275 réponses à ce sujet

[Legendaryred]

The only weapons we gamers have against corporations, etc are our wallets, and word of mouth.

[Aedan276]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Glad to see a few people get the point that I'm making, but most still seem to think that I'm telling them they should keep buying Bioware games no matter what.

I think you're making a point of something that doesn't matter. 

Some people are making a commitment to consciously avoid buying Bioware/EA products in the future for personal reasons that have nothing to do with you, or the Retake movement. 

Modifié par Aedan276, 15 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[Everwarden]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
 that is your decision but people calling for boycotts and trying to financialy hurt bioware thus threatening the existance of the franchise threatens future content for those of us that still enjoy it.

If you want to compensate for the money lost I'm sure Bioware would let you cut them a check, money order, or just take cash in the mail. 

[New Generation]

If by threat you mean personal threats against the development staff then you are absolutely right, Don't do that!!!! But I have not seen any threats of that kind. All I have seen are fans stating why they don't like the ending and the consequences it will have on bioware and EA as a business if it isn't fixed or properly fleshed out.

[Dreogan]

kato42 wrote...

This is the simple fact of business. You ****** off your customers, you lose them. Any business should be able to tell you that, although some fail to recognize it.

In fact, I think we are being damn nice to them, we are offering them a chance to fix this. We are waiting a surprisingly long time for them to fix this. I have just walked away and never looked back from many a business far quicker, and for far less, than this.

Besides, most businesses would rather be told that they made a mistake so they can fix it, than to just lose a customer with no opportunity to rectify their mistake.

As was said, in the end EA-Bioware doesn't HAVE to do anything. We aren't holding a gun to their heads. But we are holding our wallets, if they want to keep getting our money, they had better make us happy. But if they think their 'vision' is more important than ours - and our money - then that is their choice. They will have to accept the consequences however.

This is the point. We aren't threatening them; this is a second chance. They fail us again and some of us are out. Many of us are out already.

[WildcardCharlie]

Again...people seem to think I'm telling them to keep buying Bioware games. I'm not.

I'm saying we should stop ANNOUNCING that we're going to stop buying Bioware games, for a few reasons

1) They probably don't believe you. Face it, the history of video game boycotts is that they pretty much always fail. People who joined Left 4 Dead 2 boycott forums ended up pre-ordering the game at a HIGHER rate than people who didn't. Fact.

Even if you plan to not buy Bioware games ever again, they probably don't take you seriously when you say so.

2) It's overly hostile and does not motivate them to do anything. It instead motivates them to ignore their base community and cater even more to mainstream fans.

[thePrimarch]

Actions have consequences.

Just like in ME3.

...Sorry. I guess I'm feeling a little bitter.

[Sam Anders]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So in other words you want to threaten bioware because you didn't get your way and ruin it for those of us that still like their product.

How are we ruining it for people who like it? Explain please? Does EA have a switch that makes the game explode if they don't earn enough money or something? You got it, you like it, we can't do anything with that. 

You are threatening future content such as DLC and possibly future games because you didn't like 5 minutes in what was otherwise a magnificent game.  I have seen calls to boycott planned DLC over the endings.  If you individualy decide not to purchase it than that is fine, that is your decision but people calling for boycotts and trying to financialy hurt bioware thus threatening the existance of the franchise threatens future content for those of us that still enjoy it.

If people want to let it be known that they aren't buying any future product from a company, and why they aren't buying said product, that's fine. Not a threat.

[DeadLetterBox]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Thankyou OP that is what I have been saying. People wanting to see the endings changed is fine. People wanting to financialy threaten bioware and financialy threaten the franchise thus threatening future content is not fine.

No?  What else are we supposed to be able to do to express dissatisfaction?

I didn't financially threaten them for two reasons.  One, it costs a lot more than I have to pay even one BioWare employee.  Two, when I say I am disappointed, it's kind of implied.  I'm not going to threaten not to buy anything from them ever again, I'll just choose not to buy anything from them again.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "I am unhappy with your product, and if you don't make it right I will not purchase more things from you."

What they should be concerned about are not the people that threaten.  They should be concerned about the people that don't.  I've wondered what the sales figures were on DA2 DLC.  I never threatened BioWare over that, but I sure as hell didn't buy it and I lobbied against it when my husband thought about buying it (can't remember if he wound up getting it or not, but I think I talked him into a download for another game instead).  I lobbied against it when my friends thought about buying it.  If all of us who are unhappy right now, including those that aren't posting on the boards, start lobbying against others buying DLC it will be a serious problem for BioWare.  It is currently one I still think they have the chance to address.  So much of the ME franchise has been phenomenal that they have a bit of latitude when it comes to fan dissatisfaction.  Every day they stay silent, however, eats up that bank of goodwill.

When we stop threatening, it means we have given up on BioWare.  That's not where they want to be.

[Harbinger of Hope]

Seems to me that BioWare defenders are the ones acting entitled here. They think that BioWare is entitled to our money.

Guess what?

They aren't.

[UrdnotGrunty2]

We aren't threatening them, we are being honest. Why buy more bioware games if they are just going to give us more crappy endings, and this isn't like its a fluke

DA2 was disappointing (I liked it better than most did but still not their best), thats forgivable

Swtor was extremely disappointing for me, it got boring and gimmicky not the Bioware I used to know, I have either gotten sick of star wars or that just didn't work so well...Maybe both

Mass Effect 3 was about to be Bioware's redemption and then I watched the ending, and I just dont want my emotions jerked around like that, especially when they won't give us a good ending.

So I will not buy a Bioware game again unless I hear lots of good things about it from the players, I have learned I can't trust 'professional reviews', so I will mainly see the fan reaction to their next projects before I think about them. Won't be hard since the only game that will continue a series after this is DA3 and I can live with or without it.

From now on if Bioware wants my money, they are going to have to earn it and not think they can give a pick your color crapfest for an ending.

Believing me is their choice, and believing their fans is their choice.  But if they choose not to believe and the fans are being honest, Bioware could suffer tremondously.

Modifié par UrdnotGrunty2, 15 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[Walrusninja]

I will not threaten them in any way. All I'm saying is: Amend this mess, or consider my ability to trust your resolve (thanks to DA2 and ME3 ending) severely damaged. Future purchases of your products seem unlikely at best. I'm just a consumer man, we all are, we vote with our wallets.

[WildcardCharlie]

Harbinger of Hope wrote...

Seems to me that BioWare defenders are the ones acting entitled here. They think that BioWare is entitled to our money.

Guess what?

They aren't.

Seriously? Did you even read a single one of my posts? I'm not defending Bioware or telling you to buy their products.

[SouperTrooper]

I think Bioware should want people to threaten not to buy their games vs people who just decided not to buy period. The fact that people are "threatening" as opposed to just done with it means they still give a damn and can be won back. In any case I think most companies would want to know why they lost sales as opposed to trying to guess why it happened. This way we saved them major money they'd have to spend on consultants to figure it out.

[Sett101]

Wow not paying is a threat? What about speed limits? It's just the way it is. I don't think Forbes would be writing about this if it wasn't an expected market reaction. So I don't think it's any more of a threat then the changes in forum rules.

PS. Kind of funny we are asking for Choice & Consequence for our game but it would be wrong to show BiowarEA any Consequence.

PSS. wait what you don't have my credit card either why did I reply?

[suusuuu]

KotorEffect3 your point of view is so twisted around and warped I can't even begin to understand. If you're fine with the quality degrading with each new product (because that's what's happening) then you can pay them. I won't. And I advise other people to not do that too. I don't want my favorite type of entertainment get worse than it already is.

Modifié par suusuuu, 15 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[Aedan276]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Again...people seem to think I'm telling them to keep buying Bioware games. I'm not.

I'm saying we should stop ANNOUNCING that we're going to stop buying Bioware games, for a few reasons

1) They probably don't believe you. Face it, the history of video game boycotts is that they pretty much always fail. People who joined Left 4 Dead 2 boycott forums ended up pre-ordering the game at a HIGHER rate than people who didn't. Fact.

Even if you plan to not buy Bioware games ever again, they probably don't take you seriously when you say so.

2) It's overly hostile and does not motivate them to do anything. It instead motivates them to ignore their base community and cater even more to mainstream fans.

Mainstream fans like Mass Effect for the same reasons we do, which is why there are so many returns at GameStop. 

[Desteron]

The only way your going to get a company's attention to make serious changes is to tell them, "I am dissatisfied with this game, I am not going to be buying your products anymore" because company's point is to make money and if people don't like your product, then they wont get their money so re-framing from buying DLC or future Bioware/EA games will make them take action so they wont lose that proverbial "Fat Cash". Other then that your just blowing fumes which will be ignored so don't send hate mail or any of the like simply say, "I am dissatisfied with the ending of Mass Effect 3 and will not be buying any Bioware/EA titles or DLC until a time when the errors are fixed in a well coordinated and thoughtful manner which satisfies not only the questions of the Mass Effect timeline (between Mass Effect One and Three) but also shows proper endings that take into consideration the choice you made throughout the game series and stays true to what the game has been marketed as in the first place."

[RShara]

I think I'm finally understanding what you're trying to say. You're trying to say, you don't want BioWare to go down in flames, and you feel that any sort of group that wants them to do so is bad.

That is understandable.

But please understand. Most people are not saying, NEVER BUY FROM BIOWARE AGAIN THEY SUCK.  IF THEY DONT GIVE ME WHAT I WANANANANANANAA I GOING TO CRY AND GO BUY  MONOPOLY INSTEAD
They are saying, If they don't fix it, I'm not going to buy any more Bioware games because I won't trust them any more. And they are warning other people who share their sentiments, that BioWare, as a BUSINESS will only listen to their profits, as is their right.
So if you agree that they have lost your trust, then you should also be wary of purchasing anything further from them.

To extend my restaurant analogy, if your best friend asked you, "Hey should I go to that restaurant for my anniversary dinner? You always said it was awesome." What would your response be?

Modifié par RShara, 15 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Kloborgg711]

I just wanted to add, this is probably the first I've heard that "not giving money" to someone equates "threatening" them.

[Walrusninja]

Personally, as harsh as it may sound, I think it's better to go down in flames than burn out entirely or compromise yourself. Whether they did that or will do that is debatable but that's where I'd stand should that be the case.

[aliengmr1]

Just being honest. I have little interest in future DLC at this point. This is no ultimatum, its the truth.

I believe there is something in the works, what it is will determine whether I buy DLC.

[WildcardCharlie]

RShara wrote...

I think I'm finally understanding what you're trying to say. You're trying to say, you don't want BioWare to go down in flames, and you feel that any sort of group that wants them to do so is bad.

No...this is not what I'm saying at all.

I'm not speaking in defense of Bioware or their future products.

I'm not asking you to give them any more money.

I'm asking you not to threaten to stop giving them more money if they don't fix the ME3 ending, because it HURTS our cause more than it helps it.

I want the ME3 ending changed just as badly as you do.

[cyrrant]

OP and his defenders seem to be treating Bioware (corporation) as though it were an actual person with its own feelings.

In reality, when you confront an actual person in a hostile manner like this, there may well be some sort of emotional hardening where they become less receptive to your arguments. This is, however, a corporation, beholden to the almighty dollar. Why do you think boycotts and strikes have been effective in the past (not so much recently)? Because they effect the bottom line. If EA/BW think that the only way to make more money on DLC is to release a fixed ending, then by golly they're going to do it. And then once all the anger is placated they'll start selling us other stuff that a lot of us will be more than happy to buy.

I will tell you now, if the ending stays this way, I will not buy any DLC. Partially on a moral stand, but also because the end of ME3 was so bad I was depressed for 3 days.  The Mass Effect series had been my favorite since I first layed my hands on it.  Now it means nothing to me because of that ending.  I can't even think about going back and playing the others now, because it seems pointless.  I cried! I sat on my couch with my dog and just broke down. I'm a man in his mid-20's who last cried in 1995 (I called my mom after to check, no lie)...not because I was so moved that the Star Child was such a provocative narrative creation, but because 5 years of emotional investment was wasted on an ending that was confusing at best and enraging at worst.

You can be damn sure they're not getting another dime out of me for the moment.

Modifié par cyrrant, 15 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[Brian.V3]

Consumers always make this threat.
Its true if nothing happens and people stick to their guns and no longer support BioWare... they won't face a lot of ramifications. However their reputation as a developer is tarnished and they lost potential gains. Cause yeah while they might get someone to replace someone. All business people who are in this type of business would rather get that someone who replaced the once loyal customer along with that once loyal customer.

Besides the threat is more towards getting an actual comment addressing the issues put forth by the consumer instead of what we have gotten which was... we get that you hated the ending type of response.

In other words you should be more... guys please enough with the whole ending change movement they got it. lets talk about other parts of the game because lets be honest this sh8 is not healthy anymore.