378 réponses à ce sujet

[die-yng]

Aedan276 wrote...

RGC_Ines wrote...

ME3 ending would be " art" or " good" if it was created with Mass Effect fans in Devs mind, not a new player for whom ME3 is a perfect point to start theirs ME experience. A lot of players invested many years and hours in a Trilogy, only to discover, that all those things above and theirs choices means nothing at the end. I can accept that BioWare wanted to show us a war and yes, a war isn't a " fairy tale". Im ok with Shepard death, but not with destroying all universe, and a big f..... from Devs for all my hours of gameplay...

I'm not sure why people keep saying they're "okay" with Shepard's death as if at some point Mass Effect stopped being an RPG. 

Obviously Shepard should die as the price of some decisions and as a punishment for failing to prepare, but this idea the PC should die "no matter what" needs to stop. 

I totally agree with you. It is an rpg, it has to give at least the possibility of a real positive ending for your char.

Damn, even Dragon Age II didn't kill of Hawke and his LI and you could also save all your companions (even the idiot Anders) if you wanted to (or managed to).

[ZodiEmish]

If I may say. If it is so artful, and we are just stupid and don't understand.. then I think all 40,000 of us who voted should move on to other games. We should not buy any DLC, and spend our money some place else, because we don't understand the art of it...

I mean it is not like Bioware, and EA are out to make money. They totally are not, and it is not like a large amount of the profit for the game comes from the future DLC, and it is not like they are expecting us to buy this DLC....

So lets move on, because we don't understand, and since they are not a business out to make money, they don't need to change their art to make the most amount of money by making us happy..

Am I right?

[Flyprdu]

Mass Effect 3 is essentially an sci-fi drama / action movie. It's not supposed to be a poetic masterpiece.   Certain genres have certain methods.   ME3's ending would be comparable to rather than watching the Death Star explode in ROTJ, we're left with a panning over a field in the Endor moon forest, while a voiceover of Obi-Wan monologues Dr. Seuss. Movie ends.

Gotta know your genre.

Modifié par Flyprdu, 15 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[Chromie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I agree that a work should be compelling, though compelling is a subjective reaction, but I’d say that Mass Effect 3 is compelling. It is emotionally taunt and delves into conflicts in a way that’s far more satisfying than the previous games of the series.

Which is one of the reasons that the ending is so disappointing.

Some really great themes from Mass Effect that Gamefront does a much better job explaining it.


"This is what makes Mass Effect 3′s ending particularly galling. After years of forcing players to wrestle with surprisingly complex issues ranging from bigotry, sexual freedom, religion, political corruption and personal moral compromise – especially in the final game – it ultimately disregards all of them in order to force a tired twist ending on players who have seen far too many movies and played far too many games to be surprised. That the ending also requires the player to act contrary to their own actions as established by the series and even Mass Effect 3 itself is just bitter icing on a stale cake."

http://www.gamefront...ns-are-right/5/ 

[sadako]

ZodiEmish wrote...

If I may say. If it is so artful, and we are just stupid and don't understand.. then I think all 40,000 of us who voted should move on to other games. We should not buy any DLC, and spend our money some place else, because we don't understand the art of it...

I mean it is not like Bioware, and EA are out to make money. They totally are not, and it is not like a large amount of the profit for the game comes from the future DLC, and it is not like they are expecting us to buy this DLC....

So lets move on, because we don't understand, and since they are not a business out to make money, they don't need to change their art to make the most amount of money by making us happy..

Am I right?

QFT,  I bought all DLCs for ME2, and none at all for DA2 and probably not for ME3 CE.
Too late, company screwed up, and now I'm going to ditch the ME franchise unless they up their game.

[DeadLetterBox]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Storytelling is an art. Assuming that you are correct and most of us just don't "get it", it is the job of the person telling the story to make the ending relatively easy to get. Or at least interesting to entertain.

I disagree that storytellers have a job to create easy to get stories.

The Wire requires hours of watching and remembering a host of different characters and actors. It's the closest thing I've seen to 'an epic' on TV, but it demands a great deal of the viewer. David Lynch has some great movies that are difficult to unravel. One of the better fantasy epics of the last decade is the Malazan Books of the Fallen, which seems to have twenty different viewpoint characters per 300k word novel, some of whom will appear for five pages and then disappear for two hundred.

I agree that a work should be compelling, though compelling is a subjective reaction, but I’d say that Mass Effect 3 is compelling. It is emotionally taunt and delves into conflicts in a way that’s far more satisfying than the previous games of the series.

Which is one of the reasons that the ending is so disappointing.

I see your point about not necessarily making it "easy to get."  And we are in total agreement about one thing; the ending of the game did not fulfill the promise of the rest of the game.

[MadMrMalkav]

The ending of 1986 is art.

However if you tack the ending of 1986 onto the end of The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe it stops being art and becomes infuriating and silly. They did not match the tone or theme or consistent plot.

[die-yng]

Skelter192 wrote...

die-yng wrote...

Everyone has a right to his opinion, but let me say this.

Mass Effect was never about originality.

 



And
OP 2001: A Space Odyseey was beautiful that was art. It gave us much
with so few words. It used music and film but not words to tell a story.
It's amazing and it's an insult to call ME3 art while masterpieces such
as Space Odyssey exist.

So you basically agree with me? Or how should I read this (and it really was difficult to read this, worked only when I tried to quote your post:D) ?

Modifié par die-yng, 15 mars 2012 - 06:42 .

[RGC_Ines]

Aedan276 wrote...

I'm not sure why people keep saying they're "okay" with Shepard's death as if at some point Mass Effect stopped being an RPG. 

Obviously Shepard should die as the price of some decisions and as a punishment for failing to prepare, but this idea the PC should die "no matter what" needs to stop. 

Hmm..And where I said that Shepard have to die no matter what? I just said, that Im personaly OK with my Shep death, not that it should be set in stone.

Modifié par RGC_Ines, 15 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Foulpancake]

Another one of these huh...

I'm just too tired of these to even come up with a witty retort...

[HKR148]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Storytelling is an art. Assuming that you are correct and most of us just don't "get it", it is the job of the person telling the story to make the ending relatively easy to get. Or at least interesting to entertain.

I disagree that storytellers have a job to create easy to get stories.

The Wire requires hours of watching and remembering a host of different characters and actors. It's the closest thing I've seen to 'an epic' on TV, but it demands a great deal of the viewer. David Lynch has some great movies that are difficult to unravel. One of the better fantasy epics of the last decade is the Malazan Books of the Fallen, which seems to have twenty different viewpoint characters per 300k word novel, some of whom will appear for five pages and then disappear for two hundred.

I agree that a work should be compelling, though compelling is a subjective reaction, but I’d say that Mass Effect 3 is compelling. It is emotionally taunt and delves into conflicts in a way that’s far more satisfying than the previous games of the series.

Which is one of the reasons that the ending is so disappointing.

I see your point about not necessarily making it "easy to get."  And we are in total agreement about one thing; the ending of the game did not fulfill the promise of the rest of the game.

Jean-Paul Sartre's the Wall is 'deep' and compelling, but without glaring logical holes and plot contradictions. There's a difference between making the audience really interact with the ending and asks themselves the multitude of questions and leaving the ending with so many logical problems and plot contradictions and making the audience to go what.the.[f].

Modifié par HKR148, 15 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Menagra]

Even if something is artist doesn't mean you have to like it. "Turtles may fly" was an artistic movie...but it's my least favorite movie of all time.

[Singu]

The kid, dream sequences and the whole ending is not art, not even closely. It's a copy and paste of movie and games pop culture with the last generation. Matrix, F.E.A.R., Inception and paperback futurism novels. It's nothing deep about it at all.

The deep part about ME saga is that it invited the gamer into the evolution of your character, instead of following a narrative track you got to choose destinies and narration to a limited degree that no other game had achieved before. The art is in making us believe we was behind the wheel and not the gamedesigners, not by ripping off pseudo philosophical futurism with a tiny bit of horror movie tricks here and there.

[Chromie]

die-yng wrote...


So you basically agree with me? Or how should I read this (and it really was difficult to read this, worked only when I tried to quote your post:D) ?

Well OP means original post(er) the image was just supporting you =P

And you know you could just open it in a new tab. 

Modifié par Skelter192, 15 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Captain_Obvious]

How exactly is it so hard to understand that one man's Picasso is another man's steaming pile of poo? Great, we get it. You loved it because it's art. It's not MY kind of art, and I really wish people would stop trying to convince those of us who do not agree that it's good art. We all agree that it's art. art is subjective, and my subjective opinion is that the end of this artistic expression ruins the whole of the artistic expression.

[thegamefreek78648]

I've talked to a few people about this and we have come to an agreement. What was missing was a Dragon Age: Origins style epilog where they give you some indication of how the choices you made are going to effect the galaxy as time progresses. They could have done it with silent text boxes like DA:O did or perhaps as a speech from Hacket to the surviving troops.

Something that simple would have gone a good way from taking a mediocre ending and made it good, maybe even great.

[Caz Neerg]

What is entertaining is in the eye of the beholder. I am happy for anyone who was fortunate enough to be entertained by the current ending. There are objective standards for judging whether something is "artful" or "poetic," and the current ending was clearly neither. Hell, it wasn't even that artful or poetic in the game they stole it from, Deus Ex, though at least there it was *consistent* with the overall tone and themes of the setting. BioWare didn't even accomplish that much.

Unless, of course, they are trolling us and the real ending is still to come. In which case, bravo, it was indeed artful. Though still not poetic.

[Chromie]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

If this game is art I'd love to hear his opinion on Deus Ex 1, Planescape Torment and Ico (series) probably be too much for him to handle.

I've seen that avi before...<_<

What avi? That be a gif! 

<--- usually mucking around in off-topic.

[Dreogan]

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

I've talked to a few people about this and we have come to an agreement. What was missing was a Dragon Age: Origins style epilog where they give you some indication of how the choices you made are going to effect the galaxy as time progresses. They could have done it with silent text boxes like DA:O did or perhaps as a speech from Hacket to the surviving troops.

Something that simple would have gone a good way from taking a mediocre ending and made it good, maybe even great.

I know, right? Or Mass Effect it up and do a bookend to Mass Effect: Genesis. But no, they wanted to leave things bull****-profound.

[The Real Bowser]

Yeah, I felt this way too for the first 5 minutes.  And then I realized how short and unfulfilling it was.  Then, I realized what it could have been and I just stopped caring altogether.

This ending is a **** stain on a krogan toilet compared to what it could have been.

[Flyprdu]

die-yng wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

die-yng wrote...

Everyone has a right to his opinion, but let me say this.

Mass Effect was never about originality.

 



And
OP 2001: A Space Odyseey was beautiful that was art. It gave us much
with so few words. It used music and film but not words to tell a story.
It's amazing and it's an insult to call ME3 art while masterpieces such
as Space Odyssey exist.

So you basically agree with me? Or how should I read this (and it really was difficult to read this, worked only when I tried to quote your post:D) ?

I love Star Control 2.  I wish more games would steal from it.  Matrix Revolutions on the other hand....

[AlexXIV]

Gotta love how they slap the label 'art' on everything nowadays. No matter what people do, it is art. Someone makes a crappy song, art. Someone makes a crappy movie, art. Someone nails 2 french fries at the wall, art. For some reason people nowadays think if they don't understand something it must be art. Sometimes it is just junk you know.

[Walrusninja]

It's done very artistically and it's seriously powerful. The soundtrack and all that are phenomenal but it still doesn't make any sense or give any closure whatsoever, so it kind of defeats the point of the game in the first place.