275 réponses à ce sujet

[suusuuu]

If Bioware continues the franchise without addressing an issue most (assumption here, but pretty safe) of their fanbase is very much concerned about, then it probably means I, and many others, simply don't want that product. Not because of some sort of betrayal but because a responsible (and smart) developer would address an issue of this urgency, otherwise not only this means they don't care about the consumers, it also means that their products will get progressively worse because of the lack of respect they have for us.

[Jadebaby]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

I am not telling you to buy anything I am telling you to stop trying to sabotage the franchise and company to get your way.

ESPECIALLY... When they haven't even made a comment. This is all just because people are impatient so they get right down to "business".

I hate the endings... Guess I just have more hope.

[lltoon]

"Don't threaten Bioware because they won't fix the bad ending even though praising them before ME3 got released still gave you a poorly written ending anyway. So the solution is to just praise them some more."

Nice Catalyst logic there, OP.

[Kloborgg711]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

I am not telling you to buy anything I am telling you to stop trying to sabotage the franchise and company to get your way.

ESPECIALLY... When they haven't even made a comment. This is all just because people are impatient so they get right down to "business".

I hate the endings... Guess I just have more hope.

Impatient? What are you talking about? I said IF they don't rectify the situation they'll have lost my business. IF they do comment and remedy the situation I'll gladly continue buying BW games. Obviously if I simply decided to abandon them entirely at this point I wouldn't be posting...

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

The 40 hours of good is predicated on the fact it means something. Killing the universe actually takes the good and stabs you with it, as it undermines all you achieved and puts you in a depression.

[suusuuu]

They are indoctrinated.

Being nice doesn't get you anywhere. Speaking with your wallet... that's a whole different matter. We're just being considerate and giving them a warning. This should be considered a piece offering, not sabotage.

[HKR148]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

I am not telling you to buy anything I am telling you to stop trying to sabotage the franchise and company to get your way.

ESPECIALLY... When they haven't even made a comment. This is all just because people are impatient so they get right down to "business".

I hate the endings... Guess I just have more hope.

I consider the reason for continuous high-level contention to be more likely because of more people finishing the game. However I am in an agreement with your current stance. My decision on this current BIoware's debacle was to wait either until their next DLC release, or until they actually come out with coherent, uncrpytic statement with clear sense of direction on how they will deal with the current ending controversy. I will decide what the appropriate course of action should be only after if one of those two scenario does happen.

[kato42]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that.

But why should I care about them?  They are just a corporation.  If that corporation doesn't sell me a product that i want, why should I give a wet slap for them?  Live or die, makes no difference to me, but I'm not going to continue to give them my money if I no longer beleive they are going to deliver.

Notably a lot of us aren't saying we want a refund, they did deliver a product, its just not as good as we want.  They can say "too bad, you got your game, we got your money, we're done here", they are under no obligation to do anything.  But we are under no obligation to continue to give them money if we are no longer happy with their products - or their service.

And as I and others have said, we are actually giving them a chance to make this right.  They still have the ability to make us happy customers once more, and for most of us, all will be forgiven (mostly).  But that opportunity is slipping.

If they don't make us happy customers, and Bioware dies, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Jadebaby]

OhManTFE wrote...

The only thing I'm threatening is that I won't be giving them any more money.

That is the only threat us consumers can make that isn't an empty one.

Watch out Kloborgg... Sum1 needs it explained to them

[Thrawn777]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Thrawn777 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Brian.V3 wrote...

Thrawn777 wrote...

I see the problem. The OP is under the assumption that everyone saying they're not buying future Bioware productsunless the ending is fixed will not follow through on their declaration. He is essentially saying "stop making empty threats, Bioware will not take us seriously if we do." And that is where the confusion lies. I, for one, am not making an empty threat. If this is the ending they intended, I will not purchase any of the DLC (and I bought every piece of DLC for ME and ME2, no matter what it was), and I seriously doubt I will purchase any other products. Let me be clear, that is not an empty threat. That is a stone cold fact.

QFT. 

I'm under the impression he was thinking more along the lines "of course you will stop buying their products".

It still doesn't mean you have to use it as leverage when they haven't even commented yet.

No, they haven't commented on it yet. A significant portion of their fanbase has expressed their displeasure with their product, and they have refused to address it directly.  So one of two thing are happening.  The whole "it's a false ending and the real ending  is a free The Truth DLC", in which case my concerns have been adressed and they will retain my business.  Or, this is actually the intended ending, in which case they lose me as a customer. I am simply providing them with the information they need to keep me as a customer.  It's up to them to act on it. 

I can understand how you'd feel that way because of your love for Mass Effect (as I do)..

But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that. And before anyone says anything.


threat/THret/
Noun:

A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.[/list]

Here's the thing. If this whole thing is actually a false ending (the indoctrination theory), and they have free dlc planned to finish the story, then the whole thing is moot.  They will have provided an awesome experience, and in fact I will applaud them for having the balls to stick to their guns and remain silent in the face of all this furor.  However, if this is how they intended to end the game, then they broke serveral promises made about this product, and have shown that they don't give two s***s about me.

[kato42]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Impatient? What are you talking about? I said IF they don't rectify the situation they'll have lost my business. IF they do comment and remedy the situation I'll gladly continue buying BW games. Obviously if I simply decided to abandon them entirely at this point I wouldn't be posting...

Precisely.

[Lancane]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

HKR148 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I am not insulting anybody.  I don't want to see the Mass Effect franchise going under because people didn't like the endings or for that matter see the Dragon Age franchise go under because DA 2 was a hiccup.

Oh, I see. Economic innovation thrives when consumers eagerly buy everything that's offered and act like they're being done a favor. Sorry no, you have this entirely ass-backwards. It's the job of the consumer to FORCE (yes, FORCE) companies to keep up via competition. That's what gets us creativity. You really can't seem to grasp this fact.

It doesn't necessarily make the companies go for more creative path in reality I'm afraid. However it does make the possibilities of producers offering the goods that will satisfy more consumers. There are many variables to how things can get creative; but usually the infusion of money doesn't help on that as we can see with the recent case of Bioware and the EA products in general compared to more privately-owned companies who adopt extreme-closed door policies and extremely free-to-experiment enviroments like Valve.

Well that's what I mean. Bioware can adapt or die. They can alter to suit their consumer's request (or if you want to make us sound evil, "demands"), or they can simply suffer the consequences of losing those consumers.

That's the point, companies can either cater to the consumer or fall into obscurity and that's one of the oldest conceptions of a free market. Who're you going to give your hard earned money to, the company that sells a product that you see fit or the one that doesn't. Economics 101, it's rather simple if your in a competitive market then you better care about what the consumer wants especially in an entertainment based industry which gaming is a part of. How many gaming companies have risen and fallen due to the quality of their products? It took Obsidian Entertainment forever to get back into the good graces of console gamers after their fubar of KOTOR II, Bethesda had to design and produce the Broken Steel DLC for Fallout 3 because of much the same as we're seeing here. Lionshead in the UK is suffering from the bad production of Fable III though Fable II was not as well received as they hoped and they continued to drive further away from the original. Your spatting about Dragon Age II, that's sort of where I see this heading...Dragon Age II fell short in the eyes of a lot of gamers, and Bioware has stated that DA3 will not return entirely to the style of DAO but it would be closer then DA2 was, add this insult to that and how many consumers might the company lose? It's about making a profit, the profit loss due to negligence in production is still a fiscal loss period.

The point I was making about Daewoo was not that they catered to buyers it was that even when they were losing it all, that to them the consumer was still more important and that's seems to be harder and harder to find anymore. 

[Zolt51]

MPSai wrote...

What's wrong with consumers saying they will no longer purchase products from a company they've become dissatisfied with?

Except you actually want to purchase their games. You just want them to give you a reason to. Or an excuse to.

Anyway, people, just remember all the awesome moments of this game. Even if it doesn't cancel your angst with the ending, at least let that help you keep your cool. I'm sure you guys have got Bioware's full attention already - even that just that donation drive was genius. Even though I'm personally ok with the ending, I have to recognize this sends a strong message:
 - You're not just doing this on a whim. You're adults that can be constructive about the idea. You won't change your mind by tomorrow.
 - You're willing to put your money where your mouth is.

Just keep in mind that Bioware will be limited in terms of what they can actually do without retconning the whole thing. "Fixing" the ending at this point is no obvious proposition. No 2 people will agree on how to do it, and you could easily make a bad thing worse. Plus, even for the simplest DLC you don't go from concept to rollout in much less than 6 months. You've got to assemble a project team, define budget, rearrange schedules for dozens of people, make voice recordings and such... hell, just writing the damn thing is going to be a headache.

Bioware isn't Kim Kardashian. They know that any press isn't good press. They've been making games for over a decade and plan to continue doing so, so they know investing in the long term relationship with their fans is their best bet rather than short term savings.  Until now their process to do that was to listen to fan expectation and integrate those in the next game. They may need to challenge that process now, but that won't be easy.

I wouldn't expect an official statement from Bioware for weeks yet, and no "Ending  DLC" for 3 to 6 months if it is ever made at all.

[Skirata129]

betting the OP loves the "we have a hostage" thread. haha

[kato42]

suusuuu wrote...

If Bioware continues the franchise without addressing an issue most (assumption here, but pretty safe) of their fanbase is very much concerned about, then it probably means I, and many others, simply don't want that product. Not because of some sort of betrayal but because a responsible (and smart) developer would address an issue of this urgency, otherwise not only this means they don't care about the consumers, it also means that their products will get progressively worse because of the lack of respect they have for us.

We;ll put.  And not just for us, for their product. 

[DeadLetterBox]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


I can understand how you'd feel that way because of your love for Mass Effect (as I do)..

But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that. And before anyone says anything.


threat/THret/
Noun:

A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.[/list]

BioWare is not a buddy or a friend I need to protect.  They are a company from which I have chosen to buy a great many products.  It isn't up to me to protect their marketshare.  BioWare is a company.  They run like a company.  They do not pretend to be anything else.  I respect that.  Frequently they listen to us.  I respect that too.  If they don't listen to my complaints this time, I will treat them like I would any other company that has provided me with two products in a row that I am incredibly unhappy with.  I will stop buying their stuff.  Because I respect them, I want them to know that's where it's at.  Most of the time I don't care enough about the company to say anything.  I just stop spending.

[HKR148]

Thrawn777 wrote...

Here's the thing. If this whole thing is actually a false ending (the indoctrination theory), and they have free dlc planned to finish the story, then the whole thing is moot.  They will have provided an awesome experience, and in fact I will applaud them for having the balls to stick to their guns and remain silent in the face of all this furor.  However, if this is how they intended to end the game, then they broke serveral promises made about this product, and have shown that they don't give two s***s about me.

Free DLC or not, if that's the case then Bioware should still be criticized for failing to notify the customers that their product isn't finished and still releasing it. Personally in every scenario I can possibly imagine, Bioware have created a very messy situation where no matter what happens, they are in for a loss.

[sadako]

In the old days developers thank you for support (and your money)
Apparently in modern days, we should thank developers for even making the game even if it's not exactly as promised, and then selling it to us for money.

Nice logic.

[kato42]

Zolt51 wrote...

I wouldn't expect an official statement from Bioware for weeks yet, and no "Ending  DLC" for 3 to 6 months if it is ever made at all.

That would be... ill advised.

[suusuuu]

Zolt51 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

What's wrong with consumers saying they will no longer purchase products from a company they've become dissatisfied with?

Except you actually want to purchase their games. You just want them to give you a reason to. Or an excuse to.

I don't want to purchase games from a developer who is disrespectful toward their customers. Lying in interviews? Check. Half assed, non-sensical, five minute ending consisting of lowres cutscenes to ruin your entire experience? Check. Trolling on twitter instead of saying "We can't tell you that yet" ? Check. 

[kato42]

HKR148 wrote...

Free DLC or not, if that's the case then Bioware should still be criticized for failing to notify the customers that their product isn't finished and still releasing it. Personally in every scenario I can possibly imagine, Bioware have created a very messy situation where no matter what happens, they are in for a loss.

Agred, I think they were far too 'clever' for their own good and they are going to take a hit on this one.  The longer they stall an announcement, the worse it gets.

[Jadebaby]

kato42 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that.

Notably a lot of us aren't saying we want a refund, they did deliver a product, its just not as good as we want.

By the Goddess, insert IGN game-journalists "crazy fanboy quote of the day."

It's not about it not being what we want. It's so much more then that.

kato42 wrote...

They can say "too bad, you got your game, we got your money, we're done here", they are under no obligation to do anything.  But we are under no obligation to continue to give them money if we are no longer happy with their products - or their service.

So, that being said do you think Bioware would do nothing, given all the support for the "retake Mass Effect' movement?

kato42 wrote...

And as I and others have said, we are actually giving them a chance to make this right.  They still have the ability to make us happy customers once more, and for most of us, all will be forgiven (mostly).  But that opportunity is slipping.

I don't understand how we can go from using our creativity for the fleets, banners, motivational posters, troll youtube videos. And then even the brilliant ideas those people involving Child's Play.. only to fall back to this.

kato42 wrote...

If they don't make us happy customers, and Bioware dies, they have no one to blame but themselves.

This is the only thing I agree with. Which is why I don't think they will let that happen.

[Jadebaby]

suusuuu wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

MPSai wrote...

What's wrong with consumers saying they will no longer purchase products from a company they've become dissatisfied with?

Except you actually want to purchase their games. You just want them to give you a reason to. Or an excuse to.

I don't want to purchase games from a developer who is disrespectful toward their customers. Lying in interviews? Check. Half assed, non-sensical, five minute ending consisting of lowres cutscenes to ruin your entire experience? Check. Trolling on twitter instead of saying "We can't tell you that yet" ? Check. 

"This hurts you."

EDIT: But they did also say "if you knew what we had planned for ME3, you would hang on to your game forever"

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 15 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Thrawn777]

HKR148 wrote...

Thrawn777 wrote...

Here's the thing. If this whole thing is actually a false ending (the indoctrination theory), and they have free dlc planned to finish the story, then the whole thing is moot.  They will have provided an awesome experience, and in fact I will applaud them for having the balls to stick to their guns and remain silent in the face of all this furor.  However, if this is how they intended to end the game, then they broke serveral promises made about this product, and have shown that they don't give two s***s about me.

Free DLC or not, if that's the case then Bioware should still be criticized for failing to notify the customers that their product isn't finished and still releasing it. Personally in every scenario I can possibly imagine, Bioware have created a very messy situation where no matter what happens, they are in for a loss.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I thought it was a smart strategy that they're taking, simply that I would admire them sticking to their plan in the face of what's going on. That would be major dedication, especially considering they're a business being hit in the bottom line.

[suusuuu]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So, that being said do you think Bioware would do nothing, given all the support for the "retake Mass Effect' movement?

Can happen. Everything is possible.