385 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody211282]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Drak41n wrote...

Expecting an ending that meets the quality of the rest of the franchise is hardly a demand for perfection.

It did meet the quality of the rest of the franchise. That's the problem.

See that problem there is in the minds of a lot of people it didn't it fell short in so many ways. If you like the endings then good, just don't say we are wrong for being upset.

Fortunately I'm not saying that.

Ok it just seemed that maybe you were, sorry for over reacting.

[MintyCool]

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

 Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth!    So indeed that WAS a poor analogy. 

Any popular sports team.

Ex: The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams because demand will just replace the protesters until they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

Modifié par MintyCool, 15 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[thealgebraist]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Drak41n wrote...

Expecting an ending that meets the quality of the rest of the franchise is hardly a demand for perfection.

It did meet the quality of the rest of the franchise. That's the problem.

Mass effect 2's ending allowed for a variation to a large extent of who survived, with the added value of those decisions directly impacting the content of the next game. Intellectually and emotionally. Granted it has the advantage of being a set up for a follow. But ME3's endings do not meet the brand standard, because ME2's endings had much much more to offer. In more ways the just the number of dead, which is arbitrarilly the same thing as colour of the beams.

[SnakeStrike8]

Checkmate: Why in the end your opinion simply doesn't matter.
Wise words, OP. Prophetic even.

However, since I don't trust you to have the mental acuity to understand my satire, I'll be explicit: Your opinion doesn't matter either. You enjoyed the endings, did you? You felt this was a suitable conclusion to the epic saga we were all a part of for five years? Well, it was good of you to tell us so!
Now sit back and keep your silence as we voice our own opinions.

[joshko]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Drak41n wrote...

I don't think it did. Whose opinion is more valid?

The one who can defend it better.

How were the other endings of the series significantly better than the quality of the ME3 ending?

Just because someone can't articulate an opinion doesn't mean his opinion is any less valid.

[Nekroso22]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You had more choice in the ME3 ending than you had in either of the other games.

I disagree, but I respect your opinion.

The choices in the other games at the very least carried over and were relevant to the themes introduced in them. The ending to Mass Effect 3 felt rushed and sloppy in my opinion, but I hope we can agree to disagree.

[Shinzarn]

Dean_the_Young wrote...Sarcasm does not besuit you.

Sarcasm?! I am insulted at the notion of being called sarcastic! 

Though why you think an aberation to a pattern of success warrants abdication of a company is beyond me.

Aberration implies this was a first offense or break in an established pattern. DA2 was bad, and SW:TOR was disappointing as well. What warrants my decision to no longer purchase is not the decreased quality, but that they actually thought this was an acceptable ending. However, this is a decision based on immediate facts and what is in front of me. If Bioware comes out and says that they have plans for a better ending, or even an explanation of how the endings work now, I may consider buying more products from them. If nothing else, I choose to withhold purchasing from Bioware because it is one of the few things I can do as a customer to show my dissatisfaction that has an impact, no matter how minute it will be. 

Also, those big, obscure words make points no better than more commonly used vernaculars. That said, I appreciate the passion with which you defend your points. Perhaps my original statement of disagreement could have been better and more politely phrased, but Minty comes off as a holier-than-thou bully who intends to browbeat us into accepting his/her goals. Open dialogue with him/her seems untenable, but I will accept and relish the chance to debate the points with you, as you seem both reasonable and polite. Busy too, judging by the number of responses you are making here. 

[Marixus99.9]

Guaranteed asset? I didn't preorder ME3 until a week before release. After DA2 I felt Bioware was heading into a direction I didn't want so I stopped caring and found new fun Fallout: New Vegas. Fallout took soo much of my time like Dragon age origins did. I didn't even finish DA2. I decided to give ME3 a try just to wrap the series up and move on, but most of the game exceeded what I expected a Bioware under EA could make .. only to let down again at the very end.

I should used the money to buy Skyrim instead ..

[Ocenale]

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

 Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth!    So indeed that WAS a poor analogy. 

Any popular sports team.

The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams; beccause demand will just replace the protesters till they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

Funny story, the Cubs had to make MAJOR changes to their front office because they couldn't sell out Wrigley.

The Red Sox spend more than they make, they're actually not that valuable.

MAJOR SPORTS TEAMS MAKE CHANGES WHEN THEY SUCK.

Basically the sports analogy ends with a new ending, just like in sports if my team's QB sucked I'd go out of the way to get a good one.

[SandTrout]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Why didn't the Catalyst activate the Citadel Relay in ME1?

That one is easy: because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel.

It applied then, and can still apply now.

Not quite. The protheans sabotaged the Keepers, When sovereign docked with the Citadel, he deactivated the surrounding relays, which cut off the 5th fleet from reinforcing, remember?

Why didn't the Reapers use the Citadel to shut down the Charon Relay and prevent the Crucible from being moved into possition?

The possession of the Reaper IFF can answer that.

That's an assumption, and a weak one because the Quarians and geth also had to use the relay.

[stcalvin13]

"The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation."

No it wasn't.

I teach philosophy.

[Cody211282]

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

 Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth!    So indeed that WAS a poor analogy. 

Any popular sports team.

Ex: The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams beccause demand will just replace the protesters until they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

So that means we should endorse them anyway?

People said there was no reason to boycot Ubisoft over their DRM, and their PC saled dropped around 90% this year so what does that say?

Modifié par Cody211282, 15 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[Dean_the_Young]

thealgebraist wrote...

Rubbish. I didn't rebrand your arguement.

That is exactly what you did. Your own objection to the counterargument simply placed your argument as the original subject, rather than mine (which came first).

I challanged it's premise and said that your comparison didn't deserve the merit because it deliberately ignored a pertinent point. I took your statistical comparison and described why I thought it couldn't be treated as such. Wasn't you comparison statistical? Where did I rebrand it to?

By making an argument of composition an argument of impact.

If something is originally an argument of composition, addressing it as flawed on the basis of an argument of impact is rebranding the argument.

I never said you were talking about me,'

So since we're agreed that I wasn't talking about you, why bring it up again? I still wasn't talking about you.

In terms of stating explicitly the opposite in regards to effective weight, then why on earth did you attempt to counter my point?

Because you straw-maned my point by mis-representing it in reframing it.

You either believe that a 98% great game cannot be significantly affected by 2% badness, or you don't.

I have never claimed otherwise.

My arguement suggests a reason why I can, you're arguement suggests a reason why it cannot. 

Except that isn't my argument.

[nitefyre410]

stcalvin13 wrote...

"The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation."

No it wasn't.

I teach philosophy.

 

^ well awesome is  awesome rebutal.

[Tony208]

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

 Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth!    So indeed that WAS a poor analogy. 

Any popular sports team.

The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams beccause demand will just replace the protesters until they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

Why would Yankee or Red Sox fans protest? Those teams deliver.

[Dean_the_Young]

SandTrout wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
Why didn't the Catalyst activate the Citadel Relay in ME1?

That one is easy: because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel.

It applied then, and can still apply now.

Not quite. The protheans sabotaged the Keepers, When sovereign docked with the Citadel, he deactivated the surrounding relays, which cut off the 5th fleet from reinforcing, remember?

The Protheans sabotaged the Citadel, which controls the Keepers.

When Sovereign had access to the Citadel, it also had the manual override available to it.

That's an assumption, and a weak one because the Quarians and geth also had to use the relay.

And? The Reaper IFF can be replicated, and it can explain the results.

A plot hole is a plot hole when it can't be explained by pre-existing things. Not when it isn't explained by pre-existing solutions.

[Wowlock]

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

 Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth!    So indeed that WAS a poor analogy. 

Any popular sports team.

The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams beccause demand will just replace the protesters until they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

You have a weird thing with this ''Fix'' term. You think everyone is a weak willed addict or something ?  Meet with more people, they may suprise you with their ability to stand for what they believe in. Sadly ''mainstream'' mostly brainwash people into thinking we are ''pushovers to be exlploited'' . Well lets see how that will turn out if the situation won't be resolved.

And no, any self-respecting person or a fan won't lick the dog food from the publishers. This is an entertainment service. If they don't entertain me , I don't have any ''addiction'' for their products.

[MintyCool]

Ocenale wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth! So indeed that WAS a poor analogy.

Any popular sports team.

The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams; beccause demand will just replace the protesters till they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

Funny story, the Cubs had to make MAJOR changes to their front office because they couldn't sell out Wrigley.

The Red Sox spend more than they make, they're actually not that valuable.

Both statements factually inaccurate, and you speak in sweeping generalities which is bad for debate in general.

Point is, popular sports teams have the ability to sustain regardless what a handful of protesting fans feel. They replace till those fans come crawling back.

I'll be back in a couple after tonights Bulls game if you wish to debate more about your linear ill-fated position.

Modifié par MintyCool, 15 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Nekroso22 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You had more choice in the ME3 ending than you had in either of the other games.

I disagree, but I respect your opinion.

The choices in the other games at the very least carried over and were relevant to the themes introduced in them. The ending to Mass Effect 3 felt rushed and sloppy in my opinion, but I hope we can agree to disagree.

The choice of ME1 and ME2  was completely superficial dialogue change.

ME3's ending tied far more into key-game themes than either of the other two. ME2 was downright hypocritical considering the number of times you seized or re-used unethical technology to get there, though the ME1 'Alliance vs. Council' was closer to ME3's thematic consistency.

[Ocenale]

MintyCool wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Ocenale wrote...

Funny, you use the Chicago Bulls, an NBA team, as your example of why we "don't matter".

The NBA just had a funny issue where over half the league was losing money because the fans didn't like the product.

OUCH! That is the truth! So indeed that WAS a poor analogy.

Any popular sports team.

The Yankee's, Red Sox's, Cubs, Bulls, Red Wing's, etc.

It doesnt matter if people protest these teams; beccause demand will just replace the protesters till they come crawling back needing that sports fix.

Funny story, the Cubs had to make MAJOR changes to their front office because they couldn't sell out Wrigley.

The Red Sox spend more than they make, they're actually not that valuable.

Both statements factually inaccurate and you speak in sweeping generalities which is bad for debate in general.

Point is, popular sports teams have the ability to sustain regardless what a handful of protesting fans feel. They replace till those fans come crawling back.

Wrong, even in sports monopolies, fans protest. The NFL makes blackout rules to try to prevent this,but sitll people don't pay to go to games in Jacksonville, San Diego, and the like. Bad teams don't get coverage.

[Nekroso22]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

A plot hole is a plot hole when it can't be explained by pre-existing things. Not when it isn't explained by pre-existing solutions.

A plot hole is a plot hole when it isn't explained. It doesn't matter if you've touched on a possible solution to a problem earlier in a story, if you don't find a way to tie it in with a new problem in the story it is still unexplained. Anything else is theory.

That's not to deride your proposed theories (many of which you'll find harbored by people asking for a new ending).

[ticklefist]

Thread title misleading. Says "opinion." Correct word is "choices."

[aliengmr1]

Devs for Eve online thought the opinions of their customers didn't matter. As did Netflix. Wasn't long berfore both were really sorry.

Modifié par aliengmr1, 15 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[Malanek]

Nekroso22 wrote...
A plot hole is a plot hole when it isn't explained. It doesn't matter if you've touched on a possible solution to a problem earlier in a story, if you don't find a way to tie it in with a new problem in the story it is still unexplained. Anything else is theory.

You have no idea how weary I am of people who believe this and keep floating the words plot hole around.

[blah64]

Oh dear....I've been read like a book, my entire soul is exposed and open before this psychic God's all seeing eye! Oh wait...no. Nevermind. I think that was a bit of projection.