455 réponses à ce sujet

[Beast919]

Naarad wrote...

Reposting it, since it's just being ignored. Apparently they don't like the answer if it makes sense:

Mcfly616 wrote...

Beast919 we are in the same shoes bro. I've asked politely on about 10 different threads for somebody from the camp.that is opposed to the indoc/dream to just give me their explanation/perspective/point of view on the scene where Shepard WAKES UP(meaning he was unconscious!) covered in rubble in the street where he was blasted by Harbinger.....no one says anything. As if my post is invisible to them. I've said it once and I'll say it again, the nay-sayers are the ones reaching for straws. The have no details other than "bad writing". They say nothing as if the scene does not exist to them. One guy did come to me with "he fell to earth on the citadel". I was in complete awe, that he considered Shep falling from orbit on an exploding space station, surviving atmosphere re-entry and impact more logical than Shep just waking up from being unconscious where Harbinger beamed him.....if that's a theory they wanna roll with, than alrighty then. I feel less intelligent just hearing it lol I'm open to more explanations from the nay sayers on the Waking Up scene

He doesn't wake up (that's your assumption). His body spasms.  That's it. It's a common spasm that happens when (and that's why the focus on his chest) his lungs begin breathing again. OH. THE SHOCKER.

How does this make sense.  What does this tease.  You're saying, simply, that the whole point of the scene...was there is no point.  Its a spasm.  A spasm.  That is the last image we get of Shepard.  A spasm.  Seriously, wtf.

[Mcfly616]

You don't need to repost Naarad. I read it and immediately disregarded it considering there is no logic in showing a body having spasms in the last scene...I'll politely agree to disagree...I did see your post tho

[Naarad]

Beast919 wrote...
How does this make sense.  What does this tease.  You're saying, simply, that the whole point of the scene...was there is no point.  Its a spasm.  A spasm.  That is the last image we get of Shepard.  A spasm.  Seriously, wtf.

It is what it is. And you know it. Sorry to disappoint, but you've got to accept it. There's no teasing, it's just a cliffhanger. An unanswered scene. The point is that we might have not seen the last from Shepard. That is. 

Mcfly616 wrote...

You don't need to repost Naarad. I read it and immediately disregarded it considering there is no logic in showing a body having spasms in the last scene...I'll politely agree to disagree...I did see your post tho

 

Of course there's logic. They want to show you that Shepard might manage to make it through all that mess. That's the definition of cliffhanger.

Modifié par Naarad, 15 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[soundhole]

Beast919 wrote...

Why would Harby need to fight the fleets?  The threat you posed was enough to bring Harby *and a squad of reapers* OUT OF ORBIT to come fight you.  And then he leaves before he's done?  What threat do the fleets really pose?

as for 2-4) The fate of the Galaxy is at stake, you're barely standing, someone is alive on the other side of the radio CALLING FOR A RETREAT.....and you remain silent.  Not to mention, in some playthroughs your squad are still alive (i.e. you do not walk past their corspes) - where are they? Why don't they help? Why don't you ask them for help?  You're barely standing!

5) What is wrong with this point - what is wrong with it being absolutely absured that you'd be teleported into a one-way hallway full of bodies....that leads to another one-way bridge...that leads to another one-way bridge with a random console on it that solves all your problems....which Anderson has *also* managed to find within 1 minute (despite entering after you, unarmed and unopposed).

6) Anderson is not armed, and throughout *ALL* the other cutscenes across *ALL* 3 games, people are armed in the cutscenes if they're armed, period.  Anderson is not.  You see his back, you see his front, he is not armed.

7) We know nothing happens at all when TIM shoots himself, even though Shep & And bro it out for a solid 2 minutes while he lies rotting on the ground next to him.  Nothing happens...at all....even though THE ENTIRE REAPER FLEET KNOWS YOU ARE IN THEIR BASE ABOUT TO **** THEIR **** UP.

8) They have an entire army guarding their most prized possession (except, oh wait, Harby just up and leaves this key defensive position), and yet not a single thing inside to protect it.  Yeah, ok.  Brilliant.

9) The fact that he contacts Hackett isn't all that weird in of itself.  What makes no sense is its A) Out of nowhere, Shepard himself doesn't initiate any contact with anyone throughout the entire sequence, and C) After being told he is ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE ENTIRE RELAY SYSTEM, he chooses not to send a single warning to anyone.  Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  Ok.

Yeah, everything post-beam sucks ape-d!ck.  None of that is evidence for anything but bad writing on Bioware's part.

[Mcfly616]

This went so far over peoples heads that they really believe that Bioware would make the last scene of the entire trilogy of Shepard having spasms....like wow....can you pass whatever it is you're smoking?!

[Beast919]

Naarad wrote...

Beast919 wrote...
How does this make sense.  What does this tease.  You're saying, simply, that the whole point of the scene...was there is no point.  Its a spasm.  A spasm.  That is the last image we get of Shepard.  A spasm.  Seriously, wtf.

It is what it is. And you know it. Sorry to disappoint, but you've got to accept it. There's no teasing, it's just a cliffhanger. An unanswered scene. The point is that we might have not seen the last from Shepard. That is. 

Holy balls, if we haven't seen the last of Shepard, use your brain, WHAT COMES NEXT?

How did he survive? Where is he? How is Earth not completely ruined by a giant space station colliding with its surface?

What on earth does it tease?

[Naarad]

Mcfly616 wrote...

This went so far over peoples heads that they really believe that Bioware would make the last scene of the entire trilogy of Shepard having spasms....like wow....can you pass whatever it is you're smoking?!

You aren't this thick, are you? The last scene of the trilogy is Stargazer's discussion.

[Beast919]

soundhole wrote...

Yeah, everything post-beam sucks ape-d!ck.  None of that is evidence for anything but bad writing on Bioware's part.

This is where its amazing that your camp is this thick-headedly stubborn.

We're not saying this isn't a possibility.  Its always possible for someoen to **** something up.  But the odds of that happening on this scale, on this high-quality of a product, are extremely remote.

Simply saying it could be evidence of bad writing on Bioware's part does not exclude the possibility that its evidence of something else.  And saying its evidence of bad writing just cause is the dumbest argument that exists.

[Mcfly616]

So quick to jump to conclusions when they're hinting at something coming and to "be patient" and "if you only knew"....if thats not proof enough than you're just hopeless lol I don't know what to tell you....Naarad knows all and is the final word on the matter I guess....it is what it is Beast919. Cuz Naarad said so haha....this is the explanations we were speaking of a few pages back lmao great logic.....

[sorentoft]

@Beast919 I already said what I wanted to say, I am not going to drawn into a pointless straw-man discussion.

[PlumPaul93]

Beast919 wrote...We're not saying this isn't a possibility.  Its always possible for someoen to **** something up.  But the odds of that happening on this scale, on this high-quality of a product, are extremely remote.

And the odds of them purposely giving a bad ending because they can release ending DLC are?

[Beast919]

sorentoft wrote...

@Beast919 I already said what I wanted to say, I am not going to drawn into a pointless straw-man discussion.

You haven't really taken part in the discussion at all.  All you've said is we currently have a bad, seemingly poor-written ending.  You've given no explanation for why, no explanation for why not.  Simply the fact that what we have currently is a poor effort.

And I can't disagree given what we have.  But I will say that viewed as a whole, there is something more to it, something missing.  And until someone can simply state what the goal of the teaser footage is, beyond the obvious "Shepard lives herp derp", the most logical reason for its existence will be the Indoc theory.

[Tsantilas]

What I don't understand is why you people think it's better for it to be an actual indoctrination theory and that the game is actually unfinished? How is Bioware charging extra for a "real ending" DLC any better than it just being ****ty writing?

Anyway... until we get said DLC or an official statement from Bioware, I expect pretty much anything.

[Mcfly616]

I don't know what you don't understand about Bioware literally saying ME3 is the last game with Shepard....therefore there is no reason for a cliffhanger to another sequal. The cliffhanger is for dlc. I'll take Biowares official statement, and you're "cliffhanger" and that's all I need to say that there will be endgame dlc.....apparently Bioware is just going to have to write it on the wall before people get it.....I suppose even then, some of them won't....

[Beast919]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Beast919 wrote...We're not saying this isn't a possibility.  Its always possible for someoen to **** something up.  But the odds of that happening on this scale, on this high-quality of a product, are extremely remote.

And the odds of them purposely giving a bad ending because they can release ending DLC are?

lol, this is EA we're talking about, right?  Even if its a free DLC, they still win their war on used games as the way they'll distribute the "free" dlc is via the Alliance Network, which you only get for free if you buy new.

Not to mention the obscene amount of press they're getting.  I think they did not anticipate the severe backlash they're getting (no matter what turns out to be the truth), but they intended for it to be a topic of debate that brought the game's name up.

And if they do charge for the "real" ending, then, well, that's your answer right there.

[Ieldra]

Beast919 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
I've asked politely on about 10 different threads for somebody from the camp.that is opposed to the indoc/dream to just give me their explanation/perspective/point of view on the scene where Shepard WAKES UP(meaning he was unconscious!) covered in rubble in the street where he was blasted by Harbinger.....no one says anything.

There is no indication of where exactly this takes place. It signifies that Shepard has survived. Nothing more, nothing less.

But as I said, the main problem with this is that most players will never see that scene, because it's so difficult to get the required EMS. At the moment, it's impossible without MP. Which means that Bioware has lured a majority of players into a false sense of having won. I do not think that is plausible.

If the ending sequence is not real and there's something coming after, then there will be a way to go on regardless of which choice you made. As long as you weren't killed by TIM, that is.

The fact that its so rare (in terms of what % of the players *actually* saw that ending and didn't youtube it) defines it as teaser footage.  Bonus, special footage.  Which has some kind of *intent* behind it.

Intent? Yes. Shepard survives. That's it. Really. That's all there is to it. You just ignore the fact that your line of reasoning completely disappears when you take the rarity of this scene into account. You think Bioware would lure players into a false sense of having won, only to come back later with "haha, you lose"? Think again. That's just you in denial and disregarding that other choices may have some rationale behind it. Switch out of it. If anyone's indoctrinated, it's you.

Also, thats the crazy weird genius behind the theory.  2/3 of the choices end in the *player* choosing indoctrination, and even if you pick the right option, if you haven't exhausted *all* your options, you still don't manage to survive long enough to do something about it (in theory).  In essence, they're simply proving the impossible odds against the mission.

You don't get it. There are no wrong choices. All of the ME trilogy is made around that concept, and if something's really dangerous, it's so damned obvious that nobody in their right mind will overlook it. Rememeber Morinth? That was one such scene.

If you want to believe in the greatest mind**** in the history of gaming, that's your prerogative. But I know phrases like "that's the crazy weird genius behind the theory." Talk with conspiracy theorists, and it won't be half an hour until something like this comes up. People will believe anything if they want to. But it would make Bioware the greatest deceiver in the history of gaming, and I do not find that plausible.

[soundhole]

Beast919 wrote...

soundhole wrote...

Yeah, everything post-beam sucks ape-d!ck.  None of that is evidence for anything but bad writing on Bioware's part.

This is where its amazing that your camp is this thick-headedly stubborn.

We're not saying this isn't a possibility.  Its always possible for someoen to **** something up.  But the odds of that happening on this scale, on this high-quality of a product, are extremely remote.

Simply saying it could be evidence of bad writing on Bioware's part does not exclude the possibility that its evidence of something else.  And saying its evidence of bad writing just cause is the dumbest argument that exists.

Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor) is the English equivalent of the Latin lex parsimoniae --- the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Occam's_razor

It's simple logic, home-fry.  There is no evidence of indoctrination, it's just the fanciful pleating of sheep grasping at a reason why one of the greatest sci-fi epics in history landed flat on its face 10-minutes before it ended.  It isn't that there cannot be evidence of indoctirnation; it's that all of the evidence you yourself have brought up only points to bad writing and nothing else.  "It could be something else if you use your imagination" is a silly and irrational thing to say.

Modifié par soundhole, 15 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[Mcfly616]

Thick? Yeah, in my pants bro....if you're referring to thick headed, than just look at what you just posted and the look in the mirror. Now repeat: Thick Headed lol...the star gazer is the last scene eh? Lol Wow

[PlumPaul93]

Beast919 wrote...And if they do charge for the "real" ending, then, well, that's your answer right there.

They'll absolutely charge for it, because they didn't have plans for an ending DLC.

Modifié par PlumPaul82393, 15 mars 2012 - 10:47 .

[Ieldra]

Beast919 wrote...

sorentoft wrote...
@Beast919 I already said what I wanted to say, I am not going to drawn into a pointless straw-man discussion.

You haven't really taken part in the discussion at all.  All you've said is we currently have a bad, seemingly poor-written ending.  You've given no explanation for why, no explanation for why not.  Simply the fact that what we have currently is a poor effort.

That's because the explanation *is* bad writing and budget constraints. They just threw some scenes together at the last minute and they were so deep in their work that they didn't think about how inconsistent they would appear when viewed by the audience. You know, long work hours and living and breathing your project for months can do that to you.

[Beast919]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Beast919 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
I've asked politely on about 10 different threads for somebody from the camp.that is opposed to the indoc/dream to just give me their explanation/perspective/point of view on the scene where Shepard WAKES UP(meaning he was unconscious!) covered in rubble in the street where he was blasted by Harbinger.....no one says anything.

There is no indication of where exactly this takes place. It signifies that Shepard has survived. Nothing more, nothing less.

But as I said, the main problem with this is that most players will never see that scene, because it's so difficult to get the required EMS. At the moment, it's impossible without MP. Which means that Bioware has lured a majority of players into a false sense of having won. I do not think that is plausible.

If the ending sequence is not real and there's something coming after, then there will be a way to go on regardless of which choice you made. As long as you weren't killed by TIM, that is.

The fact that its so rare (in terms of what % of the players *actually* saw that ending and didn't youtube it) defines it as teaser footage.  Bonus, special footage.  Which has some kind of *intent* behind it.

Intent? Yes. Shepard survives. That's it. Really. That's all there is to it. You just ignore the fact that your line of reasoning completely disappears when you take the rarity of this scene into account. You think Bioware would lure players into a false sense of having won, only to come back later with "haha, you lose"? Think again. That's just you in denial and disregarding that other choices may have some rationale behind it. Switch out of it. If anyone's indoctrinated, it's you.

Also, thats the crazy weird genius behind the theory.  2/3 of the choices end in the *player* choosing indoctrination, and even if you pick the right option, if you haven't exhausted *all* your options, you still don't manage to survive long enough to do something about it (in theory).  In essence, they're simply proving the impossible odds against the mission.

You don't get it. There are no wrong choices. All of the ME trilogy is made around that concept, and if something's really dangerous, it's so damned obvious that nobody in their right mind will overlook it. Rememeber Morinth? That was one such scene.

If you want to believe in the greatest mind**** in the history of gaming, that's your prerogative. But I know phrases like "that's the crazy weird genius behind the theory." Talk with conspiracy theorists, and it won't be half an hour until something like this comes up. People will believe anything if they want to. But it would make Bioware the greatest deceiver in the history of gaming, and I do not find that plausible.

Its amusing to me that people still can't understand  that I'm not selling the Indoc theory as the be-all end-all.  But its currently the only option other than "Bioware simply forgot how to do anything right whatsoever in the last 5 minutes and included random, inexplicable teaser footage for no reason."

And as for tricking players into thinking they won? I think its fairly safe to say that no matter what people picked, no one felt like they won.  No matter what you choose, galatic civilization, as you know it, is ruined, with some species probably going extinct.

All I'm asking for is a reason for any of the nonsense happening other than "bad writing."  If thats what it is, thats what it is, but we can all agree thats an option.

Modifié par Beast919, 15 mars 2012 - 10:58 .

[FabricatedWookie]

Flaming is unnecessary and ultimately fruitless. Hold the line.

[Beast919]

soundhole wrote...

Beast919 wrote...

soundhole wrote...

Yeah, everything post-beam sucks ape-d!ck.  None of that is evidence for anything but bad writing on Bioware's part.

This is where its amazing that your camp is this thick-headedly stubborn.

We're not saying this isn't a possibility.  Its always possible for someoen to **** something up.  But the odds of that happening on this scale, on this high-quality of a product, are extremely remote.

Simply saying it could be evidence of bad writing on Bioware's part does not exclude the possibility that its evidence of something else.  And saying its evidence of bad writing just cause is the dumbest argument that exists.

Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor) is the English equivalent of the Latin lex parsimoniae --- the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions and thereby offers the simplest explanation of the effect.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Occam's_razor

It's simple logic, home-fry.  There is no evidence of indoctrination, it's just the fanciful pleating of sheep grasping at a reason why one of the greatest sci-fi epics in history landed flat on its face 10-minutes before it ended.  It isn't that there cannot be evidence of indoctirnation; it's that all of the evidence you yourself have brought up only points to bad writing and nothing else.  "It could be something else if you use your imagination" is a silly and irrational thing to say.

lol, this argument is so awful, and so funny at the same time cause you think you're fancy for pointing to some latin.

when a single theory explains *MULTIPLE* points of absurdity, all in one, and is countered by .... well, relatively nothing (there's the VI on Thessia but thats been dealt with previously in this same thread), it is not 'fanciful pleating'.

Its like you've never, ever, been through what detectives do every single time they approach a crime scene.  Do you not understand the definition of "clue"?  Do you not for one second think that someone (or some company) did something you weren't expecting?  Are you *that* pig-headed that you completely rule out any alternative simply "because"?

The teaser is out there for a reason.  On one hand, we have .... no reason at all, its nonsense, Shepard is SPASMING!.  On the other we have a theory that also explains quite a bit of the nonsense that is enraging this entire forum.  Hmm... Tough choice.

[111987]

Can someone in this thread maybe help me understand something about the Indoctrination theory?

If it's all just a vision, a trick by Harbinger, why is the part about all the Mass Relays being blown up a part of that vision? As in, what does bringing that up accomplish? After all the Relays will be destroyed no matter what, so it's not like it factored into Shepard's decision making. The relays were toast regardless.

[Naarad]

Beast919, you're in denial. And it's sad. You're raging towards people that are just pointing you to what we understand disproves your insane theory.

Yes, Shepard in the 20-second clip is spasming, coming back to life. If you don't want to see it it's just because you're in denial arguing that that is nonsensical, as opposed to your theory that has 3000 points on wild assumptions. Come on.