378 réponses à ce sujet

[loungeshep]

Drake_1000 wrote...

Seriously why e.v.e.r.y people who dont hate the endings have to start a thread about that ? And why so many people reply ? They are a minority, dont see the point to try to convince them when all they want is show how smart they are to see what you cant.

Because every people who hate ending has started a thread about it since day one. It's time for the people who liked it to do the same.

It brings balance.

[Myrmedus]

saracen16 wrote...

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Says the self-entitled fan.

You like the ending as it is so you don't want it to be changed for anyone else, inspite of the huge majority who feel betrayed by it - I'd say that's a perfect example of self-entitlement.

[saracen16]

Myrmedus wrote...

Valah79 wrote...

Magic nonsensical Space Magic melding synthetics and organics, which somehow, brings peace and joy and happiness to the universe isn't art. Just like changing color schemes, isn't art. Discussing the pro's and cons of the Genophage with Mordin in ME 2, that was deep, that was enlightening, that was art.

This was deadlines, and budget cuts, there's nothing philosophic or intelligent about the ending.

Another plothole: Why couldn't the Reapers have done the Synthesis themselves?

The Crucible was developed over millions of years by organics.

No, the plans were created over millions of years and each cycle added to that plan. The current cycle got their butts off the couch and built the damn thing.

The Reapers have existed for millions of years and shown superior intellect to every organic species of each cycle. Why couldn't the Reapers have produced the tech for the Synthesis themselves and just synthesized all life in the galaxy?

Because they were programmed by the Catalyst to reap the advanced civilizations of the galaxy and allow organic life to continue. Vendetta and the Catalyst said it themselves: the Reapers are merely servants of the pattern, but not their master.

Stupid.

What's really stupid is that you didn't even consider the rest of the game. The writers masterfully wove the main plot throughout the length of the entire game, and it led up to this moment.

[saracen16]

Myrmedus wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Says the self-entitled fan.

You like the ending as it is so you don't want it to be changed for anyone else, inspite of the huge majority who feel betrayed by it - I'd say that's a perfect example of self-entitlement.

No, it isn't. It's consumer satisfaction, because I liked what BioWare gave me in its unadulterated form. Self-entitlement means that you believe that the product should fit to whatever you want it to be, and if it's not, then it should change regardless of the cost to the freedom of speech and expression of the developer.

[Sarevok Synder]

saracen16 wrote...


So, long story short, you think that my argument is garbage but you don't have anything substantial to back up yours with.

Fine.

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Backup? My backup is right there in the game. A,B and C those were the choices, only A, B and C consisted of nothing more than a colour change.



It's pretty black and white that star child was an idiot. It required Reapers to flip a switch which was right beside it.
 
Or......MAYBE, it was just bad writing. Perish the thought.

[SSVDisappoint]

Topic is at 10 Pages..has someone beat me to it?

"The Ending is Poetic. Beautiful. It's Art. It's ****!"

[Captain Arty]

I went to the Chicago Art Museum in high school. In one room, there was a broom in the corner with a spilled bag of skittles on the floor. I learned later that it was supposed to be a modern art display.

The ending to ME3 was as skillfully done as those spilled skittles and that broom. It didn't say anything profound. It avoided being profound by being contrived and sloppy, and a clear example of deus ex machina.

Everything up to the ending was the ceiling of Sistine Chapel. It was intricate. It was beautiful. It was created with skilled hands. The last 10 minutes were as if an abstract artist walked in, decided what it was "really trying to say" was that life was pointless, and splattered a bucket of paint all over the ceiling.

It completely disregarded the story leading up to that point. It inescapably ruined the entire story.

[Myrmedus]

saracen16 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Says the self-entitled fan.

You like the ending as it is so you don't want it to be changed for anyone else, inspite of the huge majority who feel betrayed by it - I'd say that's a perfect example of self-entitlement.

No, it isn't. It's consumer satisfaction, because I liked what BioWare gave me in its unadulterated form. Self-entitlement means that you believe that the product should fit to whatever you want it to be, and if it's not, then it should change regardless of the cost to the freedom of speech and expression of the developer.

Except that's totally a smoke-screen.

If you're simply happy with what you got you wouldn't be bothered to make this thread, much less insult other fans who are unhappy. You don't want the ending you liked to be changed.

[xxZealouSocitYxx]

Jackal7713 wrote...

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

I'm sorry bud, but I'm sick of people calling me entitled becuase I'm a paying customer that is unhappy with a finished product and that I have no right to voice a complaint. Or when I voice my complaint I'm acting "entitled" and that I'm encroaching on Biowares artistic rights. Its a total BS argument.

As paying customers we are entitled to voicing complaints, of course. But, the people who actually enjoy the game/ending are entitled to that same priviledge. Voice your flaws in his argument all you want as it's honest critisism. But people going, "LOLNOPE. Ending waz bad, You're an idiot for liking it," aren't really being mature.

I, for one, hate the ending and would be happy to voice my thoughts on it. But I also respect those who enjoy it.  

I agree buddy. I've just reached my boiling point due to the game reviewers saying we should just shut up and give Bioware our money after being lied to.
 And if I hear one more IGN editor say I'm acting entitled, I'm going to entitle myself to kicking him in the quad. j/k
/end rage

IGN has always annoyed me. But not for reasons people would suspect (IE. Being paid to give good reviews, which I do not believe happens. Even then, it's just a review. You should play the game for yourself.) but because they seem rude, arrogant about their standings and, to be honest, their journalism and writting isn't actually all too great. 

I prefer GameInformer. And they haven't been paying out us haters, as far as I know (GameInformer). They did give the game a perfect score and the reviewer stated that the ending was masterfully created (which I disagreed with but agreed with everything else) but, like I said, different strokes for different folks. 

All in all, I see what you're talking about with game sites and fans calling "us" entitled and spoilt. We paid for the damn game therefore we have every damn right to hate on it. I spent $140AU on my collectors edition. I think I can hate on the ending if I want.  But, I loved everything else in the game.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

[Alamar2078]

@OP: I appreciate the well through out post you made ; I believe I understand your opinions ; I liked that you discussed this in a very civil manner.

From an artistic point of view though I don't believe the endings were handled well if the main 3 choices as presented are supposed to be believed. In art it's important to have a composition that builds on what your trying to express. You usually don't want elements that take away from that expression / composition and I think the jarring introduction of "space magic/tech" takes away from what could have been a more artistic moment.

While I appreciate your points I do think the ending should be changed because it did not live up to the promises and expectations BW laid out for the game. WIth this POV I ignore "art" entirely as it is irrelevant. If a company promises a product that will deliver X and then choose not to deliver X without telling the customers then the customers have a right to complain and a reasonable expectation for the company to live up to what they promised.

That's my opinion anyway but I certainly liked your post and read through every word ...

[saracen16]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


So, long story short, you think that my argument is garbage but you don't have anything substantial to back up yours with.

Fine.

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Backup? My backup is right there in the game. A,B and C those were the choices, only A, B and C consisted of nothing more than a colour change.

No, it isn't. That's what YOU saw. I saw something else. I saw THE ENTIRE GAME.

It's pretty black and white that star child was an idiot. It required Reapers to flip a switch which was right beside it.

Ah, no it isn't. It leaves you thinking. That's good storytelling right there. And FYI, the switch was the Keepers. That's how it was done. You want to argue with Starchild? Talk to the devs about it, but as far as I see it, there are no "plot holes"... only subjectivity.
 

Or......MAYBE, it was just bad writing. Perish the thought.

The game's writing is SUPERB right up to the very finish. That's something BioWare should be commended for. Instead, you come and moan that you're not on a beach with your LI. Face it: BioWare didn't give us THAT degree of freedom of choice. They gave us their dilemmas and we choose in the end what it should be. You never thought for one second that the last 10 minutes were intended to make you think? I think that it does, and the fact that people are in a furore because of this proves my point.

[WhiteVV1ings]

Er. nevermind. 

Modifié par WhiteVV1ings, 15 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Captain Arty]

There are many examples of bad endings in sci-fi. In almost all examples of bad endings, it was because the writers tried to be too unpredictable, too edgy. In many cases, there is no room in the story for strange twists.

The perfect example of someone screwing up an ending is 2001, the movie. Stanley Kubrick took a mind-blowing, clear description of an object evolving a mind, and turned it into a vague, non-descript lightshow that just seemed weird.

[Jackal7713]

Captain Arty wrote...

There are many examples of bad endings in sci-fi. In almost all examples of bad endings, it was because the writers tried to be too unpredictable, too edgy. In many cases, there is no room in the story for strange twists.

The perfect example of someone screwing up an ending is 2001, the movie. Stanley Kubrick took a mind-blowing, clear description of an object evolving a mind, and turned it into a vague, non-descript lightshow that just seemed weird.

LMAO omg you did not just go there.

[SweetJeeba]

This is ending is onlY memorable baecause it was so generic, something we aren't use to in mass effect games. Lazy is the only way to describe it

[zimm2142]

The purpose of these games is to give the player choice, this rips choice away.
If you're happy, good for you, you got your moneys' worth, I am not happy. I have said it before and I shall say it again, Bioware and EA shall have NONE of my money until such a time as they fix this. Money set aside for games from them is sent to charity or towards other games at 70/30 ratio (respective to order of listing).

HOLD THE LINE!

Modifié par zimm2142, 15 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[Myrmedus]

saracen16 wrote...

No, the plans were created over millions of years and each cycle added to that plan. The current cycle got their butts off the couch and built the damn thing.

You just said the exact same thing I said in different phrasing.

I said: The Crucible was DEVELOPED over millions of years by organics. DEVELOPED =/= BUILT.

Because they were programmed by the Catalyst to reap the advanced civilizations of the galaxy and allow organic life to continue. Vendetta and the Catalyst said it themselves: the Reapers are merely servants of the pattern, but not their master.

Except the Catalyst is sentient and in control of the Reapers, therefore the Catalyst could've had the tech built itself if it was a superior solution to the cycle. The main reason for this not happening before is supposed to be the existence of the Crucible, as the Catalyst says it gave him "additional options", however this still doesn't explain away the fact the Catalyst could've had such a device built itself.

What's really stupid is that you didn't even consider the rest of the game. The writers masterfully wove the main plot throughout the length of the entire game, and it led up to this moment.

I don't know whether to laugh, cry or smash at this statement.

If any game in series hinted at this plot it was ME1, not ME2 and certainly not ME3. In fact, ME2 and ME3 offer contrary themes to the outcome of the story: they show increasing examples of organic/synthetic co-operation. How exactly does the brokered peace between the Quarians and Geth fit in with the Catalyst telling you "All synthetics will kill all organics". How does your character's relationship with Legion fit in with that? How does Joker's relationship with EDI fit in with that? How does Legion's development as a character, the Geth's development as a race fit in with that? How does the revelation that the Geth let the Quarians flee fit in with that? If that was the line BW was going for then the Geth should have remained an antagonist.

As the series went on it actually went in the OPPOSITE direction, showing increasing signs of organics and synthetics living together peacefully. The ending statements from the Catalyst were a complete U-Turn that would've been appropriate in ME1 but by ME3 were completely inappropriate.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 15 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[Ghurshog]

The OP is entitled to his opinion and all I have to say if the ending is 'art' then its plagiarism.

Deux Ex did it first and did it 3 times. possibly better designed, implemented and received.

Why you might ask, because it was done in the proper context. aka not out of left field for the Deus Ex games.

[Myrmedus]

Deus Ex did it perfectly, and the endings were also proper endings not arbitrary mish-mashes.

[Sarevok Synder]

saracen16 wrote...

Snip... It's drivel anyway

Nowhere was the consequences of our actions shown. Our decisions were reduced to war assets, which made no difference to the endings anyway.

Star Child is an idiot, simple as that. FYI, a reaper was required to send a signal to the keepers. Don't try to be smart, it isn't your strong suit.

The ending "writing" was non-existent, same video, different colours.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 15 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[saracen16]

Myrmedus wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Not everything is black and white. You take the game too literally. The grand ending of the game was intentional, and I hope to God that BioWare doesn't change one bit of it for self-entitled fans.

Says the self-entitled fan.

You like the ending as it is so you don't want it to be changed for anyone else, inspite of the huge majority who feel betrayed by it - I'd say that's a perfect example of self-entitlement.

No, it isn't. It's consumer satisfaction, because I liked what BioWare gave me in its unadulterated form. Self-entitlement means that you believe that the product should fit to whatever you want it to be, and if it's not, then it should change regardless of the cost to the freedom of speech and expression of the developer.

Except that's totally a smoke-screen.

No. If BioWare gave me a crap ending (there, I said it, I didn't imply but rather I insinuated that the current ending is AMAZING), then I wouldn't give a damn either, because the journey was amazing either way, and I've seen enough lore and closure to be satisfied. Why? Because I know that as a consumer, I am separated from the artist by the process of creation. It's the artist's job to create, and it's my job to critique it, but it's not my place to force him or her to change what he or she has.

If you're simply happy with what you got you wouldn't be bothered to make this thread,

Eh, I didn't make this thread. PeterG1 did. And he made an excellent argument and thesis that many of you are purposely overlooking. He posted his reaction, his epiphany, and he wanted to share it with everyone else. And I share his joy as well. You don't have to.

much less insult other fans who are unhappy.

He didn't do that either.

You don't want the ending you liked to be changed.

No, I believe the proper phrase is The Golden Rule, "Treat others the way you want to be treated". If you were a developer or writer and believed that your work of art is something subjective that should be analyzed, and an angry mob shows at your door and forces you to change the ending or they'll rape your girlfriend, emotionally blackmail you in front of the whole world, and demean you to no end... would you like that? Would you, a self-respecting artist, give in to their demands? I sure as hell wouldn't like people to tell me what to write or what to think, because that violates my freedom of expression. Besides, you'd want to be remembered for something unique, not for cowering to the demands of consumers and create something run-of-the-mill.

That's how BioWare feels right now.

You are entitled to your own work. Mass Effect is not YOUR work, nor is it mine. It's OUR experience of SOMEONE ELSE's work. And in my opinion, and PeterG1's, it's BEAUTIFUL and INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

[slimshedim]

Elite Midget wrote...

The Matrix 3 handed this type of ending better.

And I didn't like the ending there, too. It came out of the blue and was just retarded and ridiculous.
Matrix 1 was awesome, but 2+3 were just outright retarded. Hardly anyone liked them for obvious reasons.

So, how's a flawed ending full of plot holes, flawed logic and randomly attached cutscenes considered poetic, or even art?

[Nassegris]

If the ending is your approximation of poetry, beauty, and art - let's just say we don't share the same taste.

Since art is wholly subjective, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it can't be art in your eyes. I can only say that compared to work that is truly innovative, artful, thought-out and poetic, I find the current endings to be the artistic equivalents of poorly written, derivative and imagined fan-art by a pretentious thirteen-year-old.

[Vaktathi]

saracen16 wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...


It was "art" when Deus Ex did it 12 years ago, same exact control/destroy/merge options and same red/blue/green color-codings, when the entire game was fairly clearly building up to it.

It's not "art" 12 years later and hamfisted in at the last minute. It feels out of place and forced.

You and your lot are not interested in debating, are you? You just keep repeating and repeating the same asinine points over and over again.

I'm pointing out that trying to make it out like this was some well though out, artistically crafted ending is difficult to accept when we saw the exact same ending before in a different game over a decade ago, identical not only in what choices you had but even the color coding and execution. Trying to make a case for some masterfully thought out and crafted ending in the face of seeing it done before is difficult to take.