378 réponses à ce sujet

[Myrmedus]

What kills the OP's argument for me is that there were multiple ending paths and so the perfect opportunity to give everyone what they wanted. The OP may have been happy with what he got, sure, but why not simply have that as one of the endings?

[UKJackMan]

Its the culmination of many hundreds of hours contemplation amongst the developers resulting in them loosing sight of the fact that its a video game sales re-playability and happy gamers is what counts in this money making business.

EDI.....If you shoot yourself in the foot, you harm yourself in some way by doing something stupid or making a silly mistake.

Modifié par UKJackMan, 15 mars 2012 - 11:26 .

[Asharad Hett]

As art, it's amateurish.

[Myrmedus]

A great example of how to do it right was a recent BW game in fact: Dragon Age’s ending. What happened with the Archdemon completely changed based upon your decisions: whether your character died, whether you all lived, whether Loghain died, whether Loghain was there at all, whether Alistair died for you etc. and each of these led to a different ending and a different epilogue; which is how it should be, for this is the entire point of multiple endings, not to copy-paste the same ending twice.

At first I actually sacrificed my Warden. And I felt very sad, the whole scene when he kills the Archdemon really hit me, but at least it was my choice and I could experience a different tone of ending if I so chose. This was how to do it. This was where they could’ve made their “artful” ending as one of the choices, if they’d wanted.

With Mass Effect 3 they had even more freedom, being the last in the trilogy and yet the ending(s) are significantly more confined.

[Qutayba]

Wait a moment. OP, that was a very intelligent post, and thank you for representing the pro-ending point of view in an intelligent, thoughtful and respectful way. I really wish people wouldn't flame down posts that are sincerely and non-trollingly trying to offer an another point of view.

There are some Big Ideas in the ending, and they're very thought-provoking. However, I don't think entertaining and enlightening need to be mutually-exclusive. I think they could have done both, and I think they got very close to doing both.

Maybe a better ending-cutscene? Maybe better Star-Child dialogue? Maybe a slightly-happier option at the end? They were just so close to a flawless masterpiece, in my opinion.

[Nightdragon8]

heh, even as Art, the "Art" was ripped off a wallpaper....

And tali's face was ripped off some random person's facebook page....

the Credits took longer than the ending cutscences... and the epiologe translates into "Plz buy more DLC..."

[JamesT91]

I like the idea of the ending, sometimes sad is beautiful and that was the case with my shepard sacrifice, but they do need to do something about the squadmates. not only did they somehow magically get from earth onto the normandy with joker, but none of them got any closure

[DarkBladeX98]

Yeah its art all right.
Straight up RGB in your face.

[zerobounds]

The ending was terrible because it was not the ending.

That is why, not because its artsy, not because it wasnt happy, not because we deserve better but because it. was. not. the. ending.

[HBC Dresden]

Ending was Indoctrination

[tornblade]

If the whole game had been presented in some kind of indie-artsy fashion like you see the ending as being from the beginning, I wouldn't have played to begin with. I play video games for pure entertainment. For enlightenment I turn to meditation. I'm not going to parrot what others have stated, re-stated, and continue to do so despite my feelings being very similar if not the same. But please stop trying to tell me that I don't get it, or that the ending needs to be bittersweet, or anything like that. It has *nothing* to do with any of that. I felt no closure at the end.

If it's indoctrination, I've got my own gripes about that.

Modifié par tornblade, 15 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[Nekroso22]

I respect your opinion and I'm glad you enjoyed the ending.

I wasn't asking myself deep or thought-provoking questions at the end of this game. Read "The Lady, or the Tiger?" or "House of Mirth" for that. Those pose questions that use the backstory of their own narrative as reinforcing elements.

The questions I was asking myself at the end of Mass Effect had nothing to do with the relation between synthetics and organics, the ramifications of a massive machine intelligence acting as an arbiter of change, or the ultimate futility of choice.

Rather, the questions I was asking myself at the end of Mass Effect had to do with simple lapses in the plot. This alone killed any interest I had in analyzing the ending. Why didn't Sovereign activate the Catalyst in ME1? Why was Joker speeding through the relay with all of my crew members, even after seeing at least one of them die in Sovereign's big scary laser? Why does the Catalyst appear to Shepard as the child we see in the beginning of the game? Why was that child so important to Shepard, more so than Mordin or Miranda or any other of his closest allies who died?

Personal taste aside, these things raised mundane questions, not meaningful ones. The "Big Ideas" that the ending tried to encapsulate were rushed and there was no set up for their introduction. If there were hints at an overarching philosophical conflict between synthetics and organics in the other games they were downplayed severely.

[Sarevok Synder]

Oh look, we've got Americans next top artist here! Yeah I love the artistic direction of choice disguised as colour. It's amazing the difference watching the exact same video sequence, only with an alternate colour filter!
 
Yes OP; you're so right......

[Jackal7713]

Bioware uses artistic elements to produce their products of entertainment. This means it is not a work of art. We will never be seeing a copy of ME 3 in Musée du Louvre. 15 years from now, you'll have a better chance to find it in the dollar bin at Gamestop.

[Winterfly]

This was like three years in high school and then you just got kicked out and had no idea what really happended.

[Andur4]

Yeah it's memorable alright. But not in the good way. Good for you if you think it's art, the rest of us feel it's lazily done and badly-written.

[xxZealouSocitYxx]

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

[zarnk567]

Every time is see this threads title I get mad......

[VonVerrikan]

PeterG1 wrote...

 I just finished the game. Oh man, there's so much to say. I'm so torn over everything even now I'm starting to doubt what I've written below. Haha...

This game is Art. And it's a blockbuster.

I know everyone is posting their thoughts and this thread will probably quickly get swept under the pages. I'll try to keep this brief and if any of the bioware guys happen to see, well, like the millions of us out there commenting, I would love of course to hear your honest thoughts. I know I won't (I shouldn't) hear any explanations and literary analyses, not from the BW developers, anyway, I doubt we'll hear much from them on that regardless. But on the concept of gaming as art and, what I have to say below, man, I'd love to hear thoughts:

The ending was poetic. It was beautiful. I sat and watched the ending with a feeling of satisfaction and, in a weird way, sadness. These feelings didn't come from the game alone; if I remove myself from the game a little, I realize that this “feeling” that I got from the game is the same sort of feeling I get when I finish a really great novel, or a poem, a great film, or amazing music. It's sort of an enlightened feeling. I've never had that happen before in a video game. Certainly not with a space opera, anyway.

There's a lot of arguments running the forums right now and both BW and EA are absolutely listening. I used to work at a big media company (in Chicago) and our VP knew a number of guys who worked at EA LA. The type of feedback, ehh maybe not from us here in the forums, but from the press and from things like the Child's Play drive, are definitely getting their attention. But regardless of whether or not this attention is going to convince BW
to create a new ending or some type of “happily ever after” comic remains to be seen.

But I can with confidence say that the endings we are presented with were crafted from the hearts of those crazies up in Edmonton, and they mean the best with what they made. These endings were important to them and they were made artistically, not a PR stunt, not a way to sell more DLC or anything along those lines.

The meat of what I want to get it with this: This is a blockbuster game, this is a huge franchise, and because of that, there's a very large number of players who fork over very large sums of cash to be entertained. Enlightenment is awesome, but to most of us, we really just want to be entertained. As do most anyone who loves to read or watch a movie or listen to great music.

So it's a tough call for the BW guys. Make an ending that's enlightening, or make one that's, err, entertaining! If we were playing Dear Esther (a little indie game from Scotland) we'd expect a beautiful, enlightening ending. But many of us don't want or expect such an ending for ME3. Because, to many of us (not all of us, I'm still torn myself) we just want something fun. I won't lie, I'm sad I never got to have that second bottle of Brandy with Chakwas. I never got my Shep to see Miranda again. Ah! It aches right now just to think about it. Wow, a video game has never
had that kind of profound effect on me as a player. And from the sounds of it, many of you too, fellow gamers!

Let's look at a movie as a metaphor: there's a little Austrian film called The White Ribbon, which has an ambiguous, difficult, and yes, enlightening ending that leaves the viewer exhausted. What would happen if Michael Bay's Transformer's franchise ended in a way like the White Ribbon ended (this is just an example, ANY movie that has an ambiguous and poetic ending could count)? It'd be catastrophic! Us viewers would hate it! We'd be profoundly upset! I doubt Paramount would change the ending, though. For one thing, history has shown thatin movies anyway, the press isn't kind to that (like Heaven's Gate in 1979—they changed the movie to catastrophic results). It could show the artist as being either weak or not having a full vision of his/her work.

BW probably knows that their franchise is much more akin to Transformers than to the White Ribbon. Again, ME is huge around the world. So, yes, the easy and perhaps even preferred way would be to give us the ending we want. We want to be entertained here as we do with Transformers. They know who their target audience is and they probably knew the ending we would have liked to have seen.

But we didn't get that, we got something...memorable. As Hudson said in that interview, it is memorable. But something else is happening too. A video game did what a movie can't do. Not now anyway. It's insane! Think about it, a video game blockbuster franchise stepped deeply into the arena of “poetic art.” What types of endings we'd only see in a game like Dear Esther is now, here, at Transformers level. That's a big thing. It's not a game about beating the reapers anymore. It's about life and philosophy and love and fear I mean the abstractions go on. Other games have tried this (I think Deus Ex HR tried it. Not well, it was dramatically and plot-wise weak) and failed. BW didn't fail at all; our anger and sadness is all a part of what happened in-game. I think
that's why so much passion is behind it, at least partially.

I don't think changing the ending would be for the best, but it could happen (like I said, I still want that brandy with Chakwas). I also think that we so badly WANT the ending we imagined we'd choose in our 30+ hours of playing the game, we're forming fabricated fantasies of what happens at the end. That's fine by BW, we can debate it forever; again, I imagine Hudson and the gang probably get a smile from that (as would any artist). But as we argue all this, think about it a little more outside the game, look at the industry and video games and look at what BW did here.

Again, this thread will probably quickly get swept over, but if you read it this far, thanks very much, I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts. In a weird way, and again it might be the profound effect of the game on me, I feel oddly at peace now with my own internal struggle over that dang ending after having written this. So, yea: thanks BW, regardless how I feel about it, it most certainly is memorable (in more ways than one).

Edit: Sorry weird formatting issues had to fix.

Nice try, Bioware employee. 

[Evil_medved]

Nope its a piece of crap. I am paying customer and i pay for entertainment, not for some stupid abstract hipster "art" nonsense.


Also calling complete shameless copy of Deus Ex 1 ending is kinda over the line.

[Jackal7713]

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

I'm sorry bud, but I'm sick of people calling me entitled becuase I'm a paying customer that is unhappy with a finished product and that I have no right to voice a complaint. Or when I voice my complaint I'm acting "entitled" and that I'm encroaching on Biowares artistic rights. Its a total BS argument.

[Sarevok Synder]

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

Pointing out obvious flaws is not hating. No one's  beliefs are above criticism.

[saracen16]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

Pointing out obvious flaws is not hating. No one's  beliefs are above criticism.

They're not flaws. They're not plot holes. Who the **** are you to say that it is "obvious"? Why don't you tell us what these flaws are instead of acting so high and mighty?

[billida]

it is art.
http://www.lefigaro....s-en-france.php

[iamthedave3]

saracen16 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

xxZealouSocitYxx wrote...

Come on guys. Be more mature and just accept his opinion even if he disagrees with us. Different strokes for different folks. There's no point in hating on him for liking the game ending.

Pointing out obvious flaws is not hating. No one's  beliefs are above criticism.

They're not flaws. They're not plot holes. Who the **** are you to say that it is "obvious"? Why don't you tell us what these flaws are instead of acting so high and mighty?

Try reading one of about fifty threads listing them, or multiple articles on multiple sites, or looking up youtube videos listing them. It's tiresome repeating the same things over and over.