385 réponses à ce sujet

[Drak41n]

Yahtzee! Do some research on atari in the 80s and what happened there.

[novaseeker]

MintyCool wrote...
1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third
addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

Except that the "best" ending, with the highest EMS requirement, isn't synthesis or coexistence, but destruction.

[aimlessgun]

Staying angry takes work.

On the other hand, simply not buying more products is quite easy.

The comparison to a sports team is laughable.

[zarnk567]

My god this one post has changed my mind about the endings.......oh wait no it hasn't, they still are full of plot-holes..... (if you wanna know what the plot holes are just look up one of 70 or so threads about them)

[ZeroFlames]

You're correct in your analysis of the ending, but I disagree with your portrayal of the fan reaction.

[Ja5ck]

You know how to get your thoughts across to a majority? Don't act like a condescending tool and pretend that you are the ultimate arbiter of reason and imply that you are better than everyone because you're opinion is such a "wakeup-call". In all honesty, I only bothered to read half of your blanket statement before I decided that my time could be better spent smashing my head against my keyboard. Your opinion isn't as original, insightful, and "correct" as you seem to think it is. I don't even know why I even bothered to give this thread a benefit of a doubt, the title alone should have filled me in on what I was in store for. "Checkmate"? Really? Get off your high horse, so tired of people like you.

[demin8891]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kunzite wrote...

And you missed my point. If Bioware wishes to design games for themselves, instead of their customers, then no, in fact, I will not become a customer again. Sorry. Wrong.

Well, this is interesting. Not many people have the honesty to admit that they want a developer to abandon pretenses of artistic independence and simply pander to fan whims.

I'm impressed, honestly.

They are a company that wishes to make a profit. That is how capitalism works. You satisfy your customers and your stockholders. If you want artistic integrity, talk to a street artist or go to small users on deviantART.

[dkear1]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kunzite wrote...

And you missed my point. If Bioware wishes to design games for themselves, instead of their customers, then no, in fact, I will not become a customer again. Sorry. Wrong.

Well, this is interesting. Not many people have the honesty to admit that they want a developer to abandon pretenses of artistic independence and simply pander to fan whims.

I'm impressed, honestly.

They make a product.  Your opinion of what  is art is not fact.  My opinion is that it is trash.  The market will decide which opinion is correct. 

Um.....all companies pander to fan whims or they go bankrupt.

Modifié par dkear1, 15 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[Meltemph]

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third
addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

Just going to comment on this part, because it literally had me scratching my head. If you think this game brought up legitimate philosophical questions on its own, not even comparing it to other movies/books/games, all I can say is, you have not read enough.

The ending to ME3 was actually the opposite of complex and honestly quite shallow. It gave you concepts without actually ever extrapolating those concepts. If gave you choices that, by all intence and purposes, was magic(not by our standards, but ME standards). It intoduced an entity with the equivalency of Q from star trek to remove the need to explain the rationel behind the meaning of the choices and essentially appealed to authority, because this entity is millions of years old.

It explained nothing and only left concepts that barely ever scratched the surface in the series. It was only as deep as it showed and the only way you could draw more from it, is by YOU drawing more from it, cause the game did not supply it. It gave you implications and left you to assume the implications to the point where it makes you take a look at the writers to try and understand the implications, which in turn defeats the purpose of the medium.

Unless this ending was a trap/fake, then the ending was someone trying to get metaphsyical on a very elementry level and tried to disguise it as deep.

[kunzite]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kunzite wrote...

And you missed my point. If Bioware wishes to design games for themselves, instead of their customers, then no, in fact, I will not become a customer again. Sorry. Wrong.

Well, this is interesting. Not many people have the honesty to admit that they want a developer to abandon pretenses of artistic independence and simply pander to fan whims.

I'm impressed, honestly.

If I hire a painter to paint a portrait of me and my family, and I dont like what they do with it, I have every right to ask them to do it over again. If the developer expect fans to shell out money for a product, and then shell out more money for DLC, books, comics, shirts, hoodies, etc....then why the hell shouldnt they appeal to me with the product?

[piemanz]

dkear1 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kunzite wrote...

And you missed my point. If Bioware wishes to design games for themselves, instead of their customers, then no, in fact, I will not become a customer again. Sorry. Wrong.

Well, this is interesting. Not many people have the honesty to admit that they want a developer to abandon pretenses of artistic independence and simply pander to fan whims.

I'm impressed, honestly.

They make a product.  Your opinion of what  is art is not fact.  My opinion is that it is trash.  The market will decide which opinion is correct. 

Um.....all companies pander to fan whims or they go bankrupt.

Awesome, so in 20-30 years when every story starts and ends the same we can all rejoice.

Modifié par piemanz, 15 mars 2012 - 01:46 .

[Grand Champion]

Silent Rage wrote...

So. What color did you pick?

AHAHA this statement alone overules that wall of text I read.

[xeNNN]

deathscythe517 wrote...

You know why we don't take people from your side seriously? It's a little thing called a superiority complex, you think that by making yet another topic you'll somehow bring about some kind of startling revelation when you're just beating a dead horse. Topics not related to the ending get answered quickly, topics involving decrying the horribleness of the ending manage to carry on, but all these 'fact: your movement is stupid' topics get buried into oblivion...

I WONDER WHY?

Maybe if you show the same amount of respect for us as we have shown everyone else instead of pretending to be some kind of higher intelligence when you're really just cheerleading for Bioware, and that's what it comes down to isn't it? You're trying to put down angry customers into just shutting up, why spend money on a PR department when you've got people who'll defend you no matter how nonexistent or paper thin the reasons, they're giving you money and you can treat them as a deniable asset - they aren't speaking for the company but hey you can look the other way for them at least.

Condense your counter-points into a megathread like we have instead of trying to stand out and be the 'voice of reason'. When you're just being cynical, contrary, and overall not half as original as you think you are.

this just this.. my god. sums it all up completely.

[Dean_the_Young]

demin8891 wrote...


They are a company that wishes to make a profit. That is how capitalism works. You satisfy your customers and your stockholders. If you want artistic integrity, talk to a street artist or go to small users on deviantART.

If Henry Ford gave people what they wanted, he would have given them a faster horse.

One of the remarkable things about culture is that products that seek popularity varely rarely achieve it: for the same reason that politicians can't pass themselves for 'regular folks', art that appeals to everyone actually appeals to very few.

Successful artists don't go to the crowd: successfull artists create products that bring the crowd to them.

[Plaim]

Wait a second... This isn't chess. It's Mass Effect! I think you're on the wrong board, Minty.

[CheeseEnchilada]

piemanz wrote...

It has nothing to do with facts. They want happy endings.

Who is 'they'? Anyone who isn't satisfied with the endings? That's generalizing quite a bit, and ignoring most of the arguments that have been made over the past few days. Sad endings, bittersweet endings, downer endings--all are great if they fit the theme of the story and make sense within the setting. This didn't.

[Dean_the_Young]

kunzite wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

kunzite wrote...

And you missed my point. If Bioware wishes to design games for themselves, instead of their customers, then no, in fact, I will not become a customer again. Sorry. Wrong.

Well, this is interesting. Not many people have the honesty to admit that they want a developer to abandon pretenses of artistic independence and simply pander to fan whims.

I'm impressed, honestly.

If I hire a painter to paint a portrait of me and my family, and I dont like what they do with it, I have every right to ask them to do it over again.

Only if the contract says so. If they work by comission, they could be paid regardless.

If the developer expect fans to shell out money for a product, and then shell out more money for DLC, books, comics, shirts, hoodies, etc....then why the hell shouldnt they appeal to me with the product?

They did, by making a product. If you didn't like the product, you can return it for at least a partial refund of value, and are under no obligation to buy those DLC, books, comics, shirts, hoodies, and etc. that don't appeal to you.

It is a completely voluntary arrangement in which they provide an option, and you can choose to accept it. You are not in a relationship in which they will remake it if you don't like it.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

"One of the remarkable things about culture is that products that seek popularity varely rarely achieve it: for the same reason that politicians can't pass themselves for 'regular folks', art that appeals to everyone actually appeals to very few."

This is why pop music is so deep and musically brilliant. And why advertising is worthless, people just accidentally walk into success.

Seriously, the arguments used against "doing things your fans will like" are so out there...

[xeNNN]

Nekroso22 wrote...

I still can't get over the fact that OP thinks Star Wars fans liked midichlorians.

loooooooooooooool. 

[dkear1]

piemanz wrote...
Awesome, so in 20-30 years when every story starts and ends the same we can all rejoice.

ROFL.........if that was the case it would have already happened now wouldn't it have?

No, what it will do is force people to tell GOOD stories or they will be relegated to the stacks of forgetables.   Only brought out to point at a shining expample of a steaming turd.

[Madecologist]

I don't think anyone questioned Biowares skill at making a great game. They don't even question them as writers, people acknowledge and praise the story of Mass Effect 3 up to the dreaded point. Overall ME3 is highly praised untill someone reaches... the end. That is where we question. That is where we doubt, but mostly stand dumbfounded that it even happened considering the rest of the product.

Yes the end is flawed. Anyone who did a lit class in college would see this. Anyone who did any writing class would see this, anyone that enjoys reading a well writen book would see this, anyone that knows what 'good' witing is would see this. There is nothing 'special' about the ME3 endings. They are just as cheap as any cookie cutter Holleywood ending. A less popular one for sure... but for good reason.

People need to stop assuming by liking something that is not 'popular' they are suddenly more cultured, more sophisticated, or more intelligent. You can like and even love these endings, but it doesn't change the fact what they are. Since we are not satisfied by it, we sure as all hell will point out its technical flaws.

I have yet to hear one good explaination for Normandy Fleeing scene. That scene is not a minor scene, nor a minor technical error. That scene alone is a very bad error in professional writing. It serves only one purpose and it being just used for that purpose makes it worst.

I have seen attempts at justifying a lot of things in the ending, and some were well thought out. But that one scene never had a single thing that even came close to being a good explaination. There is a reason why, there is none. The closest people got to is saying it is a vision, a dream of Shepard and didn't actually happen. That is the only explaination that would even justify it, but then that opens another can of worms.

Modifié par Madecologist, 15 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Ryan546]

Dues ex Machina does not equate to a good ending, its using a disgusting and hated literary device to solve an creativity problems, We deserve a good ending

[JeffZero]

 This guy's so amazing.

[kunzite]

It is a completely voluntary arrangement in which they provide an option, and you can choose to accept it. You are not in a relationship in which they will remake it if you don't like it.

Kind of ironic, isnt it? I have a choice here, but at the end of ME3....no choice. At least, not a choice with any discernable outcome.