378 réponses à ce sujet

[MassFrank]

SandTrout wrote...

MassFrank wrote...

So are we all free to declare art now? Has anyone told the art world of this? They would probably like to know that they no longer need to hire curators and the like.

Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make here, but a lot of us don't give a **** how 'artful' the ending was, one way or another. It failed to do what we paid it to do, and broke promises and expectations that we had, both implied and explicit.

You can do whatever you want and call it art, but when you start selling it, you still have an obligation to fulfill the trade as it was agreed to.

Was responding to the OP's comment that it was art. Actually agree with you. 

[BubbleDncr]

If this really is the true ending to the game - then yes, I understand the purpose of it. If Mass Effect weren't a game about making choices, then I would be fine with it as an ending to a game. But since it pretty much invalidates every choice you've ever made, it contradicts the entire point of the game, so thus, it's not a good ending for Mass Effect 3.

I guess it's fine if you played it on Action Mode and never made any decisions.

[Zalitara]

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

[Darth Malignus]

So some people call the end of ME3 "Art". What did Art ever do to you?

Modifié par Darth Malignus, 15 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[SandTrout]

MassFrank wrote...

Was responding to the OP's comment that it was art. Actually agree with you. 

Ah, ok, your stance was a bit ambiguous.

[suusuuu]

Zalitara wrote...

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

Don't worry, I am an art student and study art history and for me calling this ending artful is downright insulting (to the artists and art in general, not to ME3).

Modifié par suusuuu, 15 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[KombatWombat]

Calling something "art" is ambiguous and it allows for interpretation. "Well, you just don't see what I see, therefore I know its art, and you lack understanding of true art, etc."

No. This may be art, but its terrible art. And art for arts sake isn't something I will just pay $85 dollars for and accept as is. No.

[SandTrout]

Zalitara wrote...

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

To be fair, there is a lot of art in the world that I'm sure you appreciate, even if it's not 'purly' art. I am, of the opinion, for instance, that video games are, indeed, an artform. However, that in no way negates any critisms leveled at it, because it is also a comercial product.

[PhazeLord]

It would've also been memorable if GIANT SPACE SHARKS warped in... ate the Reapers... threw up their remains and said SPACE SUSHI FOR ALL!!!

And it would've been about as well-recevied.

The ending was garbage. It wasn't clever... it wasn't edgy or polarizing. It was just stupid.

[Capeo]

Yes, it's art. Art stolen directly from a metal song.

[KombatWombat]

SandTrout wrote...

Zalitara wrote...

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

To be fair, there is a lot of art in the world that I'm sure you appreciate, even if it's not 'purly' art. I am, of the opinion, for instance, that video games are, indeed, an artform. However, that in no way negates any critisms leveled at it, because it is also a comercial product.

I don't know about you, but I play games alot for the simple reason that they're NOT life. They're an escape, something I have a modicum of control over. I don't need some artist to give me a downer ending and say, "well, its art and expression and everything can't always be happy." Yeah, great, I'm 30 years old and have had my share of downers in life, as anyone has.

Don't give me your garbage about expression and this and that, when in addition to not being able to succeed at the end of ME3 in any meaningful way, the jarring plot holes and "wtf" moments are everywhere.

[kjir]

@saracen16, you are a brave, brave man. I applaud your point by point refutation of Mymedus' arguments, even if some of your points don't stand. I think I notice a theme running through all these refutations though, and seems to stem from the difference in opinion regarding the Reaper AI (the Star-Child, God Child, That Little F***). People that generally appreciate the ending tend to have a more favorable view towards the introduction of the AI. People that don't... well, don't. What're your thoughts on this?

[SandTrout]

KombatWombat wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Zalitara wrote...

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

To be fair, there is a lot of art in the world that I'm sure you appreciate, even if it's not 'purly' art. I am, of the opinion, for instance, that video games are, indeed, an artform. However, that in no way negates any critisms leveled at it, because it is also a comercial product.

I don't know about you, but I play games alot for the simple reason that they're NOT life. They're an escape, something I have a modicum of control over. I don't need some artist to give me a downer ending and say, "well, its art and expression and everything can't always be happy." Yeah, great, I'm 30 years old and have had my share of downers in life, as anyone has.

Don't give me your garbage about expression and this and that, when in addition to not being able to succeed at the end of ME3 in any meaningful way, the jarring plot holes and "wtf" moments are everywhere.

Um, I think that we are in agreement here.

[BubbleDncr]

Also, some people say that painting a square canvas completely blue is art.

I don't.

To each his own, I guess.

[MassFrank]

There seems to be a stance, that if it is ambiguous and unpleasant, you can call it "artful" and that makes it good. So if your toaster causes sparks, and no longer functions at making toast, you can call it art, then it is fine. The end of ME1 made me want to play ME1 and ME2. The end of ME2 made me want to play ME2 and ME3. The end of ME3 makes me want to deride it on forums. If that was its intent, then it is well done.

[KombatWombat]

SandTrout wrote...

KombatWombat wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Zalitara wrote...

The people who liked this ending keep making me think I am some unsophisticated ****. I don't like poems, I generally don't like art, and most people I know doesn't either. Art is something for the minority, I wanted what Mass Effect was throughout the series, if I wanted a life lesson, or to be "enlightend" I'd go outside and live my life like I normally do, not play a video game.

To be fair, there is a lot of art in the world that I'm sure you appreciate, even if it's not 'purly' art. I am, of the opinion, for instance, that video games are, indeed, an artform. However, that in no way negates any critisms leveled at it, because it is also a comercial product.

I don't know about you, but I play games alot for the simple reason that they're NOT life. They're an escape, something I have a modicum of control over. I don't need some artist to give me a downer ending and say, "well, its art and expression and everything can't always be happy." Yeah, great, I'm 30 years old and have had my share of downers in life, as anyone has.

Don't give me your garbage about expression and this and that, when in addition to not being able to succeed at the end of ME3 in any meaningful way, the jarring plot holes and "wtf" moments are everywhere.

Um, I think that we are in agreement here.

Yes, we are! I didn't mean you when I said "your". I meant the articles and interviews decrying the movement and complaints to change the endings as an attack against "artistic expression". And I use that term in the most condescending way my keyboard will allow!

[Skyblade012]

This is art? Rubbish.

I rate the ending right up there with the blinking lights in the art world.

[aksoileau]

Don't let the soulful and artul Clint Mansell track fool you, that ending is an abomination.

[raeting]

Whether or not it is art is besides the point, really. Art is not a defense. I get the endings. I understand the philosophical questions posed by them. I still don't like them. Mostly due to the lack of closure in the series.

Even Xenosaga, which depending on how you look at it, flew off the rails with sudden religious overtones. The ending killed one of the most beloved characters in the series. Even there, they wrapped it up. You saw what everyone else did. It was bleak, in a way, but they were happy with their situation. They prevailed through it all.

There's a bit of wisdom that often circulates in programmer circles: "Don't be too clever." It is neat when you can come up with a clever solution to a problem. Or a clever bit of code. That fails, however, when your clever code becomes obtuse. Unreadable. Difficult to understand. That's bad, you aren't doing anyone any favors by making them work with your 'clever' code.

ME3 tried to be too clever.

[Mizar_Panzar]

There are plenty of crap poets and rubbish artists out there.

Just because it is art and poetic does not make it good, or, logical. In fact, as you might read in another thread, the end screen is actually plagiarized from winterburn.

[Ariq007]

Thanks for your post man, but I've gotta say.....it's hard to take you seriously when you say Deus Ex:HR failed with this kind of ending but Mass Effect succeeded. Really?! In Deus Ex it worked because it fit with the theme of that game. In Mass Effect it felt incredibly alien and jarring, not to mention it served to nullify our choices throughout the entire series, and choice and consequence is supposed to be a hallmark of the ME series.

This type of ending does not fit the ME franchise. That doesn't make it "deep" or "clever" or whatever else. It just makes it artsy-fartsy at best, and just plain terrible at worst.

[Darth Malignus]

PhazeLord wrote...

It would've also been memorable if GIANT SPACE SHARKS warped in... ate the Reapers... threw up their remains and said SPACE SUSHI FOR ALL!!!

And it would've been about as well-recevied.

The ending was garbage. It wasn't clever... it wasn't edgy or polarizing. It was just stupid.

Don't be foolish. There's no such thing as "warped in". Giant Space Sharks, sure. But having warp drives is just whack.

Modifié par Darth Malignus, 15 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[saracen16]

kjir wrote...

@saracen16, you are a brave, brave man. I applaud your point by point refutation of Mymedus' arguments, even if some of your points don't stand.

Ignorance is bliss, but so is arrogance... believing that you're always right. I don't believe I have the answers, and neither does Mymedus... and neither do you. So if you have an argument to make, why the **** won't you tell me what they are instead of trolling?

I think I notice a theme running through all these refutations though, and seems to stem from the difference in opinion regarding the Reaper AI (the Star-Child, God Child, That Little F***). People that generally appreciate the ending tend to have a more favorable view towards the introduction of the AI. People that don't... well, don't.

Then you didn't really read my posts. You just whined from the sidelines belittling me that I'm "brave" and at the same time that I am wrong. You sound just like that slippery bastard Kai Leng: "Is that the best you can do?"

I'm not going to entertain your question because you didn't even consider my argument sincerely.

Modifié par saracen16, 15 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Garbage endings that's not art is garbage endings that's not art

/thread

[Reidbynature]

 It's not art, it's plot holes. 

I really don't like this kind of argument when you see a wide range of people, possibly even the majority, disliking something like this.  It's essentially just saying to them "oh you just didn't get it".  I think if you're truly going to make art for a mass audience (which I don't think was the case here), then you do have to make it so that the message is still communicable to a wider audience and not something only a few people outside of those creating it may get or appreciate.  That to me suggests a problem with those creating it rather than a lack of intelligence on the part of the audience or them just not getting it.  

There is too many people who play this game who don't appreciate the ending for saying "you don't get it" to be true.  Most of whom are likely intelligent enough to decipher something artistic and quite a few of them are also likely to know what art is, either from studying it or being artists themselves.

Also the OP mentions Deus Ex HR in relation to ME3.  I think the ME3 endings felt like they took too much of a cue from Deus Ex.  Also I think Deus Ex HR was an 'ok' game that didn't live up to the original and felt like it didn't really know what game it wanted to be, Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid.  Honestly that game felt more like an homage to MGS the more it went on (not the first game to do that either sadly).