1109 réponses à ce sujet

[bluewolv1970]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

yes 40,000 people is a small sample size - please

[cipher86]

Stanley Woo wrote...
No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

Right now, having "writer for Mass Effect 3" on your resume isn't much better.  I'd take what you can get at this point.

Modifié par cipher86, 15 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Syrellaris]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

[ratzerman]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Oftentimes, people will act like they speak for "the majority" or "a majority" or, as seen in this thread, "90% of the fanbase" or "95% of players." It is occasionally difficult to switch between talking to one person and talking to everyone.

The difference this time is those percentages might be at least somewhat accurate, if the polls here and on G4TV are taken into account.

[TheBandit554]

Broskys, I'm excited for all the new content that will come out! At least, I hope, RIGHT STAN the MAN? Nah, I just think how silly it is that people complain about this ending but not any other Bioware ending, seriously look at:

ME: Same ending with a little variation depending on character choice
ME2: Same ending with a little variation due to character choice (live or die)
DAO: Same endings (live or die) with variation due to character choice
DA2:Well, I think I don't need to explain that one XD
ME3: SAME ENDINGS WITH VARIATION DUE TO CHARACTER CHOICE

But now see? It's always been that way, there's always been limited end choices with little variation to said ending. I get people want to see some closure, what happened to my crew? WTF, why destroy the relays? What about the love of my digital life? Maybe some of you even would just like some clarification or a text epilogue like in DAO.

Well, if it means that much to you, fill in the blanks, think, MAKE A CHOICE. Isn't that what you have been complaining about not being able to do? Oh, the irony.... If you want an ending, make one, but personally I love the ending of which I was given because I know that I'll have so much more to explore in DLC and future games. In other news, WHO"S SIKED FOR DA3?

[DigitalMaster37]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

I can understand if the people on BSN werent diverse, but it just seems hard to believe that as many people that use BSN are from a similar sample group per se. You would be privaleged to more info internally than I am obviously so of course you know what tools you all use better than me. I just feel that the overwhelming response from this community is a good microcosm of the entire fanbase. You have your casuals, MP hardcore group, story and lore buffs, and then the shooter crowd. I'd say its pretty diverse here. But hey, maybe I am wrong. 

[SalsaDMA]

Vasarkian wrote...

Let's look at TOR's beta.

They did a random sampling of people interested in the beta, took the specs of their computers into account and started sending them beta invitations at stages, the ones who found the most bugs or other material were invited back.

TOR was a game of yours, and it is very much how they did it.

That was a good testing idea, it works, and it proves itself.

Not much good it did them, though. ToR was jammed with bugs at release some of them gamebreaking too, and Whenever I tried researching one of the bugs I encoutnered, it turned out it was one they had gotten reports about already during beta, even the gambreaking ones.

Having a process doesn't do much good if it's not actually used for its purpose.

[Kuriiiiiii]

You know, I'm quite in-different to the endings. I think back to before the final battle while I talked to everyone, in person and on the hologram. I think back to everyone that's died along the way. Then the ending came, I didn't know what to think really. I didn't really understand it. Why was joker running? Where did the Harbinger scene go? Why didn't we get to talk with any other reaper aside from the one on rannoch. There's a lot of un-answred questions. I think Bioware should adress them with DLC, Free or paid. While I can in no way "demand" a response to anything that I've said, I would suggest that Bioware takes into account the currenty Charity money being raised for a better ending and honor this. It's rare gamers come together in a community for a cause, no matter what it is.

[Vasarkian]

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

You have no cause to state it is only the MINORITY.

[OriginalTibs]

aLucidMind wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

We always listen and consider what our community has to say. We have been listening the entire time. That does NOT mean, however, that we are obligated to respond, to agree with you, or to develop the game to please you.

We have a lot of people giving us feedback, and due to the diverse nature of our fanbase and community, there are a lot of different opinions and suggestions floating around, and some of it will be contradictory. I encourage all those giving us feedback to consider that the game has only been out a short time and that it does take time to consider all the feedback coming at us. Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support (and criticism).

That is why, while the ending pissed me off a bit, I feel it is a bit pointless to bash BioWare for not responding to every post. I know that what Casey Hudson said was likely just him trying to sell the game. Just because he is trying to sell the game does not mean that there aren't teams working simultaneously to work on patches and DLC. I still have faith that BioWare will make sure the ending winds up fitting with ME1/ME2, especially with what Sovereign was saying in ME1. But the ending has made me very warry about trusting ME3 DLC due to how much of a backhand the ending felt to both myself and the entire story from the beginning of ME1 until the final scenes before the ending of ME3. It came completely out of nowhere in a bad way.

Sure it is. Pointless.
 
Pointless: 95% of the game was pure Bioware at her best. But tick people off on something they care about, and stuff will happen. Bioware has another high dollar title out just now counting on subscriptions. EA has many dollars on the line on other titles. People do tend to associate like to like and dislike to dislike.

Pointless: If ME3 sold like I suspect it did, and all due to popular enthusiasm for the franchise, yet if the bulk of those people react this viscerally when they reach the end, what do you suppose might be the consequences?

Some other development houses are likely not at all displeased I feel sure. Maybe enough to get some hack to call us stupid and fan the flames a bit. 

Modifié par OriginalTibs, 15 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Leaks really don't matter and can't be stopped anyway.

NDA's are serious and you can sue people who breach them

But yes from the community, randomly, see what they think, then task that with the current QA team and see what the results are. Always change the QA so you don't develop bias's.

And if those members they pick from this community do not agree with you on a future product and actually give feedback that is detrimental to your stance on top of the fact they will inevitably leak every single peice of information about the product regardless of NDA's as they alays seem to do these days and if they get sued everyone will cry foul again too then what? Take an example I disliked DA2, maybe you disliked DA2, we might have been happy based on that to think have same goals in every single title which is not the case and would you cry foul then or bias if at that time my stance or yours is different to a following title? I do not think this route would work.

A random sampling from community members that provide good detail and content in the forum or in the community.

It would provide a good basis and be much better than what we're getting now.

No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

I agree.

What I think he/she also not taking into account is lets say they are picked randomly and just so happen to select people who have a different taste or desire in the next game such as myself as example that is one flaw. The second flaw is the people that articulate and are able to express themselves and their ideas in the best way will always take precedent over sheer numbers of people who give feedback but go seriously off track in what they want compared to the developer; or give such feedback in a poor manner.

A group selected to give NDA level feedback is size specific and out of those number do not matter as much as quality of the feedback itself both in ideas and how it matches the vision for the title set originally in mind of the developer.

[OdanUrr]

Someone's minority is always someone else's majority. *shrugs*

[SilentWolfie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

I will assume at least half of the people who bought ME3 will disagree with the ending.

[hurricaneez2]

The mistake Bioware made was spending the last couple years bragging about choices effecting the outcome and how this series was gonna be like nothing ever seen. There are numerous videos of Bioware employees saying stuff like this all over this board.

The reality is we got one ending (different colors do not constitute different endings...sorry) no matter what we did100+ hours of play. So, like it or not, Bioware brought this on themselves.

[Vasarkian]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Let's look at TOR's beta.

They did a random sampling of people interested in the beta, took the specs of their computers into account and started sending them beta invitations at stages, the ones who found the most bugs or other material were invited back.

TOR was a game of yours, and it is very much how they did it.

That was a good testing idea, it works, and it proves itself.

Not much good it did them, though. ToR was jammed with bugs at release some of them gamebreaking too, and Whenever I tried researching one of the bugs I encoutnered, it turned out it was one they had gotten reports about already during beta, even the gambreaking ones.

Having a process doesn't do much good if it's not actually used for its purpose.

True, but at least they had a process, otherwise if this game had those same bugs and issues pointed out and also decided to ignore them or ignore the series-destroying options or choices or actions within the game, then it would mean people like Woo and the other moderators were also just in damage control, and when QA is used as damage control you know something is up.

I may never buy a game as opposed to renting it from BioWare again because of these most recent releases but that doesn't mean I don't hope I can trust someone in the company.

[bluewolv1970]

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

you might want to look up what minority means - 90% of 42,000 did no tlike the endings and 7% did not like on aspect of the endings - so 3% of 42,00 people liked the endings...

[aksoileau]

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

Look I'm not going to argue with you, but how can you convince yourself that the fate of the Normandy makes perfect sense?  Seriously...

[Mr Indivisible]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

This is why we will likely see nothing done. I'm not saying its impossible, but I am saying, like DA2, it will likely just be duck down and wait for it to blow over. 

I will be suprised if Bioware makes a positive PR move, likely they will do nothing, or charge for a DLC pack to get the complete ending. Possibly this was planned all along to combat the evils of used gaming that EA and Activision have been moaning about for the last two years.

Out of my small sampling of buddies, being close to thirty, that played this game. No one liked the ending, the best was 'meh, it was ok' from one of them. About half are taking their copies back and trading them in, and the rest play multiplayer, and will likely be done with it by this weekend. None of them have forum accounts.

Does it say much, no more then the polls.

[kbct]

Syrellaris wrote...

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

BioWare is gonna change the ending.

[cipher86]

TheBandit554 wrote...
ME: Same ending with a little variation depending on character choice
ME2: Same ending with a little variation due to character choice (live or die)
DAO: Same endings (live or die) with variation due to character choice
DA2:Well, I think I don't need to explain that one XD
ME3: SAME ENDINGS WITH VARIATION DUE TO CHARACTER CHOICE

It's more the plot holes that bother me, no writer who knew the Mass Effect trilogy would've come up with that and noone looked at the game before it went for cert who gave a damn would've ignored it.

That's the issue.  I don't care if they're listening to our feedback, it shouldn't have come to this, and it wouldn't have if they spent some time researching for their own product.

[cinderburster]

Luiginius wrote...

I guess it would help to underline the feeling I've gotten from reading all the posts since sunday when i completed the game. The story in my mind is pure gold up till that one point. Game really hits some high notes along the ride, Oscar worthy storytelling, on multiple occasions and then when it no longer feels true to what you feel is ME the joy turns to sadness.

No one would cause this much noise if they didn't care.

This.  There were parts that very nearly made me cry.  I haven't teared up over a fictional character since I read A Game of Thrones.

There was some STELLAR writing, the story was solid.  Right up until the end.

I do believe that the theory going around is the most likely explanation.  It fills the holes.  Until BioWare can state whether or not this is true, I'm not getting too much in a twist about it.

[Farbautisonn]

Stanley Woo wrote...
No, it really would not. Commenting on message boards is not a job application. Sorry.

-Well. In either case, someone dropped the ball. Because some of us have been following you for 10 years plus and you havent really started making these kinds of blunders or... features... if you so prefer untill a couple of years ago.

Your target group / testers didnt do well predicting the communitys reaction to DA2.

Your target group / testers didnt do well predicting the communitys reaction to ME3.

I dont know if you outsourced parts of your QA / testing or what happened, but something did happen.  I cannot imagine that noone found any problems with the endings or found no sinificant plotholes before release. Sorry.

[jimbo32]

Stanley Woo wrote...

aksoileau wrote...

Stan the man, you're in QA are you not?

Yes, I am in QA and have been for 11 years.

You didn't forsee what the endings would do to the fanbase?  I can understand a controversial ending, but not one that is blatantly so full of holes.  I won't list them, they are there to read.

You didn't foresee it, either. But Stan, i hear you say, i'm not a psychic. I can't predict the future! And that's when I coyly wink at you and walk off into the sunset.

Seriously, though, if you think there is some magic formula that allows prodcut creators to see the future and gauge consumer response, then I'd like to get my hands on it because that's a billion dollar bit of wizardry right there!

No one can predict the future.

The difference between us and the team at BioWare is that we weren't privvy to how the ending plays out until we actually experienced it, wheras I assume most BioWare employees at least had a general idea of the details before the game launched. So the crystal ball analogy doesn't really apply.

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone at BioWare - whether a writer, producer or QA - , at some point, didn't say "No offense guys, but this ending is completely lame and makes very little sense.".

[Sentr0]

i think they are still in denial :\\