1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Tazzmission]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Unbelievable - what an arrogant attitude...but at least we know what Bioware thiks of its fans now...

ndas are in place why is that hard to understand?

that dosent mean they dont care it means they legaly cant talk about anything until a certain date

quit with the same fear mongoring like if you work at the place

[Nykara]

Anyone think that a lot of people just don't want it to really be over yet? I know I don't :| I love Mass Effect and my Shepard. Seeing the end. Any end was always going to be bittersweet.

[DigitalMaster37]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

.
No they show that a majority of BSN active user does not like them. Other people doesn't have problem with it as seen in many other site. If by majority you call 9000-15000 vote on a million selling game. Yeah sure whatever you want to call majority. 

Man it is pretty clear that it is a disproportionate amount of people who dislike it to those that like it. If anything the BSN is a great focus group for the larger fan base. I'd bet you a cool $million I believe it that much. I'd go so far to say over 90% fanbase wide did not like the ending(s).

All told, I love BioWare and I have full faith in them to do what is needed to set things right (whatever that means)

[Idiotking]

Tazzmission wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

reread what he stated.

he stated everyone ( that being devs) do listen to feedback

I know what he said.  I'm just worried that they might only listen to the good feedback.  It's a natural human tendency to turn to those who support us and shut out those who don't.  I just want them to keep a completely open mind about the thing.

[SilentWolfie]

Mr Woo,

I think first and foremost the fans are mostly angry over the lack of choices at the ending as well as the similarity of it. It is a deus ex machina with hardly any foreshadowing and basically a strange thing to see why the catalyst is a child (I do not recall any technology that can read minds). The explanations to the Reapers' motives appear contrived, and the way how normandy suddenly picks up crew members is completely weird.

Also I skipped most of the side quests and the ending for me, are missing a lot of crew members and are just completely unexplained as to what happened to them. I was supposed to have brought EDI with me, and I assumed the beam caught her, but hey why is Joker hugging her at the ending of synthesis?

It is illogical and for the most part I have thought the ending to be completely inane. I do think that gamefront has it summed up pretty well.

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/1/

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 15 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Silfren]

G3rman wrote...

They can act like they care, but it doesn't mean they will do anything about it.

Just because BW takes feedback doesn't mean they apply it.

But we don't have grounds yet to assume that they won't.  It isn't as though they can go back
in time and fix all the problems with DA2. 

This whole "they can act like they care but it doesn't mean they mean it" is premature. 

Just because they CAN lie about caring, and just because they CAN refuse to apply feedback
doesn't mean we should just assume this is automatically going to be the case.  Which is what
you're doing here.  Let's wait until DA3 comes out before we conclude that they're just blowing
smoke.  They've got a mountain of reasons to follow through on their promise to address
gamer feedback, all of it to do with the bottom-line, and that isn't something they're just going
to ignore.

[Stanley Woo]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Leaks really don't matter and can't be stopped anyway.

NDA's are serious and you can sue people who breach them

But yes from the community, randomly, see what they think, then task that with the current QA team and see what the results are. Always change the QA so you don't develop bias's.

And if those members they pick from this community do not agree with you on a future product and actually give feedback that is detrimental to your stance on top of the fact they will inevitably leak every single peice of information about the product regardless of NDA's as they alays seem to do these days and if they get sued everyone will cry foul again too then what? Take an example I disliked DA2, maybe you disliked DA2, we might have been happy based on that to think have same goals in every single title which is not the case and would you cry foul then or bias if at that time my stance or yours is different to a following title? I do not think this route would work.

A random sampling from community members that provide good detail and content in the forum or in the community.

It would provide a good basis and be much better than what we're getting now.

No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

[SalsaDMA]

aLucidMind wrote...

Correction,

90%, not 99%. 42,000 people did not like the ending.
7% think it is okay with the exception of the Normandy
2% at less than 1,000 think it is good.

That sampling size is bigger than what newspapers in my country usually use to gauge political tendencies. How can people ignore such a statistical anomaly compared to what their "market research" appearantly led them to believe?

Was that research the same thing that led you guys to make DA2?

Are you going to keep using that kind of research which seems to put you in a spot where I wouldn't even personally bother with your products at all in the future?

There's only so many shooters with a tacked on story and rpg-lite elements that the market can sustain before it's saturated, you know, and it seems basicly every 'AAA' title these days are going more or less for exactly that oversaturated market.

[dragonage200200]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Unbelievable - what an arrogant attitude...but at least we know what Bioware thiks of its fans now...

Really? Thats not arrogant at all, Its the truth and its the stance ANY major gaming company or otherwise would take. Please stop trying to bash Bioware, a popular stance nowadays. I didn't start this thread to bash BW I started it to point out that BW is finally responding and to get everyones thoughts.

[bluewolv1970]

Tazzmission wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Unbelievable - what an arrogant attitude...but at least we know what Bioware thiks of its fans now...

ndas are in place why is that hard to understand?

that dosent mean they dont care it means they legaly cant talk about anything until a certain date

quit with the same fear mongoring like if you work at the place

I am entitle to my opinion, which in this case happens to be the overwhelming majorities opinion - SO please do not tell what to say and not say

[DigitalMaster37]

Silfren wrote...

G3rman wrote...

They can act like they care, but it doesn't mean they will do anything about it.

Just because BW takes feedback doesn't mean they apply it.

But we don't have grounds yet to assume that they won't.  It isn't as though they can go back
in time and fix all the problems with DA2. 

This whole "they can act like they care but it doesn't mean they mean it" is premature. 

Just because they CAN lie about caring, and just because they CAN refuse to apply feedback
doesn't mean we should just assume this is automatically going to be the case.  Which is what
you're doing here.  Let's wait until DA3 comes out before we conclude that they're just blowing
smoke.  They've got a mountain of reasons to follow through on their promise to address
gamer feedback, all of it to do with the bottom-line, and that isn't something they're just going
to ignore.

^This. YOu can tell rational people from irrational people just by how they talk. Without enough info you cannot make a clear picture of what the situation is so why would people keep throwing BioWare under the bus without giving them a chance to respond to this issue. I'd bet the same people would crumble under the same pressure they are applying. So hard to put the shoe on your own foot eh?

Great reply Silfren.

[cinderburster]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

.
No they show that a majority of BSN active user does not like them. Other people doesn't have problem with it as seen in many other site. If by majority you call 9000-15000 vote on a million selling game. Yeah sure whatever you want to call majority. 

Man it is pretty clear that it is a disproportionate amount of people who dislike it to those that like it. If anything the BSN is a great focus group for the larger fan base. I'd bet you a cool $million I believe it that much. I'd go so far to say over 90% fanbase wide did not like the ending(s).

All told, I love BioWare and I have full faith in them to do what is needed to set things right (whatever that means)

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

[aksoileau]

Nykara wrote...

Anyone think that a lot of people just don't want it to really be over yet? I know I don't :| I love Mass Effect and my Shepard. Seeing the end. Any end was always going to be bittersweet.

That ending wasn't bittersweet.  It's borderline nihilism, that no choices matter at all, and its all just an illusion of choice. If Bioware thinks that's bittersweet, I'd hate to see one of their depressing endings.

We all knew the series was at an end, but we were promised closure.  There is no closure. 

[Vasarkian]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Leaks really don't matter and can't be stopped anyway.

NDA's are serious and you can sue people who breach them

But yes from the community, randomly, see what they think, then task that with the current QA team and see what the results are. Always change the QA so you don't develop bias's.

And if those members they pick from this community do not agree with you on a future product and actually give feedback that is detrimental to your stance on top of the fact they will inevitably leak every single peice of information about the product regardless of NDA's as they alays seem to do these days and if they get sued everyone will cry foul again too then what? Take an example I disliked DA2, maybe you disliked DA2, we might have been happy based on that to think have same goals in every single title which is not the case and would you cry foul then or bias if at that time my stance or yours is different to a following title? I do not think this route would work.

A random sampling from community members that provide good detail and content in the forum or in the community.

It would provide a good basis and be much better than what we're getting now.

No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

Let's look at TOR's beta.

They did a random sampling of people interested in the beta, took the specs of their computers into account and started sending them beta invitations at stages, the ones who found the most bugs or other material were invited back.

TOR was a game of yours, and it is very much how they did it.

That was a good testing idea, it works, and it proves itself.

---

In any case, no offense, but based on the current product we have and the intelligence of a lot of the most active forum posters, the situation seems to point out that it would have been an INFINITELY better choice to gauge from them.

---

Mr Woo, 

I think first and foremost the fans are mostly angry over the lack of choices at the ending as well as the similarity of it. It is a deus ex machina with hardly any foreshadowing and basically a strange thing to see why the catalyst is a child (I do not recall any technology that can read minds). The explanations to the Reapers' motives appear contrived, and the way how normandy suddenly picks up crew members is completely weird.

Also I skipped most of the side quests and the ending for me, are missing a lot of crew members and are just completely unexplained as to what happened to them. I was supposed to have brought EDI with me, and I assumed the beam caught her, but hey why is Joker hugging her at the ending of synthesis?

It is illogical and for the most part I have thought the ending to be completely inane. I do think that gamefront has it summed up pretty well.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/1/ 

^^^^^ And the fact that the assets don't matter.

Modifié par Vasarkian, 15 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[Tazzmission]

Idiotking wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

reread what he stated.

he stated everyone ( that being devs) do listen to feedback

I know what he said.  I'm just worried that they might only listen to the good feedback.  It's a natural human tendency to turn to those who support us and shut out those who don't.  I just want them to keep a completely open mind about the thing.

your asking for the impossible because no developer can cater to every gaming genre in one franchise

it would be like saying make a film that appeals to everyone ages 10 to 60 

i mean hey if bioware does it more power to them and that would be a huge accomplishment but in reality its easier said than done

Modifié par Tazzmission, 15 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[shepskisaac]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

True, but I'm having hard time believing the part with teleporting squadmates & Normandy's inexplicable actions went unnoticed by anyone in the studio, especially after huge KOTOR 2 drama with key content required to understand the course of events missing from the endings (of course it wasn't developed by Bioware, but it was a core western RPG and a sequel to Bioware's game that I'm sure great majority of the studio knows very well)

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 mars 2012 - 01:18 .

[SilentWolfie]

Surely one or two writers would have seen this coming...

[bluewolv1970]

aksoileau wrote...

Nykara wrote...

Anyone think that a lot of people just don't want it to really be over yet? I know I don't :| I love Mass Effect and my Shepard. Seeing the end. Any end was always going to be bittersweet.

That ending wasn't bittersweet.  It's borderline nihilism, that no choices matter at all, and its all just an illusion of choice. If Bioware thinks that's bittersweet, I'd hate to see one of their depressing endings.

We all knew the series was at an end, but we were promised closure.  There is no closure. 

Thank you

[Stanley Woo]

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

[Vasarkian]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Don't forget that this same community is the one that made BioWare what it is today.

[Luiginius]

I guess it would help to underline the feeling I've gotten from reading all the posts since sunday when i completed the game. The story in my mind is pure gold up till that one point. Game really hits some high notes along the ride, Oscar worthy storytelling, on multiple occasions and then when it no longer feels true to what you feel is ME the joy turns to sadness.

No one would cause this much noise if they didn't care.

[bluewolv1970]

aLucidMind wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Unbelievable - what an arrogant attitude...but at least we know what Bioware thiks of its fans now...

That isn't arrogance. They do not have to respond to you if they do not want to or feel that what they have to say at the moment is not worth saying.

It is not arrogant to say that they do not have to agree with you and it also is not arrogant to say that they will not develop the game to the specifications of, say, one person as opposed to the majority of their fanbase.

and yet that statemeny was with reagrds to an issue that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of gamers has an issue with, so are they catering to - 

[Syrellaris]

aksoileau wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?  You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

It did nothing to the fanbase but anger a few people. So what? Every game will anger some people this one is no different. the endings are fine.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

.
No they show that a majority of BSN active user does not like them. Other people doesn't have problem with it as seen in many other site. If by majority you call 9000-15000 vote on a million selling game. Yeah sure whatever you want to call majority. 

40,000 people is a freaking good sample size. Not to mention it is coming from random players on a site dedicated to their games.