1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Lionheartwolf]

they dont really need to do anything to keep the consumers happy just like the consumers dont have to buy their next game.

people are allowed to have an opinion about how much they dont like the ending but the minute they buy mass effect 4 i lost all respect for them. thats why im curious about how well DA3 will do when that finally comes around because im pretty confident the people who hated 2 will still be picking it up launch day.

[Darth Malignus]

Tietj wrote...

It's not really an "all or nothing" attitude in this case though. If the 1% of the game that was awful were somewhere in the middle, it would be completely different. It's the fact that its the very last part of a trilogy that really makes people unhappy

How much replay value is left, really? Not just in ME3, but 1+2 as well?

[Syrellaris]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

the game sold almost 2 million times. Taking into account that is
perhaps around 1.8 million unique players, the 40K is nothing but a
minority.

You know most statiscians use a sample size of about 1-4k , right? 

you know I call research projects done with only 1-4k people a massive joke right? They show absolutely nothing and are considered a money waste of a project.

I apply the same to these so called community polls.

[Genshie]

dragonage200200 wrote...

TheBandit554 wrote...

 WHO"S SIKED FOR DA3?

I lol'ed. And its because I am one of the few people on this board who are.

Hey if they can have that much of a leap in terms of story and graphics like they did with ME2 to ME3 (not counting the endings, I actually liked mine and felt like it is what my Shepard wanted) I would be thrilled. Still wish though they kept with the CC of DAO though. (race, background, and such instead of another character like Shepard via Hawke)

[Vasarkian]

Syrellaris wrote...

Vasarkian wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

No offense, but when you refer to "popular accounts", please understand that those who look into these things don't actually believe any of the "popular" review sites because they've all had skeletons in the closet about being paid off for reviews or have been proven to review things inaccurately.

I don't see any all or nothing or us vs them, but you don't seem very understanding or agreeable.

The only one that did that was IGN and for some reason the internet gaming community went as far as labeling it on every major review magazine, website or otherwise associated with it.

It was blown out of proportion sadly. However, Word of Mouth is still the best advertisement a game can have and thus word of mouth review by people that played it and you know are in most cases better.

Gamespot did (Fired a guy that didn't rate something high enough), IGN recently and not the first time, Kohaku had a huge scare, Warner Bro's was accused of major payouts to those rating. There are so many cases it is staggering.

Also don't insult polls.

---

Lionheartwolf wrote...

they dont really need to do anything to keep the consumers happy just like the consumers dont have to buy their next game.

people are allowed to have an opinion about how much they dont like the ending but the minute they buy mass effect 4 i lost all respect for them. thats why im curious about how well DA3 will do when that finally comes around because im pretty confident the people who hated 2 will still be picking it up launch day.

Promise you I won't, maybe I'll rent it or borrow it a few months after it comes out.

Modifié par Vasarkian, 15 mars 2012 - 01:36 .

[SalsaDMA]

jimbo32 wrote...

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone at BioWare - whether a writer, producer or QA - , at some point, didn't say "No offense guys, but this ending is completely lame and makes very little sense.".

Depends, really...

It's not unheard of in big companies that instead of raising criticism people tend to just 'go with the flow'. While it 'secures' people in the fact that nobody then gets to be 'that guy that always moans about everything' it also makes quality of the actual products ultimately suffer.

It's more widespread than not, really, that people don't want to be the one in the company that tells the others their work isn't up to par. It's an important reason why you need testing/assurance control that aren't 'in' with the ones that made the stuff being tested on. So as to actually get an honest opinion.

[gangly369]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

.
No they show that a majority of BSN active user does not like them. Other people doesn't have problem with it as seen in many other site. If by majority you call 9000-15000 vote on a million selling game. Yeah sure whatever you want to call majority. 

40,000 people is a freaking good sample size. Not to mention it is coming from random players on a site dedicated to their games.

Taking a minor in sociology, I have a bit of an issue with this type of 'polling. At least I do when people take it and wave it around as 'proof.'' We talk extensively about how to do such things properly in my classes, and doing up a quick 2 question poll on the internet is certainly not the proper way to do it (if you want an accurate summarization of what people are mad about, why they are mad, how they wanted it, etc.). It takes alot more time and effort to get an accurate accounting of what people feel about these sort of issues.

I won't, however, argue that it doesn't show alot of people are mad. Just don't say stuff like the majority of people are saying blah blah blah off such poorly constructed polls in a concentrated area such as this.
 

[infalible]

Syrellaris wrote...

The only one that did that was IGN and for some reason the internet gaming community went as far as labeling it on every major review magazine, website or otherwise associated with it.

It was blown out of proportion sadly. However, Word of Mouth is still the best advertisement a game can have and thus word of mouth review by people that played it and you know are in most cases better.

The closest example of the average word of mouth review can be indicated online through microblogs and aggregate sites. In pretty much all instances of "word of mouth" for Mass Effect 3, people are quick to point out how utterly attrocious the ending is. That is the prevalent "word of mouth" review, including from people I know irl that have played the game.

In fact most of the people I know who played the game don't like a lot of it before the ending either, so perhaps I have a horridly biased group of friends and acquaintences.

[Dragoonlordz]

hurricaneez2 wrote...

The mistake Bioware made was spending the last couple years bragging about choices effecting the outcome and how this series was gonna be like nothing ever seen. There are numerous videos of Bioware employees saying stuff like this all over this board.

The reality is we got one ending (different colors do not constitute different endings...sorry) no matter what we did100+ hours of play. So, like it or not, Bioware brought this on themselves.

The biggest mistake really is advertising the fact of interacting with the forum members instead of creating a forum for fans to talk about their games of which they can take ideas from but not have to moderate in person of which they could be spending the time creating more content for the games instead of babysitting (some not all) people here. There is a section of people here who seem to appear to believe that they have a right to interact on a personal level with the developers and rake them over the coals personally over their creative direction. Those people do not understand the concept of privilege to speak to developers instead of being just fan commentary only forum, ones who make the very games they like (or hate sometimes).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[Genshie]

Darth Malignus wrote...

Tietj wrote...

It's not really an "all or nothing" attitude in this case though. If the 1% of the game that was awful were somewhere in the middle, it would be completely different. It's the fact that its the very last part of a trilogy that really makes people unhappy

How much replay value is left, really? Not just in ME3, but 1+2 as well?

You be surprised. Alot of people here who say they would never touch or finish ME3 ever again have also said in the same rant that they would still play 1&2 and just make up an ending.

[durasteel]

Stanley Woo wrote...

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

There is a lot of truth right there.

The end sucked, but the game was amazing. In fact, the only reasaon that I care that the end sucked is because the game was amazing.

Modifié par durasteel, 15 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

And regardless of whether or not 90% of the game was decent(the kid was jarring personally and interrupted the experience too often to enjoy the entire play-through), finding out the amazing dish you just ate hid a turd at the bottom ruins the whole meal.

[jijeebo]

Darth Malignus wrote...

Tietj wrote...

It's not really an "all or nothing" attitude in this case though. If the 1% of the game that was awful were somewhere in the middle, it would be completely different. It's the fact that its the very last part of a trilogy that really makes people unhappy

How much replay value is left, really? Not just in ME3, but 1+2 as well?

This... It's unfortunate to have to say it, but the ending sort of taints the entire series because you KNOW where it's going no matter what you do, and the final destination ain't pretty.

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...

40,000 is definitely not a small number ... but it's also a biased sample. Ignoring that is foolish.

I can understand the desire to deny the poll results, and while it doesn't represent the population, it is growing daily and at some point people will have to concede it has predictive power. How many voters does everyone want? 200K? 2M?

[naledgeborn is back]

Problem with the ending isn't the ending of Mass Effect 3 itself, but the ending of the overall series. From my point of view the game as a package is impeccable up until the last 5 minutes and this only judging by the narrative. Maybe it was lackluster and too open ended in my opinion, but that's probably because of the expectations attached to a 5 year wait. If Mass Effect 3 had been the first game in the series I had ever played it would probably be my favorite game of all time. It sure had the production value of it. Sadly it wasn't and I felt short changed by the 'standalone' ending. Cliffhanger endings are terrible, especially when it's at the end of a trilogy.

How's that for feedback, QA?

[Vasarkian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

hurricaneez2 wrote...

The mistake Bioware made was spending the last couple years bragging about choices effecting the outcome and how this series was gonna be like nothing ever seen. There are numerous videos of Bioware employees saying stuff like this all over this board.

The reality is we got one ending (different colors do not constitute different endings...sorry) no matter what we did100+ hours of play. So, like it or not, Bioware brought this on themselves.

The biggest mistake really is advertising the fact of interacting with the forum members instead of creating a forum for fans to talk about their games of which they can take ideas from but not have to moderate in person of which they could be spending the time creating more content for the games instead of babysitting (some not all) people here. There is a section of people here who seem to appear to believe that they have a right to interact on a personal level with the developers and rake them over the coals personally over their creative direction. Those people do not understand the concept of privilege to speak to developers instead of being just fan commentary only forum, ones who make the very games they like (or hate sometimes).

Oh if a business acted in the arrogant way you suggested, oh it would turn out so badly.

A priviledge to talk to the people I'm PAYING MY MONEY to? Hah.

Modifié par Vasarkian, 15 mars 2012 - 01:38 .

[CerberusSoldier]

You know what Bioware just simply tell us Are you going to fix the endings or not . enough with the school yard games and be straight up honest with us .

[dragonage200200]

[

jimbo32 wrote...

I find it extremely hard to believe that someone at BioWare - whether a writer, producer or QA - , at some point, didn't say "No offense guys, but this ending is completely lame and makes very little sense.".

If you and your friends do a science project, and 90% of your friends are satisfiyed with the result, are you gonna be the 10% that says "Wow guys, this will get us a C at best"

It is human nature not to be the oddball out.

Modifié par dragonage200200, 15 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[Dragoonlordz]

darkness reborn wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

Well then, the Lead Writer should have done a better job with the endings then.

Care to make your own game and try to sell that instead?

Don't be so aggressive towards people and they will reply in kind and take you more seriously

[kbct]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

You know what Bioware just simply tell us Are you going to fix the endings or not . enough with the school yard games and be straight up honest with us .

Nice.

[hubbardray]

The Razman wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

yes 40,000 people is a small sample size - please

I've never even seen that poll. Most likely because I like the ending, and am not clamouring to find ways of expressing my feelings towards it.

40,000 is definitely not a small number ... but it's also a biased sample. Ignoring that is foolish.

This is an open forum, meant not only for praise but complaints too. But most forums, you would see more people liking something than not. Mostly because people won't bother signing up for a game they hate. In this case, its much less so because of previous games and our expectations for sequals, but if anything I would still expect a 50/50 split.

At worst, you would expect a subpar ending to have maybe 35% hating it. But the results are a bigger landslide than if you asked a KKK forum if they hate African Americans(purely an example people, no hatin'). That should tell you something.

[Dragoonlordz]

Vasarkian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

hurricaneez2 wrote...

The mistake Bioware made was spending the last couple years bragging about choices effecting the outcome and how this series was gonna be like nothing ever seen. There are numerous videos of Bioware employees saying stuff like this all over this board.

The reality is we got one ending (different colors do not constitute different endings...sorry) no matter what we did100+ hours of play. So, like it or not, Bioware brought this on themselves.

The biggest mistake really is advertising the fact of interacting with the forum members instead of creating a forum for fans to talk about their games of which they can take ideas from but not have to moderate in person of which they could be spending the time creating more content for the games instead of babysitting (some not all) people here. There is a section of people here who seem to appear to believe that they have a right to interact on a personal level with the developers and rake them over the coals personally over their creative direction. Those people do not understand the concept of privilege to speak to developers instead of being just fan commentary only forum, ones who make the very games they like (or hate sometimes).

Oh if a business acted in the arrogant way you suggested, oh it would turn out so badly.

A priviledge to talk to the people I'm PAYING MY MONEY to? Hah.

Many developers do not talk directly on forums to their fanbases in person, you still buy their game or most people do. 

Hell in 80s and 90's most did not talk to their fanbases yet you still bought their game so don't be so silly.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[Darth Malignus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Idiotking wrote...

Mr. Woo, I just ask that you keep in mind the polls that are floating around this site.  They show that it really is a majority of people who do not like the endings.

Thank you, but while they may be an indication of something, they are based on a self-selecting sample of a specific minority of our total player base. Specifically, the ones who feel the strongest about the situation and seek out ways to make their displeasure known. So yes, they are useful in gauging how our community feels, but no, not necessarily as "proof" of how the general public feels.

Thank you! I am glad you are not listening to them. To me the endings make perfect sense and I do not wish to see them changed! Thankfully bioware knows it is only the minority acting up.

I didn't say we weren't listening to them, nor did I imply it. Even if they are "only the minority," they are still part of our fanbase (and our community) and they have still provided feedback.

That's just it. 40.000 voters from a group of, lets say, 5 million buyers is 40x the statistical sample you'd use to describe the mood and trends in any given statistic of that size, and even then, the margin of error is roughly 2-3%. Minority? Not based on the numbers, friend. Even if half of them could be discarded as ragers foaming at the mouth, you'd still have 20.000 left, more than enough to qualify the poll as pretty much accurate.

Your marketing staff could probably explain it a lot better than me. But basically that's how it is.

[Vasarkian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

I've talked to other Mass Effect fans that have chosen NOT to buy 3 because they've heard the ending sucks.  Regardless of where the true majority sits, word-of-mouth can--and in this case, possibly will--cost sales.

that's unfortunate since they'll be missing out on a game that's, by all popular accounts, one of the best super-awesome games EVAR and a great complement to the Mass Effect series and Shepard's story... aside from the ending. I often wish the internet did not have an "all or nothing" "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to evaluating things. It really prevents us from having more discussions like this.

Well then, the Lead Writer should have done a better job with the endings then.

Care to make your own game and try to sell that instead?

Don't be so aggressive towards people and they will reply in kind and take you more seriously

Dude, you're one of the most aggressive people I've seen this week on here, you say things to others but you never do what you're saying or expecting. It seems really hypocritical to play that game and it won't earn you any respect, I advise you to stop for the sake of the community and any respect you may or may not have.