378 réponses à ce sujet

[kato42]

ZodiEmish wrote...
Am I right?

Sir, you most definitely are.

[chibilombax]

Well...Not much to say but thank you for sharing your thoughts. However I'll have to disagree.

[DeadLetterBox]

The PLC wrote...

they killed off pretty much everyone we've grown to care about throughout the games, with no way to save them. It sucked.

Losing people was not my problem.  I thought the way in which Mordin went out, for example, was absolutely perfect.  My problem was that the ending they gave us was not set up properly.  It seems tacked on and forced.  It should, after 120 hours, seem meaningful and real, even if it isn't what we wanted.

[Xaijin]

KiroKatashi wrote...

Artful and poetic does not mean good.

[PeterG1]

Hey thanks for the responses. I'm new to the community and I know some of my statements sound loaded. I don't mean to be pretentious or academic or anything. And hey, part of me really wants the ending many of you want too! If the option was there I absolutely would have picked it.

As far as the whole "beauty" or "enlightened" aspect (and this ties into the DX: HR argument too), I mean that in the way I feel after having played the game. It's unlike any other series I've ever played. Yes, I do feel frustrated a little, but it's also something else. For lack of a better term, we kind of fall in love with many of these characters, and of course with the series. That hasn't really happened to me with (m)any other games, DX: HR included. With DX: HR it didn't make me feel, and again I feel weird even writing it, but I guess it's true, connected (pun not intended). I was really tied to this universe, to the people, to Shepard. (Don't take that the wrong way haha, I do realize that it IS just a game).

This probably sounds like a cop out but I mean it: much of the jargon in the first post all added up to the way it made me feel and again, I agree with many of you: I'd love to see an ending with the crew having that bottle of brandy, but when Shep plummeted down that crucible (it also happened to me on the other two endings), all these thoughts of my own past relationship with the game sort of came back to me again. The wonderful characters, the places, the adventures. I'd imagine Shep would be thinking the same thing. That's kind of poignant isn't it? It feels kind of nice.

True: one man's picasso is definitely another's poo. And most of us want that great Sci-Fi epic ending. I know, I don't mean to sound like I'm looking down on that or anything. I guess I just had to put into words how the game made me feel, and I think the endings they made were ones that could elicit that kind of response.

[Skyblade012]

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Caz Neerg]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

The PLC wrote...
they killed off pretty much everyone we've grown to care about throughout the games, with no way to save them. It sucked.

Losing people was not my problem.  I thought the way in which Mordin went out, for example, was absolutely perfect.  My problem was that the ending they gave us was not set up properly.  It seems tacked on and forced.  It should, after 120 hours, seem meaningful and real, even if it isn't what we wanted.

I have to agree.  Both of the ways Mordin could go out were gripping and beautifully executed.  It isn't the characters who got proper send-offs over the course of the bulk of the game who are the problem, it's all the ones who were still alive at the end.  No closure for anybody who was on the Normandy.  No closure for any of your surviving ME2 squadmates.  No closure for Wrex.  No closure for a single one of the species whose future you were supposedly altering with your heroic drive for unity.  It really doesn't feel like the "end" is intended to be the end, because it didn't really end.  It just stopped.  There is a difference.

[Jackal7713]

Fine claim its art. If it is art, as a consumer I want to be able to view it as a finished product before I buy it. That means no pre-order, dlc, or online pass. I want a finished product that I can view entirely before I choose to by it. If you go into any art gallery that is how it works.

[Caz Neerg]

Jackal7713 wrote...

Fine claim its art. If it is art, as a consumer I want to be able to view it as a finished product before I buy it. That means no pre-order, dlc, or online pass. I want a finished product that I can view entirely before I choose to by it. If you go into any art gallery that is how it works.

Man has a point.

[DeadLetterBox]

PeterG1 wrote...

Hey thanks for the responses. I'm new to the community and I know some of my statements sound loaded. I don't mean to be pretentious or academic or anything. And hey, part of me really wants the ending many of you want too! If the option was there I absolutely would have picked it.

As far as the whole "beauty" or "enlightened" aspect (and this ties into the DX: HR argument too), I mean that in the way I feel after having played the game. It's unlike any other series I've ever played. Yes, I do feel frustrated a little, but it's also something else. For lack of a better term, we kind of fall in love with many of these characters, and of course with the series. That hasn't really happened to me with (m)any other games, DX: HR included. With DX: HR it didn't make me feel, and again I feel weird even writing it, but I guess it's true, connected (pun not intended). I was really tied to this universe, to the people, to Shepard. (Don't take that the wrong way haha, I do realize that it IS just a game).

This probably sounds like a cop out but I mean it: much of the jargon in the first post all added up to the way it made me feel and again, I agree with many of you: I'd love to see an ending with the crew having that bottle of brandy, but when Shep plummeted down that crucible (it also happened to me on the other two endings), all these thoughts of my own past relationship with the game sort of came back to me again. The wonderful characters, the places, the adventures. I'd imagine Shep would be thinking the same thing. That's kind of poignant isn't it? It feels kind of nice.

True: one man's picasso is definitely another's poo. And most of us want that great Sci-Fi epic ending. I know, I don't mean to sound like I'm looking down on that or anything. I guess I just had to put into words how the game made me feel, and I think the endings they made were ones that could elicit that kind of response.

I'm genuinely glad you liked it.  I wish I had, too.

[Dormitorius]

It's the wrong medium to be "Art". Art most commonly means, something of no purpose. It is simply aestheticly pleasing.

In a movie an ending like this is... somewhat acceptable and easy to gloss over, because the viewer is simply that, a viewer. They are passively engaging in a story. A video game on the other hand is an interactive experience, and a different ball park altogether. 

The viewer in a game becomes actively engaged in the story making choices and determining the narrative. The gamer/Bioware in the first ME1 entered into a reader-writer contract. Wherein we accept that this narrative is driven by our choices, our consequences from our choices and so on. Which will somehow greatly affect the ending in the last game. In doing so we accept the story's direction and give it our time to play. This contract, once established MUST NEVER CHANGE in any medium.

Now the way the game is structured makes us all feel very attached to our character since each Shepard is "our" Shepard. We control him/her, we make his/her decisions, we project ourselves onto Shepard which does not happen in movies. At least not as intensely as it would be in a game. The fact that we are not allowed catharsis, or even given a proper epilogue. Is the very mark of bad writing. It is something every writer learns in Writing 101. Our Shepard's story does not close properly and because the gamer is not allowed a proper release, the pent up emotion that was to be released via a proper ending is instead turned into anger and hate towards the author, Bioware.

In the end all of your 5 years making choices are pointless. It doesn't matter if you saved the Council, the Collector base, Wrex, Ashley/Kaiden, or the team in ME2. It doesn't matter if you united the Quarians and Geth, or cured the genophage. At the end of ME3 your choices and consequences are thrown out the window, and instead you are force fed philosophy that doesn't conform to it's own logic. 

Since were in taking about endings Inception had an artistic ending, it's the reason people are still debating the ending, but the reason they're not going crazy like gamers are about ME3 is simple. Inception ends with most loose ends tied. We know what happens to the characters. We are given closure. The viewer now has enjoyed the story and had it brought to a proper close. THEN, we are tossed the spinning top. That is proper use of ambuguity and writing technique. ME3 fails to give closure, and then tosses ambuguity at an already confused gamer.

I'm sorry OP, but ME3's ending is not artsy or poetic in any sense. It is a lesson in how to not end a story and bad writing.

Modifié par Dormitorius, 15 mars 2012 - 07:17 .

[Maria Caliban]

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Modern art is over a hundred and fifty years old now. Are you really going to claim that Vincent van Gogh and Salvidor Dali aren't good by any stretch of the imagination?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 mars 2012 - 07:17 .

[Arthorius]

That's no art. It's BS.

[locsphere]

No offense... But If I want to see art I will go to a Museum. I buy games for entertainment and ENJOYMENT... When people are paying you to keep coming out with these games... Its about making what is synoumous with the rest of the story you told. Not taking artistic chances in the hopes your fans will get it.

NEW DLC is coming I don't know why I even bother with these topics anymore. This thread just seemed silly.

You like art? Grab an Easel and knock yourself out. I am playing KOTOR because I enjoy that. I also have a thing for Bastilas accent.

[Caz Neerg]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Modern art is over a hundred and fifty years old now. Are you really going to claim that Vincent van Gogh and Salvidor Dali aren't good by any stretch of the imagination?

I think when the average layman refers to "modern art" they mean things like a canvas convered in nothing but white paint, or the Virgin Mary sculpted out of feces.  You know, the kinds of "art" that no normal person is capable of taking seriously.  They aren't using the term according to it's technical (correct) meaning.

[Statulos]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Modern art is over a hundred and fifty years old now. Are you really going to claim that Vincent van Gogh and Salvidor Dali aren't good by any stretch of the imagination?

Even worse; we all know Warhol is universally hated because he wanted to be deep and complicated like Walter Benjamin.

[Missy_MI]

PeterG1 wrote...
But we didn't get that, we got something...memorable. As Hudson said in that interview, it is memorable. But something else is happening too. A video game did what a movie can't do. Not now anyway. It's insane! Think about it, a video game blockbuster franchise stepped deeply into the arena of “poetic art.”

Hi Peter.  If you are feeling brave could you please post again and explain a little bit more why you feel the ending is 'poetic art' or link to where you may have already done that?

I had the opposite reaction you did to the endings, but I'm really curious to know why other fans feel the way you do.  Did just knowing that  life continued in the Mass Effect universe in some form leave you feeling hopeful?  Or do more philisophical and open endings resonate with you more in general?

[IdTheDemon]

By art you mean 3 things made in photoshop, each with a different colored filter right?

[Dreogan]

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

And this... is poetry.

[Caz Neerg]

Philosophical? Seriously? Another word that shouldn't be applied to this ending.

[Jackal7713]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Modern art is over a hundred and fifty years old now. Are you really going to claim that Vincent van Gogh and Salvidor Dali aren't good by any stretch of the imagination?

He can't claim this is modern art. lol  The modern art movement took place roughly from the 1860s to the 1970s. It could be inspired by the modern art movement, but its not modern art.

[coolerdude]

look, the ending is great. Great! but only if it was seen without context. If I didn't play the game and knew what it meant, I'd probably be singing Bioware praises too.

But it cannot be taken in like that. The ending sucks because of what it means based on context given by the rest of the game and the 2 games before it.

If its considered "Art", which I wholly support, the game must be considered "Art" as a whole. You cannot take out parts of a game and say "That part specifically is art". Even though the rest of the game is AWESOME, the problem is that it gives context to the ending, which made the ending SUCK. Thus as a whole, the ending taken by itself may be considered awesome art, but the game as a whole is a horrible piece.

You know what are great art pieces? Flower and Journey. Great from beginning to end. Awesome art as a whole.

Modifié par coolerdude, 15 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Skyblade012]

Caz Neerg wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

The ending is modern art.

Concerned with "making an impact" and "being deep". Instead of being something people enjoy, are entertained by, or that is just good, by any stretch of the imagination.

Modern art is over a hundred and fifty years old now. Are you really going to claim that Vincent van Gogh and Salvidor Dali aren't good by any stretch of the imagination?

I think when the average layman refers to "modern art" they mean things like a canvas convered in nothing but white paint, or the Virgin Mary sculpted out of feces.  You know, the kinds of "art" that no normal person is capable of taking seriously.  They aren't using the term according to it's technical (correct) meaning.

True.  I prefer using a different word to describe it ("garbage" or "trash" are favorites of mine), but when I say modern art, people usually clue in on what I mean.

And, honestly, I never was a fan of Dali, but I still recognize that the man produced some good art.

Just as I know that a white room with blinking lights is not, no matter how much award money it wins.

[Gigaheart]

whoa! what have u been smoking man? i want some too!