Movies, authors, and video games copy from each other all the time, but I wouldn't expect such a well funded and successful trilogy as Mass Effect to copy another video games ending. I'm just wondering why, and my only guess is the indoctrination theory. 

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 15 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Wintermancer]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu Reaper'lyeh wgah-nagl fhtagn!

[spacefiddle]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either.

Huh?  Yes I did.  As soon as I saw the endings.  Is your point that we didn't forsee the reaction to the endings before we saw the endings...?  I don't get it.  He's asking, since you're in QA and presumably saw the endings... I thought that was pretty clear.

[USAF112]

If by any chance you guys are still going to be monitoring this thread, I would like to give my personal input on the situation. I agree that it is not up to us to decide what happens in the game. I'm not asking for the ending to be changed. To me, the ending itself isn't an issue, and I completely understand what they were going for. I do. What I do have an issue with is the holes and the unexplained things, that I'm sure have already been brought to your attention, regardless I can't discuss them in the no spoilers section anyway haha. I do NOT support changing the ending. I do however, think that an addition, even if it was just a 10-20 minute interactive cinematic, that answered a few questions, would be really freakin' awesome.

[TheRealJayDee]

Beefcake9000 wrote...


ME3 was not the time to try to be clever or daring. It was a time to play it safe, to give people the closure they expected. Maybe that would be a little tired, a little cliched - but you know what - it works. You can't make everyone happy, but you could've so easily made 90% of us happy. Instead, you've made 90% of us very, very dissapointed.

Of course, ME3's ending is netiher clever, nor daring. It's shoddy, lazy and full of problems. It utterly astounds me because the rest of the game is so very solid in its writing.

I have no desire to replay any of the ME games now, becaue I know that my choices are worthless, because I know that in the very end, I will see no resolution to those choices, to my unique story. No matter what Shepard I play as, no matter what choices I make, the end will always be the same. It flys completely in the face of everything the ME series stood for.

[WizenSlinky0]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

What's the harm of developing an expansion to clear up what happens to shepard, his crew, and to the ME universe as a whole.

That makes everyone happy, and you make more money.

I don't at all agree with Casey Hudson's idea of Shepard story being unforgettable if it's shrouded in mystery. To me, it's the complete opposite. Any discussion on it will be ignored and avoided because it's mere conjecture. Anyone can guess what happens next to shepard or what really happened, so it makes the ending completely pointless. It also makes it completely pointless to really have a discussion on it.

The only reason people are discussing that now is because they are either interpreting or guessing that Bioware plans to make a expansion, to make a dlc, or to respond to the confused direction that people received while the game was in development with choices being an option in the ending.

As a side not, why the Dues Ex ending, Stanley? I am not saying it's necessarily bad for anyone to copy or mimic and ending of another story. Movies, authors, and video games copy from each other all the time, but I wouldn't expect such a well funded and successful trilogy as Mass Effect to copy another video games ending. I'm just wondering why, and my only guess is the indoctrination theory. 

I agree mostly. As active as my imagination is I don't really like having to fill in a definitive ending myself. It kinda cheapens the franchise for me since I may as well have just written a short story and read it instead. But that's a personal issue I take with overly open endings. There's open and then there's hull breached. Open isn't bad with proper execution and a limit on the number of open holes. When you've got a hull breach though...well we can't exactly lazarus the endings. Who do I look like, the illusive man? I'm not that well funded.

I'm not entirely sure I like throwing around the word expansion. Those tend to come out 6+ months after a games release and...well I'm not sure I'll care enough anymore to play it at that point. I didn't even play dragon age awakening because it was considered an expansion and came out too long after the original. After that much time it's kinda like...meh. In that case it was because DA had satisfied me and my immersion had dissipated with the ending (in a good way). In this case my immersion would dissipate in a bad way.

But, we'll see what happens. I like mass effect more so it'll probably stick around a bit more especially with multiplayer to distract me.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 15 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[laststarfighter]

I can read between the lines but a BIG thank you to Stanley and John and the other Bioware poeple for taking the time and responding so much.

[Kilshrek]

Just throwing this in here, the people who liked their endings, great, they got an ending they liked.

Some others don't like the ending we liked, and we're asking for one. This ending, happy or not, has absolutely zero bearing on the ending they already achieved and are satisfied with. How does the extra ending affect them in any way, and what gives them to moral authority to call those who want more endings whiners or suchlike? The same applies to those who make the ones who like the endings sound like voodoo zombies. Both sides have a right to their opinion and all that, but so far I can only see one side that actually got what they expected/wanted/something.

[Underlaw]

We will hold the line! Multiple endings??? LIE.

[Tsuga C]

This in-house BioWare studio is causing us trouble and grief that we just don't need. It's clearly time to disband it... Or so the thinking might go in the EA executive board room. Sadly, I'm only half joking. :-/

[Glitch007]

Hi Stan and John

Nice to year from you guys, nice to see you reply back on behalf of BioWare, will your colleagues be addressing these issues the fan base has, or maybe giving answers to questions about the ending, (Why so and so is here? Was it a XYZ? etc...) at Pax East?

Would love to hear BioWare's opinions to some of these questions.

Once again thanks for the replies, (must have taken awhile).

Cheers

Glitch007 (AKA Kyle)

[Kilshrek]

Valve should totally buy up Bioware. That way we may never get the game, but we can be damn sure if it ever comes out, it comes out solid.

[bleachorange]

nikola8 wrote...

I find it amusing that people are so up in arms about the ending. The "plot holes" that people claim are actually "perceived plot holes." I've heard many viable explanations to explain them- in other words, as much as people claim objective failures in the ending, the fact is that the ending fails to live up to their subjective expectations. The end of the Mass Effect trilogy isn't found in the final 10 minutes of Mass Effect 3, it is found throughout the game of Mass Effect 3. If Bioware caves and releases DLC endings, Mass Effect 3 turns into just another conventional game where everything is happily or tragically explained at the end. The fact that they don't explain everything shows respect by Bioware towards the gamers to figure it out on their own. Yes, the ending is unconventional, but it is very memorable. Just because people don't understand it doesn't mean they should hate it (although people tend to hate things they don't understand).

Please Bioware, do not release DLC endings. The endings in the game are perfect as is. Releasing new endings harms the creative integrity of the work. It also sets a dangerous precedent in which gamers expect that, with enough fan support, they can override the story of any game that they don't like a certain part of.

Ofc you have your own opinion, but how does satisfying me hurt you? I think fighting for a satisfying ending is worth my time and effort. If you don't want a possible new ending (if they make one), dont download the dlc. Simple as that, you exercise your consumer power, same as us.

[marstor05]

Kilshrek wrote...

Valve should totally buy up Bioware. That way we may never get the game, but we can be damn sure if it ever comes out, it comes out solid.

yep.

[Willybot]

USAF112 wrote...

If by any chance you guys are still going to be monitoring this thread, I would like to give my personal input on the situation. I agree that it is not up to us to decide what happens in the game. I'm not asking for the ending to be changed. To me, the ending itself isn't an issue, and I completely understand what they were going for. I do. What I do have an issue with is the holes and the unexplained things, that I'm sure have already been brought to your attention, regardless I can't discuss them in the no spoilers section anyway haha. I do NOT support changing the ending. I do however, think that an addition, even if it was just a 10-20 minute interactive cinematic, that answered a few questions, would be really freakin' awesome.

By and large I agree. At this point I don't believe that the 'ending' such as it is, should be changed. Presuming that the 'popular' theory/justification is true, it's disheartening that the actual conclusion to this chapter wasn't included in the retail release. As it is, the story does indeed 'end' in the sense that the gameplay stopped and the credits rolled, but I'm not sure I'd call it fulfilled or satisfied.

I guess what really gets to me is the idea of having to pay $10-$15 on top of the game price to recieve the punchline. Thankfully, the prices on used copies of the game are falling already so it shouldn't be too bad by the time they actually release something.

[bleachorange]

nikola8 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Sorry, Nikola. It must be real epilogue that explains everything, there musn't be squad members teleported to Normandy, etc

I could debate the "teleported" theory quite easily, but we're not supposed to put spoilers in this discussion.  Anyways, why "must" must there be a real epilogue?  You want an epilogue, and many people do, but it isn't a "must."  Bioware exercised amazing creativity in this game and it culminated perfectly in the ending.  What you hate about it is subjective, not something that Bioware "needs" to do.

What you LIKE about it is subjective as well. Don't think we can't play the same word games you are. Just admit that some people don't like the ending, and are willing to pay to get a new one, and some people do like it as it stands. Don't go all IGN on us, here.

[Arppis]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'll say that I loved the ending to Dark Tower and found it immensely satisfying, which I've always understood to be a minority opinion. So, you know.

Maybe the people who were developing the game should have done the same as in the last book of Dark Tower, before the real ending:  "Afterword" which warns players to close the game at this point,
consider the story finished with a happy ending, and not venture further with Shepard?

[titoarc]

First of all sorry for my english :

I really enjoy the game , i would like it to last a little longer , but im ok with that . But when i saw the ending ... well .. i just feal really bad , like if the entire ME universe died , i go to my bed after see the 3 endings 4 a.m , and start having a depresing night .

I can always think i dont see that ending and im still running to the beam