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Checkmate: Why Your Opinion Simply Doesn't Matter


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#151
Valo_Soren

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MintyCool wrote...

Checkmate: Why in the End Your Opinion Simply Doesn't Matter

Your decisions are tainted by the emotional investments you accumulate, and the more you invest in something the harder it becomes to abandon it.

The Pleasures of Not Knowing:

If you were a consistent member on the Mass Effect forums between the 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd installments, you would be known as a Knowingness Addict.

You are desperate to consume anything relating to this saga. Whether it be books, comics, etc. When a leak occured or a screenshot was released you would swarm like a pack of cockroaches to analyze it.

During this time you would receive opinions, rants, and raves from others. When hundreds of strangers enter our thoughts, a tiny part of our own self assessment is diminished. You are denying yourself the pleasure of the discovery.

After ME3 was released, what did you do once you finished the tale? More than likely, you went back and either watched the alternative endings on YouTube or replayed alternate paths yourself. Again, fueled only by needing to know everything, desperate to know all other choices one could make.

You ended up learning everything about the man behind the curtain, did you feel better? No, it only fueled your impulses for a more potent fix.

You bend unknowingly to your impulses. You replace others experiences with your own. Under the right conditions, you are prone to losing your individuality and becoming absorbed into a mob mentality. You became part of the Mass Effect Hivemind.

Why In The End Your Opinion Doesn't Matter:

In the end, Bioware views you as a guaranteed asset.

View it in the same light as a diehard sports fan that is upset with his team; in protest, he decides to not attend any more games. Does ownership care? No. Why? It's because someone else will fill that void with-in seconds, enjoying the game instead of you. Overtime, your willpower will shatter and you'll end up becoming a fan again the next chance you get.

Bioware is the RPG equivalent to a popular sports team like the Chicago Bulls. When it comes down to it, and everyone is buying the new Bioware AAA blockbuster; your impulses will give way and your brain will be firing  synapses at a constant pace... desperate for that fix.

You will dance with the devil, and Bioware knows it.

You may have noticed the outcry about the ending is already dissipating, why?

It takes work to be angry; you're intellectually incapable of focusing for a long enough period to actually cause change. Most of you are incapable of even reading to this point of this article. The majority of these people are peers/allies apart of your cause.

At the moment, the public views you as the political equivalent to the Occupy Wall street crowd. You are a joke. You come up with ridiculous theories that only spook conspirators' would believe; you introduce props and cheap gags like charities that only smudge up your message. You are simply noise.

In the end all of this is great news because; the last 15 minutes of this tale are actually quite good...

Why The Ending Works:

1. Shepard, war torn and exhausted, leaped into the crucibles energy source sacrificing his life to intertwine existences between synthetics and organics.

A few hours ago, this is how my tale ended after five years of Mass Effect; and I was quite satisfied with the ending.

2. The writing team behind Mass Effect 3 was able to elevate the narrative premise by weaving a philosophical debate about the relationship between organic and synthetic coexistence. The entire story throughout the third
addition is laced with the ideas of life, harmony, and self preservation.

More than ever, the story has morphed into a game about big themes and big ideas.

Just some of the thoughts explored throughout this game...

EDI and free will, Synthetic dominance, Lineage, Genophage, Causality, Geth/quarian conflict, Determinism, Legacy - Miranda's father, Synchronicity and Kaiden, False Theology-Asari Prothean Gods, personal fulfillment, etc.

Compared to the previous installments that may have skimmed over some of these topics, all the philosophical and sociological debates/conflicts in this iteration have the main goal of bolstering the main theme of Mass Effect 3,

The existence of The Creators vs. The Created.

3. Two camps are formed because of this instance. The story the writers wish to tell, and the fans who feel entitled to observe the story they themselves envisioned.

The writers, it seems, realized the message that they wanted people to take from this third installment. This had the team shifting the narrative focus to a more elevated dynamic.

The coexistence of Synthetics vs. Organics.

4. To this end, Mass Effect 3 succeeds in weaving a narrative from beginning to end. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Philosophical themes trounce the Neanderthal-dopamine induced urges people wish to see in this addition. Especially in the end game where this theme becomes the stories main focal point.

Honestly is a cameo appearance from Wrex for the 50th time really going to add anything to the finality of this story? No.

5. Unfortunately I find a Star Wars Syndrome happening with this series. A fan base digesting every bit of corn fructose they can gulp down. Needing everything to be spelled out; desperate to know every last bit of information.

Why must one need to see Tali's face? Why do we need to know a detailed history of the Protheans? How come we need to see the Rachni and Krogan attack the enemy? Isn't the struggle of loss and war already inferred multiple times throughout the story? The focus of the end game is obviously being developed on a much deeper/different theme.

Midichlorians anyone? You do not need to know how exactly the force works...

This desperate need to dig up plot holes and inconsistencies from the hard core is entirely unhealthy for the series and its fans. All stories have inconsistencies, stories you tell to your friends are punched up exaggerations of what really happened. Your Facebook account is not a mirror image of the life you lead, but the life you wish you lived.

You had the chance to say goodbye to the entire main cast in one way or another. Multiple times is it mentioned/inferred that all races are about to battle the Reapers.

Needing to know a detailed resolution of what happens to everyone in the galaxy only dilutes the escapist reality the writers created.

Some things are better left to the imagination. Less is more and allowing the mind to explore possibilities is one of the great strengths of human thought.

6. In the end, it would seem the Bioware writing team effectively succeeded in what they wanted to say in the Mass Effect saga. This is something I can respect. Instead of appeasing to the vocal mob; they finished the story on their own terms.

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis. The Mass Effect team was finally able to find this series a voice. Knowing this, makes me content that I have finished this series in its entirety in the way it was meant to be seen.

And I enjoyed every minute of it.


This, totally, one hundred percent this. Thank you. Took the words right out of my mouth.

#152
dkear1

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

dkear1 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You know what else has made money and gotten accolades?
ME3.


Only time will tell on this one.  Sure it made money out of the gate.  But until the returns and lost sales if they don't fix the game are computed then the jury is still out. 

No, it's actually a fact. ME3 has already gotten significant critical and private acclaim for what it has done right.


Along with critizism.   Besides, does DA2 ring any bells.  Started out the same way.

#153
Bachi1230

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This is how I felt after raeading yoru post OP

Image IPB

OP you're the white peice

Modifié par Bachi1230, 15 mars 2012 - 02:41 .


#154
GuardianAngel470

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

Yet another "art trumps promises made" thread?? That's all that we could come up with?? Playing devil's advocate even if I wildly misinterpreted the promises I would still fault any company that seems this out of touch with their core group of fans. Simply if you don't deliver a satisfying product then this sort of reaction is exactly what you should expect.


And what about a product most people agree was overwhelmingly satisfactory?


You make a valid point, but the OP didn't make the argument that people were overreacting to what amounts to a tiny fraction of the whole, he argued that all grievances are invalid because the ending is perfectly fine. 

Very true. However I am not the OP, nor am I arguing in defense of the OP, so what?


Nothing really. I just thought the line of discussion wasn't in keeping with the core of people's reactions to the OP because the OP didn't mention what you discussed.

I'm pretty much off base, don't mind me.

#155
turian_rage

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While you do make interesting points in your arguement, I think the main reason why the fans are discontent is the lack of variety. They did not have the sense of accomplishment or originality between them, and no matter what choices you made, it seemed as if the ending was all the same and that you had zero effect on the outcome. The ending ignores some of the pre-ordained facts and plot points that the series built up in the past, such as the destruction of the relays meaning the destruction of the coinciding star system, and not only that, but it alienated you from the cast of characters that you have grown to know and love for the past 3 games. No matter what, they go on life without you, and it seemed they were in a hurry to accomplish that. People were pissed because they love Mass Effect.

Modifié par turian_rage, 15 mars 2012 - 02:42 .


#156
Rusty0918

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I don't quite get what you're saying, Bachi1230.

Modifié par Rusty0918, 15 mars 2012 - 02:45 .


#157
Lambchopz

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This type of thing reminds me of arguing with a hipster about music, including the overwhelming hubris and ego that they always seem to have.

#158
dkear1

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Bachi1230 wrote...

This is how I felt after raeading yoru post OP

Image IPB

OP you're the white peice


Priceless!!!!

#159
Thornne

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Checkmate: Why in the End Your Opinion Simply Doesn't Matter

Because it is just your opinion. And you're welcome to it, of course. But your opinion doesn't interest me very much.

Or are you speaking for Bioware / EA? I missed that part of your initial post, if so.

#160
Dean_the_Young

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PKchu wrote...

"In the long term, ME3 is going to be remembered as a great game that got gigged for ending the trilogy in the same way that it had ended every game in the trilogy."

I respectfully disagree, I think ME3 will mostly be remembered for the gut punch at the end and the feelings of betrayal a lot felt.

A lack of pattern recognition isn't betrayal. It's misplaced expectations.

"ME3 is also going to be a case study for the industry of how to do carry-over consequences in-gameplay correctly, design and implementation of morality systems, and the realization that a lot of people will accept great amounts of tragedy in the body of the work itself."

This is true: I don't argue ME and the ME series did a lot of things right up until the end.

Right? The Mass Effect series is remarkable because it was about fixing the things that were wrong with it.

Mass Effect 1 had a horrible bipolar morality system and every story-required Choice was a variation of 'kill someone or spare them,' with only case actually providing a fluff-downside two games later. Mass Effect 2 had no story-relevant consequences, and took a view that a no-import playthrough was a suitable equivalent for a morality-specific carryover game, on top of a horrible tone-based morality system that conditioned players to avoid role-playing. Pile on top of that the number of dropped or missed plot threads, the terribly inconsistent world-building, and an entire game in which the overarching trilogy plot was barely a framing device, and the Mass Effect trilogy is heavily polished by nostalgia and a lack of memory by many.

It's still great, of course, but it's been great despite it's many serious flaws, of which the trilogy ending is just one of.



The point is that I feel you're making out this whole "ending fiasco" to be less of a deal then it really is.

You're an above-average income person with the leisure time and excess income to spend on a luxury product, most of which you were satisfied by, in a world in which over 13% of the people alive live in hunger, 21% are in poverty, and chances are your country is at war.

An imperfect ending is not that big of a deal.

#161
ticklefist

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When you're done trying to crush the internet under the might of your genius would you mind curing AIDS?

#162
Dean_the_Young

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dkear1 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dkear1 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You know what else has made money and gotten accolades?
ME3.


Only time will tell on this one.  Sure it made money out of the gate.  But until the returns and lost sales if they don't fix the game are computed then the jury is still out. 

No, it's actually a fact. ME3 has already gotten significant critical and private acclaim for what it has done right.


Along with critizism.   Besides, does DA2 ring any bells.  Started out the same way.

Criticism doesn't counter accolades, however. Plenty of people criticize Shakespeare, believe it or not, but that doesn't means its strengths aren't real.

The flaws of ME3 have been focused in one area. The strengths have been just about everything else.

#163
Dean_the_Young

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ticklefist wrote...

When you're done trying to crush the internet under the might of your genius would you mind curing AIDS?

Why do you hate cancer-patients?

#164
Drak41n

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No, mass effect wasn't about the side kicks. Mass effect set the stage, introduce major characters and concepts, and establish how humanity fit into the a new and alien galaxy. You're merely using how the gameplay panned out as a way to avoid acknowledging that there was a clear story.

Also, a bad ending doesn't mean the writers suck. A bad ending means those writers wrote a bad ending. It happens. Bad endings are a big deal. Writers know that primacy and recency are the two most essential parts of the story because that when you tell the audience why your here (primacy) and when you deliver your ultimate message (recency). Those have to be well done if you want to effectively communicate your message.

#165
ticklefist

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

When you're done trying to crush the internet under the might of your genius would you mind curing AIDS?

Why do you hate cancer-patients?


In hindsight I kinda wish I'd gone that direction. I hear modern medicine keeps HIV dormant for years.

#166
Dean_the_Young

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turian_rage wrote...

While you do make interesting points in your arguement, I think the main reason why the fans are discontent is the lack of variety. They did not have the sense of accomplishment or originality between them, and no matter what choices you made, it seemed as if the ending was all the same and that you had zero effect on the outcome. The ending ignores some of the pre-ordained facts and plot points that the series built up in the past, such as the destruction of the relays meaning the destruction of the coinciding star system, and not only that, but it alienated you from the cast of characters that you have grown to know and love for the past 3 games. No matter what, they go on life without you, and it seemed they were in a hurry to accomplish that. People were pissed because they love Mass Effect.

Let's consider this by a few pieces, since this is (ironically) a pretty calm listing. I'll ask a few questions as counterpoints (but probably can't reply again, since I'm calling it quits for the night. Work and stuff.)

1) Why shouldn't players feel accomplished in beating the Reapers in the course of their own story, if they don't metagame the alternative choices and consequences?

2) Why shouldn't players look at the super-explicit implied consequence of the Final Choice after the ending for differentiation?

3) Why should choices already made in the game, that have already created affects in the game, alter the final choice scenario that must exist regardless of any combination of choices? (note that this is the scenario, not epilogue slides)

4) Why doesn't Hackett's earlier descriptions of the energy of the Relays being used in the Conduit-effect, plus the big different-type-of-destruction of the context, provide a satisfactory explanation for why not all relay destructions = supernova?

5) How in the world does the ending make you dislike the cast?

6) Why should the cast be utterly dependent on Shepard, and how does stepping out of a ship after a daring survival imply they were in a hurry to get past you?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 15 mars 2012 - 02:59 .


#167
Dean_the_Young

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ticklefist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

When you're done trying to crush the internet under the might of your genius would you mind curing AIDS?

Why do you hate cancer-patients?


In hindsight I kinda wish I'd gone that direction. I hear modern medicine keeps HIV dormant for years.

I'd probably have have turned it towards global hunger at that point, honestly.

#168
Dean_the_Young

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Drak41n wrote...

No, mass effect wasn't about the side kicks. Mass effect set the stage, introduce major characters and concepts, and establish how humanity fit into the a new and alien galaxy. You're merely using how the gameplay panned out as a way to avoid acknowledging that there was a clear story.

When Bioware decided to bring Tali and Garrus back as romance-interests (which was their justification for returning in ME2), and then made the entirety of ME2 about the squad and the Collectors and Reapers a 4-mission side note, they kind of did.

ME3 tried to step away from it, but ME2 really set the series up for failure in a lot of ways, both in terms of character-weight and consequences. I don't blame players for putting so much weight on the characters, all things considered.


Also, a bad ending doesn't mean the writers suck. A bad ending means those writers wrote a bad ending. It happens. Bad endings are a big deal. Writers know that primacy and recency are the two most essential parts of the story because that when you tell the audience why your here (primacy) and when you deliver your ultimate message (recency). Those have to be well done if you want to effectively communicate your message.

This is true.

#169
Ashilana

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MintyCool wrote...

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis.


I love how anyone can rationalize that wiping out all free will in the universe is "cultural synthesis".  

#170
themaltaproject

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turian_rage wrote...

While you do make interesting points in your arguement, I think the main reason why the fans are discontent is the lack of variety. They did not have the sense of accomplishment or originality between them, and no matter what choices you made, it seemed as if the ending was all the same and that you had zero effect on the outcome. The ending ignores some of the pre-ordained facts and plot points that the series built up in the past, such as the destruction of the relays meaning the destruction of the coinciding star system, and not only that, but it alienated you from the cast of characters that you have grown to know and love for the past 3 games. No matter what, they go on life without you, and it seemed they were in a hurry to accomplish that. People were pissed because they love Mass Effect.


Wait! I though it was because people wanted closure.

Wait! I though people were mad because the endings are copied.

Wait! I though it was because the endings werent consistent with the series.

Wait! I thought it was what because they want happy endinds.

"...you are already fighting and contradicting each other..."

#171
iamthedave3

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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Allegory and metaphor.

The Normandy's destruction but survival onto a new world parallels the post-Relay, post-Reaper galaxy: damaged, disconnected and seeming isolated, but alive and in a position to rebuild. The Normandy's inability to fly is analogous to the galaxy's inability to easily connect to eachother without relays, but the verdant garden world represents the new opportunities that exist even so. The emerging of the crew not only symbolizes survival, both of individuals and the galaxy, but the multiple races hints towards both cooperation and a new style of coexistince that will follow the Reapers. The survival of the group, watching the rising sun, is the obvious sign of the new era past the darkness of the Reapers.


So what you're saying is that in the middle of the greatest battle of their time, Joker suddenly proclaimed 'QUICK LADS, WE MUST CREATE A METAPHOR!' and scooped up everyone onto the Normandy so he could fly away from the battle in order TO BE PROFOUND and METAPHORICAL.

This is the laziest kind of symbolism conceivable, and you seem to be intelligent enough to know that. It's shoehorned into a situation when there's no logical reason for it to be there.

#172
thealgebraist

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Here's what I think, in order of importance.

Dean has a masterful grasp of language and semantics, and is.probably unintentionally trolling everyone here. He is also using said quality to win a fight he shouldn't be winning. I suspect, though don't claim to know, that he probably knows this too.

Example?His percentage of the game arguement. It seems to.be completely ignoring that not all parts or experiences of the game have equal weight. Also ignores how memory and idea processing works, which gives (by our very nature) more weight to.the ending of closing of almost anything we learn or yearn for.This skews the whole thing, but that would give the material small percentage a much larger emotional and intellectual clout than he wants you to think. He either missed this and isn't as clever as the game he talks, or he knows this failed to include it when preseting his arguement.

I don't know anything about you man, but I like and respect your board prescence.

Of OP? I personally don't like the endings from a technical, personal, and writinf point o view. Go ahead and tell me I don't get them, it'll matter not - you'll never know for sure. But I hear you like that ;) My problem with the endings pale in comparison with my problem with.what Bioware did. Focus on the following and do.not side track: Explicit statements of what to expect, and why to expect it. They then choose to go against those statements in dramatic and belittling oblivion to what they had done. Every heard the phrase, "As advertised? Go read the banner of the ME3 home page.

Your post was an attempt.to assert your.correctness in a format that encourages response. Withi the context of your post that's quite ironic.

*while post done on phone, forgive random full stops and oddities, thanks**

#173
Dean_the_Young

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Ashilana wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

Mass Effect became a tale about cultural synthesis.


I love how anyone can rationalize that wiping out all free will in the universe is "cultural synthesis".  

...besides that none of the endings actually do that, the two are hardly contradictory.

#174
Almostfaceman

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iamthedave3 wrote...

So what you're saying is that in the middle of the greatest battle of their time, Joker suddenly proclaimed 'QUICK LADS, WE MUST CREATE A METAPHOR!' and scooped up everyone onto the Normandy so he could fly away from the battle in order TO BE PROFOUND and METAPHORICAL.

This is the laziest kind of symbolism conceivable, and you seem to be intelligent enough to know that. It's shoehorned into a situation when there's no logical reason for it to be there.


I actually just giggled thinking about Joker saying that. Of course Joker not being there when the Citadel arms open up and Shep not calling him in (as he's in a habit of doing through the whole series) is ridiculous.

#175
ElectronicPostingInterface

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"A lack of pattern recognition isn't betrayal. It's misplaced expectations."

Who crafted the series? I don't think my expectations are rare or uncommon. Bioware did a poor job of managing expectations.

I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of ME1/2 even though I don't feel like you because it's not really pertient or all that relevant to the other issues.

"You're an above-average income person with the leisure time and excess income to spend on a luxury product, most of which you were satisfied by, in a world in which over 13% of the people alive live in hunger, 21% are in poverty, and chances are your country is at war."

Oh come on. I'm saying it's a bigger deal for Bioware's future than you're letting on, not that it's the most important thing in the world. You're overemphasing the short term success before many finished the ending and underemphasing the very common fan reaction of people who are severely displeased with what the ending did to the series as a whole. Quanity of good parts will not make up for the impact of the ending, it was not satisfying or else there would not be this outcry. The backlash is real.

I also am a below-average income person with leisure time because I can't get a damn job and live in a city with horrible economic conditions. Your assumptions suck. And the details of my personal problems are none of your business. 

"An imperfect ending is not that big of a deal."

You could say this about anything and use it to undermine things like not getting your cable installed, good internet service, what you paid for. It isn't a big deal in terms of like, the issues of my life but it matters to me as something I care about.

Bioware didn't kill my family and leave me in a cave to starve, but they made me unhappy as a customer. It's my perogative to ask for a better ending if I want.

Modifié par PKchu, 15 mars 2012 - 03:08 .