I wish I could agree with you. I beat it again tonight thinking maybe I'm overlooking something. No, it was just as bad the second time. I know what I like and that ending isn't it. Never expected happy, just coherent.
The Ending is Poetic. Beautiful. It's Art.
Débuté par
PeterG1
, mars 15 2012 06:05
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#27
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
LotharanAeron
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Other games have tried this (I think Deus Ex HR tried it. Not well, it was dramatically and plot-wise weak) and failed.
Personally I think DX:HR did a far better job. The choices were very clear, the presentation of suddenly being presented with choice fit the themes of the game and every ending had a clear narration detailing the pros and cons of said choice. It left the future "open" but there was no doubt about what you did or how it will immediately change the world.
ME3 could have been that, if there were fewer plot holes and a little less ambiguity.
#28
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
ashwind
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I would totally agree with the OP if there werent so many plot holes.
Cut the scene of the Normandy crash landing and showing survivors would be as artistic, as poetic AND monumentally more logical.
The ending would be perfect if:
1. It ended when Shepard closed his eyes beside Anderson. Then everything is left unknown.
2. It ended with Shepard choosing one of the 3 possibilities.
That way, we can try to think about what happened to the characters because none of them were shown. But to show the Normandy...
I do not mind the breathing cut scene because - Hey, nobody is 100% sure that's Shepard. For all you know it could be the next ME series's N7 protagonist.
Cut the scene of the Normandy crash landing and showing survivors would be as artistic, as poetic AND monumentally more logical.
The ending would be perfect if:
1. It ended when Shepard closed his eyes beside Anderson. Then everything is left unknown.
2. It ended with Shepard choosing one of the 3 possibilities.
That way, we can try to think about what happened to the characters because none of them were shown. But to show the Normandy...
I do not mind the breathing cut scene because - Hey, nobody is 100% sure that's Shepard. For all you know it could be the next ME series's N7 protagonist.
#29
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
Shaoken
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Well I'll just add this here instead of making a new topic; my brain came to hte "conclusion" that the ending was meant to be ambigious because that's really the nature of war; after everything you don't get to see what happens next, you just have to be left wondering.
....that said, I want the game to be extended a bit to answer some questions; why is your party back on the Normandy, why are they outrunning the wave, that sort of thing.
....that said, I want the game to be extended a bit to answer some questions; why is your party back on the Normandy, why are they outrunning the wave, that sort of thing.
#30
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
viperabyss
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I think this thread wouldn't be swept under the rug that soon if you at least offer your explanation of the ending, as opposed to praising all the big media company for making a ballsy move.
I've watched that ending front to back for a dozen times now, and I still don't understand what BW is trying to convey to us. Perhaps if you really believe the ending was so enlightening, you can enlighten us a bit?
I've watched that ending front to back for a dozen times now, and I still don't understand what BW is trying to convey to us. Perhaps if you really believe the ending was so enlightening, you can enlighten us a bit?
#31
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
ket_shee
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I respect your opinion of the ME3 experience, have to get that off the bat.
Once again, no offense intended, but would you still believe a copy of a copy of a work of art is still art?
There are some on this forum who would disagree.
Once again, no offense intended, but would you still believe a copy of a copy of a work of art is still art?
There are some on this forum who would disagree.
#32
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:15
SandTrout
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Blockbuster implies good sales. The only reason sales are good is because BioWare lied about the content of the product in order to get the ignorant pre-order money.
Their sales will drop dramatically as word of mouth spreads.
Their sales will drop dramatically as word of mouth spreads.
#33
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:16
Enraged Sympathizer
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Look I'm all for the power of thought, exploration of the mind in art, poetry and there purposes but it just didn't fit, ESSPECIALLY with of the freaking plot holes!!! Any how please consider everything that would be caused by those endings because the after math is not poetic and beautiful, it's just senseless.
#34
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:16
shamE12
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I'm going to have to completely disagree with you there.
#35
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:16
Gibb_Shepard
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The ending is illogical. Devoid of sense. It's horrid.
#36
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:17
Chromie
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PeterG1 wrote... Other games have tried this (I think Deus Ex HR tried it. Not well, it was dramatically and plot-wise weak) and failed..
I find it funny you think Deus EX HR did a worse job. Their ending was much better and it's so obvious Bioware was trying to emulate it and failed.
#37
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:18
Sam Anders
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It's a blatant rip-off of Deus Ex (and a quite literal deus ex machina) combined with Battlestar Galactica (the "ideal" ending), riddled with plotholes and nonsense.
The only relation it has to art is that there are different colors in it.
The only relation it has to art is that there are different colors in it.
#38
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:18
77boy84
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I dislike you and everyone that thinks like you.
#39
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:18
dallicant
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I really fail to see how it's artistic.
Now maybe it's a commentary of player agency in video games. That no matter how many options a player may appear to have, he or she is still constrained by the world the writer created. Choice exists, but it is limited and is ultimately an illusion; this is therefore reflected in Shepherd's inability to seek an alternative to the Catalyst's options.
However, this was still poorly done. Bioshock handled the same idea in a much more engaging fashion. In ME, a lot of players were probably itching to provide counterexamples to the Catalyst's assertion. While these counterexamples do not prove the Catalyst wrong, they demonstrate that there is room for debate. The fact that such room exists makes the denial of player agency an obvious result of authorial fiat instead of a logical outgrowth of the limitations inherent to the medium. The artifice is very obvious. With all due respect, I cannot understand how it is satisfying on either an emotional level, or on a more rarified intellectual one.
Believe me, if ME had a clever twist ending that did make a legitimate artistic statement, I'd be the last to complain. However, this came out of nowhere, and goes against the series' ethos without sufficient justification.
Now maybe it's a commentary of player agency in video games. That no matter how many options a player may appear to have, he or she is still constrained by the world the writer created. Choice exists, but it is limited and is ultimately an illusion; this is therefore reflected in Shepherd's inability to seek an alternative to the Catalyst's options.
However, this was still poorly done. Bioshock handled the same idea in a much more engaging fashion. In ME, a lot of players were probably itching to provide counterexamples to the Catalyst's assertion. While these counterexamples do not prove the Catalyst wrong, they demonstrate that there is room for debate. The fact that such room exists makes the denial of player agency an obvious result of authorial fiat instead of a logical outgrowth of the limitations inherent to the medium. The artifice is very obvious. With all due respect, I cannot understand how it is satisfying on either an emotional level, or on a more rarified intellectual one.
Believe me, if ME had a clever twist ending that did make a legitimate artistic statement, I'd be the last to complain. However, this came out of nowhere, and goes against the series' ethos without sufficient justification.
#40
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:18
Where my deeds have lead me
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It is poetic it is art and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MASS EFFECT!
#41
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:19
Juniper Mucius
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Uh. The ending makes absolutely no frelling sense.
#42
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:19
Maria Caliban
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I don't know about other artforms, but the average published writer has a fulltime job. They can make it in the business world just fine.Legendaryred wrote...
Even wonder why so many artists don't make it in the business world?
Because there's fierce competition and shelf space is limited.ever wonder why so many artists don't get to sell their "art"? Exactly.
#43
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:19
kato42
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The ending isn't art, its not smart, its not clever, and its not deep.
Its crap, simply because it doesn't fit.
Its like watching the Terminator and suddenly the ending is something from a French art film.
It makes no sense. And it doesn't fit!
Its crap, simply because it doesn't fit.
Its like watching the Terminator and suddenly the ending is something from a French art film.
It makes no sense. And it doesn't fit!
#44
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:19
clonedoriginzero
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yeah, its poetic, i was vomiting in stanzas
#45
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:20
Rusty0918
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#46
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:20
HKR148
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...I carefully read your post. All your statements are nothing but judgmental statements without providing any tangible logical argument to why your statement holds to be true. Do you truly expect any rational human being to accept your argument that contains barely any logic but 'personal opinions'?
Modifié par HKR148, 15 mars 2012 - 06:20 .
#48
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:21
HolyAvenger
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I think they were going for art. I think they failed. Gigantic plot holes through which you could drive a Mack truck? Yeah, nah, that's not going to work as a satisfactory ending I'm afraid.
#49
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:22
wikkedjester
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"A Gainax Ending is an ending that doesn't make any sense. This is usually a deliberate form of Mind Screw or intended as a Sequel Hook to a sequel that was never made. For whatever reason, after watching a
Gainax Ending, you won't have any idea what happened. After rewatching it, rewatching the entire series, discussing it with other fans, looking up the meaning of the symbolism, and subjecting the entire thing to a
comprehensive literary analysis, you still might not have any idea what happened. If you're lucky, then there will be some kind of emotional or symbolic resolution even if it doesn't actually explain what happened to
the characters, and you'll be left with the sense that the series as a whole was more deeply thought out than it seemed before. If you're unlucky, then you'll be left with more questions than when you started
with, and the sense that the series as a whole has been voided of the meaning you once read in it.
A Gainax Ending frequently involves bizarre and nonsensical Genre Shifts, Fauxlosophic Narration, and/or Faux Symbolism, and may very well cause Ending Aversion. For an aborted Sequel Hook, you might encounter a Diabolus Ex Vacuus (where a new villain appears from nowhere, does something villainous, and then disappears again) or No Ending in the form of an ambiguous Cliff Hanger. Either way, it would have been addressed in the sequel... had there been one.
The Trope Namer is Studio Gainax, who became associated with this trope after the infamous ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Compare No Ending, which shares the lack of resolution, and Trippy Finale Syndrome, which has similar imagery but actually makes sense (it's explicitly a Dream Sequence, a Battle in the Center of the Mind, takes place in Another Dimension, etc). Not to be confused with Gainaxing."-TV Tropes.
Mass Effect 3 under the Gainax Ending Trope.
"
Gainax Ending, you won't have any idea what happened. After rewatching it, rewatching the entire series, discussing it with other fans, looking up the meaning of the symbolism, and subjecting the entire thing to a
comprehensive literary analysis, you still might not have any idea what happened. If you're lucky, then there will be some kind of emotional or symbolic resolution even if it doesn't actually explain what happened to
the characters, and you'll be left with the sense that the series as a whole was more deeply thought out than it seemed before. If you're unlucky, then you'll be left with more questions than when you started
with, and the sense that the series as a whole has been voided of the meaning you once read in it.
A Gainax Ending frequently involves bizarre and nonsensical Genre Shifts, Fauxlosophic Narration, and/or Faux Symbolism, and may very well cause Ending Aversion. For an aborted Sequel Hook, you might encounter a Diabolus Ex Vacuus (where a new villain appears from nowhere, does something villainous, and then disappears again) or No Ending in the form of an ambiguous Cliff Hanger. Either way, it would have been addressed in the sequel... had there been one.
The Trope Namer is Studio Gainax, who became associated with this trope after the infamous ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Compare No Ending, which shares the lack of resolution, and Trippy Finale Syndrome, which has similar imagery but actually makes sense (it's explicitly a Dream Sequence, a Battle in the Center of the Mind, takes place in Another Dimension, etc). Not to be confused with Gainaxing."-TV Tropes.
Mass Effect 3 under the Gainax Ending Trope.
"
- Mass Effect 3:
There are three endings: You control the Reapers, possibly by uploading
yourself into the Citadel, and force them to leave. You destroy the
Reapers and all other synthetic life, and all organic life if you did
particularly poorly. Or, you make all organic and synthetic life a
techno-organic synthesis. The entire mass effect network is then
destroyed spreading your control / destruction / synthesis energy wave
across the galaxy, and in most endings the Citadel is destroyed and/or
Shepard is killed in the process. The Normandy, which was last seen on
Earth, is then seen crashing down on an unknown planet after being
caught in the wave while travelling between Mass Relays.*
An after-credit epilogue then shows an old man telling the legend of
"The Shepard" to a child and then being asked by the child for another
tale of Shepard's exploits, implying Shepard may have actually survived.
Finally, in the "best" destruction ending a scene will play showing an
N7 soldier who appears to be Shepard waking up in a pile of rubble,
though how or even where the scene takes place is left unclear."- TV Tropes
Modifié par wikkedjester, 15 mars 2012 - 06:27 .
#50
Posté 15 mars 2012 - 06:22
Maria Caliban
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The original Deus Ex did this and was lauded.Skelter192 wrote...
PeterG1 wrote... Other games have tried this (I think Deus Ex HR tried it. Not well, it was dramatically and plot-wise weak) and failed..
I find it funny you think Deus EX HR did a worse job. Their ending was much better and it's so obvious Bioware was trying to emulate it and failed.
But the entire game was about the effect of new technologies on the world and various groups attempting to control humanity.
