275 réponses à ce sujet

[Kloborgg711]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I am not insulting anybody.  I don't want to see the Mass Effect franchise going under because people didn't like the endings or for that matter see the Dragon Age franchise go under because DA 2 was a hiccup.

Oh, I see. Economic innovation thrives when consumers eagerly buy everything that's offered and act like they're being done a favor. Sorry no, you have this entirely ass-backwards. It's the job of the consumer to FORCE (yes, FORCE) companies to keep up via competition. That's what gets us creativity. You really can't seem to grasp this fact.

Actualy it isn't the job of the consumer to force anything.  The consumer is offered a service or a product, they like it then they buy it, if no then they don't but don't think the consumer can throw a temper tantrum just so they can get their way.  Guess what the customer isn't always right.

Your fallacious view of a free-market economy is cute, but blatantly inaccurate. 
Let me try again. Creativity and innovation comes from competition. Competition comes from consumers. If a company makes something consumers want, consumers will buy it. If a company makes something consumers don't want, consumers won't buy it. The companies rely on us, not vice versa. 

"
 don't think the consumer can throw a temper tantrum just so they can get their way.  "
Why? If we didn't say anthing and just refused to buy Bioware games, we would damage the company without a chance for them to redeem themselves. And regardless, you yourself just said that if we don't like something we don't buy it.. and yet that very fact is what you're trying so hard to argue against?

[Jadebaby]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

No, you implied that yourself. *facepalm*.

So because I like something you don't you have superior standards now?

Didn't anyone else picture two Krogans talking this out and hitting each other?

[suusuuu]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

no. you're okay with supporting a falsely advertised product that promised us many things and didn't really deliver. and when people are not okay with being cheated into giving them money (because that's what happened, we were cheated) you say we are nitpicky. I assume you consider lying acceptable in advertisement and PR? 

Modifié par suusuuu, 15 mars 2012 - 07:35 .

[Baine10]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

He said low, not lower. 

There is no comparism, Troll. Saying that also implies you are being elitist. 

Nice try.

[Drak41n]

Bioware. I have poo on a stick, and I've got demands...

[Rob8228]

Thrawn777 wrote...

I see the problem. The OP is under the assumption that everyone saying they're not buying future Bioware productsunless the ending is fixed will not follow through on their declaration. He is essentially saying "stop making empty threats, Bioware will not take us seriously if we do." And that is where the confusion lies. I, for one, am not making an empty threat. If this is the ending they intended, I will not purchase any of the DLC (and I bought every piece of DLC for ME and ME2, no matter what it was), and I seriously doubt I will purchase any other products. Let me be clear, that is not an empty threat. That is a stone cold fact.

You and I are in the same boat. There is nothing empty here.

[Kloborgg711]

HKR148 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I am not insulting anybody.  I don't want to see the Mass Effect franchise going under because people didn't like the endings or for that matter see the Dragon Age franchise go under because DA 2 was a hiccup.

Oh, I see. Economic innovation thrives when consumers eagerly buy everything that's offered and act like they're being done a favor. Sorry no, you have this entirely ass-backwards. It's the job of the consumer to FORCE (yes, FORCE) companies to keep up via competition. That's what gets us creativity. You really can't seem to grasp this fact.

It doesn't necessarily make the companies go for more creative path in reality I'm afraid. However it does make the possibilities of producers offering the goods that will satisfy more consumers. There are many variables to how things can get creative; but usually the infusion of money doesn't help on that as we can see with the recent case of Bioware and the EA products in general compared to more privately-owned companies who adopt extreme-closed door policies and extremely free-to-experiment enviroments like Valve.

Well that's what I mean. Bioware can adapt or die. They can alter to suit their consumer's request (or if you want to make us sound evil, "demands"), or they can simply suffer the consequences of losing those consumers.

[KotorEffect3]

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

no. you're okay with supporting a falsely advertised product that promised us many things and didn't really deliver. and when people are not okay with being cheated into giving them money (because that's what happened, we were cheated) you say we are nitpicky. I assume you consider lying an acceptable in advertisement and PR? 

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 15 mars 2012 - 07:36 .

[HKR148]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

no. you're okay with supporting a falsely advertised product that promised us many things and didn't really deliver. and when people are not okay with being cheated into giving them money (because that's what happened, we were cheated) you say we are nitpicky. I assume you consider lying an acceptable in advertisement and PR? 

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minuts ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

That sentence is actually fairly understandable and reasonable. Then again, I wasn't really in a part of this discussion anyway, haha. I will just go back to being an outsider on this.

Modifié par HKR148, 15 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[kato42]

irishScott3 wrote...

Like I
said, if you think you know how a for-profit business works then you  should also know they wont do anything until they see the decline. Not from "fix it or f u".

Ah, but there are four factors that need to be taken into account.

1. All the bad press and bad reviews is going to make sales slide, customers who haven't bought the game will be more cautious.  I know people who have said "I'll be waiting for the 'Game of the year' edition with all the DLCs and the fixed ending".

2. Many people are selling their copies for used.  This means even if someone does get a copy, they may as well pick it up used for half price.  More likely they will see all the used copies and think "That's a bad sign", and not buy at all.  Either way, that is money EA doesn't  get.

3. People are cancelling their SWtOR MMO accounts.  That had been damn close to money in the bank, a steady income stream that is suddenly diminishing.  i don't pretend to know how bad it is, but if its more than a few hundred, EA will notice.

4. The more media attention we get, the more investors find out that customer confidence in EA is slipping, the more stockholder confidence will slip.  This will cause their stock value to slip, and seeing as many execs own stock in their own company, that is money straight out of their pocket.

So actually, EA will see and feel the decline very quickly, and will have to act to reverse the trend.

Or not.  In which case the deserve what they get.

Modifié par kato42, 15 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[KotorEffect3]

Baine10 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

consumers are too nitpicky

no. you just have low standards.

Claiming you have higher standards than I do?  Yeah that isn't elitist or anything.  *facepalm*

He said low, not lower. 

There is no comparism, Troll. Saying that also implies you are being elitist. 

Nice try.

And you are arguing semantics...troll.

[suusuuu]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minuts ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Actually, I have absolutely no problem with understanding it. As I said, you got the game, you enjoyed it, good. No one is trying to convince you to stop enjoying it. If the franchise is ruined because people stop buying you can only blame Bioware and not the fanbase.

[Jadebaby]

Thrawn777 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Brian.V3 wrote...

Thrawn777 wrote...

I see the problem. The OP is under the assumption that everyone saying they're not buying future Bioware productsunless the ending is fixed will not follow through on their declaration. He is essentially saying "stop making empty threats, Bioware will not take us seriously if we do." And that is where the confusion lies. I, for one, am not making an empty threat. If this is the ending they intended, I will not purchase any of the DLC (and I bought every piece of DLC for ME and ME2, no matter what it was), and I seriously doubt I will purchase any other products. Let me be clear, that is not an empty threat. That is a stone cold fact.

QFT. 

I'm under the impression he was thinking more along the lines "of course you will stop buying their products".

It still doesn't mean you have to use it as leverage when they haven't even commented yet.

No, they haven't commented on it yet. A significant portion of their fanbase has expressed their displeasure with their product, and they have refused to address it directly.  So one of two thing are happening.  The whole "it's a false ending and the real ending  is a free The Truth DLC", in which case my concerns have been adressed and they will retain my business.  Or, this is actually the intended ending, in which case they lose me as a customer. I am simply providing them with the information they need to keep me as a customer.  It's up to them to act on it. 

I can understand how you'd feel that way because of your love for Mass Effect (as I do)..

But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that. And before anyone says anything.


threat/THret/
Noun:

A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.[/list]

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 15 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[Kloborgg711]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

[suusuuu]

This is but a simple warning, can't you see that?

[augustburnt]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

I am yet another person who hates the ending. Most people here are being very civil toward the devs, and that's great. Some others continue to make threads saying "I'm quitting Bioware games if you don't change the ending' etc etc...this gets us absolutely nowhere.

In fact, it probably makes them less likely to change anything.

I'm begging you...stop making it "us vs. them" and painting the devs as evil money-grubbers out to crush your dreams.

Why the **** do none of your teachers teach you about capitalism and free markets? WHAT DO THEY TEACH YOU?!?!?

[ChutneyV]

suusuuu wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minuts ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Actually, I have absolutely no problem with understanding it. As I said, you got the game, you enjoyed it, good. No one is trying to convince you to stop enjoying it. If the franchise is ruined because people stop buying you can only blame Bioware and not the fanbase.

Exactly.
If the Mass Effect franchise is at risk of going under because of this, it speaks to how large of a problem it is to begin with. It, therefore, needs to be addressed, and BioWare will most likely not respond to our complaints or fix the problem if they believe that their bottom-line will be intact or they believe that all we plan on doing is politely asking. What KotorEffect appears to be saying is that we shouldn't tell them that we won't buy their products because they may not like it, and may then decide to end the franchise. Well, it would be their prerogative to do so just as, from the standpoint of a consumer, it's my prerogative to tell them that I don't like the way they didn't follow up with what they claimed their product would be, and if they don't fix it, I will take my money elsewhere. If by "threat" he's been referring to threat to their bottom-line, yeah, it could be if enough people are angry about it, but their bottom-line is not our problem, especially if they don't produce what they say they will.

Modifié par ChutneyV, 15 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[Kloborgg711]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I can understand how you'd feel that way because of your love for Mass Effect (as I do)..
But that must mean you don't give two s***s about Bioware if your so ready to start threatening them like that. And before anyone says anything.
threat/THret/
Noun:
A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.[/list]

Usually when a company makes a decision and loses tons of sales, people tend to blame the company. Is this simple principle really so difficult to grasp for people? Saying "I won't buy from you" is not a threat.

[Kloborgg711]

augustburnt wrote...

Why the **** do none of your teachers teach you about capitalism and free markets? WHAT DO THEY TEACH YOU?!?!?

Be nice to multi-billion dollar and they'll be nice to you! Sunshine and flowers! Give them all your money, and they'll be so inspired they'll start innovating and pushing forward and listening to your input!

[KotorEffect3]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

I am not telling you to buy anything I am telling you to stop trying to sabotage the franchise and company to get your way.

[KotorEffect3]

augustburnt wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

I am yet another person who hates the ending. Most people here are being very civil toward the devs, and that's great. Some others continue to make threads saying "I'm quitting Bioware games if you don't change the ending' etc etc...this gets us absolutely nowhere.

In fact, it probably makes them less likely to change anything.

I'm begging you...stop making it "us vs. them" and painting the devs as evil money-grubbers out to crush your dreams.

Why the **** do none of your teachers teach you about capitalism and free markets? WHAT DO THEY TEACH YOU?!?!?

Take a chill pill

[Ricvenart]

I haven't threatened them with it, I've simply said that without a proper conclusion of sorts, I don't see any point in getting invested in thier stories anymore, DA2 was one thing if they go against thier promise to complete Sebs story but this was just too much. I find it reasonable and if anything logical to not spend time and money on stories which ultimately are treated like this. Same reason I used to love FF so much, because each was it's own self contained story, beginning middle and end and there was a definitive end but now hate it cause of that.
Sorry if it sounds like a threat, but I'm not going to lie and say if this is how they do things, then they are definately something that interests me, if they think all the past claims still hold true then that's great, because it would be decietful, I don't enjoy "write your own endings" stories in general. But if they do have a new ending planned then they know from this that I may end up being pleasantly surpised and a contented customer when they show thier hand. (though I'm still a bit iffy with the concept if it does hold true).

[OhManTFE]

The only thing I'm threatening is that I won't be giving them any more money.

That is the only threat us consumers can make that isn't an empty one.

[Kloborgg711]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Cool story. No one here really cares if you liked it or not. If you like it, good for you, you have no qualms. You have no right to tell us to keep buying DLC and supporting a company whose current trajectory we don't support.

I am not telling you to buy anything I am telling you to stop trying to sabotage the franchise and company to get your way.

OK, we just had a miscommunication then. I'll go tell my guys to defuse the bomb they planted in the Bioware parking garage, and I'll get my contacts to stop running constant DoS attacks on EA servers. See, all this time I thought you considered free-market competition a "threat" and "sabotage". Crazy, right?

[Claym0re]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I consider a 40+hour product of quality entertainment worth my money and time and I won't let 5 lousy minutes ruin it.  Why is that hard for you to understand?

Here are my concerns: http://social.biowar...9980247#9980247