35 réponses à ce sujet

[statistx]

Disliked ending for being non-conclusive.

[Sharrack]

kongenial wrote...

Three colors and way to short.
Now where is my extension cord.

Modifié par Sharrack, 15 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Mystical_Gaming]

I agree with you for the lack of closure part the most. Even if the ending was 'happy' the quick cut to the credits made it depressing. Then again none of the choices I had or read up on seem like one I'd want my shepard to choose really. I felt trapped at the ending not really wanting to choose either.

[Feixeno]

Don't forget the Theme of Self-Determination being dropped at the last moment.

The Mass Effect trilogy had  the ongoing motif of self-determination. Shepard's backstory, Tali not wanting to do the traditional pilgrimage and actually make a difference, Garrus being a maverick, Joker overcoming his disability, Wrex being different from other Krogan, Ashley being self-possessed despite her grandfather's disgrace, Kaiden having mastered his handicaps that crippled most of his generation of biotics users, Liara being a scholarly hermit and not following her Mother's footsteps, Anderson not listening to the council and supporting Shepard, Miranda's break away from her father and helping her sister, Jack's escape and lifestyle, Grunt being the deviant solution to the genophage, Mordin's whole character, Tali coming into her own, the Geth as a race in ME2, Zaeed escaping death, Samara's whole path to right her own wrongs in her children, Morinth's counter story to that, the Engineers getting canned for speaking out and sticking to their guns, Thane breaking away from his life as an assassin to die having done more good than bad, the whole ending of ME2 where Shepard and his crew's skills determine where they live or die and in what manner they succeed. I could go on and on but the point is that nowhere in the game's cadre of companions is there anyone that just follows orders and the status quo. We're actually shown numerous times that the people that just accept the rule or the baseline are doing the bad thing. Hell, indoctrination itself is the manifest of giving up the right to self-determine. Where the ending goes entirely off the rails is that it entirely ignores this motif and presents three versions of capitulation. Rather than any kind of actual choice, we are presented with three variations of surrender. It's not even remotely connected to the overall theme of the games and it's awful for that reason.

It's like if Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade had ended with them getting to Petra and the ****s saying Mr. Jones, I'm sorry, you need to leave now and rather than fighting or trying to get the grail he just went "eh, fine." and left.

Normandy Crew: The Normandy Crew's escape during the end is not consistent. Why would the Normandy Crew suddenly have an 11th hour cowardice and abandon Commander Shepard? Admiral Hackett knows you're alive somehow, why wouldn't they? 

If you saved the entire Normandy Crew in ME2, it sets the prescedent that anyone serving on the Normandy never leaves a crewmember behind. With the entire squad on the Normandy at the end, what kept it from assaulting the Crucible to save Commander Shepard? 


Edit: More Synthesis and Destroy ending problems.

If you play a Paragon Shepard, through all of ME1, 2, and 3 he is consistent with the beliefs that: 

1. Genocide is wrong
2. Everyone with free will has the right to make their own choices.

If you choose Destroy, you are committing genocide. If you choose Synthesis you are robbing trillions of individuals of their personal choice. These endings completely fly in the face of Commander Shepard's established character, and are an absolute capitulation to the Reapers.

Modifié par Feixeno, 15 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[shepskisaac]

Nefelius wrote...

But...but ...dammit...they USE SYNTHETICS TO KILL ORGANICS  to make sure that SYNTHTETICS DO NOT  KILL ORGANICS.
Don't tell me that you see this in any way logical. Who cares what's the best way to accomplish theire goal. Do you kill your dog  so noone kills your dog?

They use synthetics that ain't greater mind-wise than organics or the Reapers to make sure that synthetics that ARE superior mind/intelligence-wise to organics and reapers don't kill organics. Big difference. This is not about "synthetics in general". Reapers are trying to prevent civilization from reaching technological singularity, where AIs exceed organic minds to the point that they find no reason for any organic life at exist at all. Reapers don't arrive as soon as synthetics are created. There were synthetics in Prothean's cycle and they are in ours. They arrive before synthetics completly outgrow organics and even the Reapers wouldn't be able to stop them. Geth are absolutely nowhere near that point and won't magically jump to that point in 2 days, so there's no reason why Reapers can't use them to kill organics just like they use organics to kill organics (husks).

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 mars 2012 - 03:27 .

[Astarmos]

a) Destruction of the relay network. As seen in the Arrival DLC the result of a destroyed Relay - is destruction of entire Solar System aroun it. Does the same happens to all other systems when the Relay network is destroyed?

-This is a controlled demolision. In the arrival we have a giant asteroid smashing into the relay. We know, that relays hold tremendous amount of energy. Asteroid destroys whole integrity and unleashes all energy in a form of a blast. At the end of ME3 we see that energy of the mass relays is dissipated in form of a wave. We see that the wave passes through people on Earth and nothing happens (well unless you get the worst ending).

  Normandy's fate. Why was the Normandy transiting via Mass Realy and where to?

I
will be honest with you - I didn't think that this scene is made for having some bigger sense than just showing the hope - future free of the reapers threat, the new beginning. Although I can imagine why Joker was running away. The last time Joker sees Shepard, he does something which reminds me of a goodbye. It is like Joker new that in the end
Shepard may die. Besides, Jokers mission wasn't flying around over London but to fight reapers in space. My theory is such:
When you chose two squadmates for the end run, the others perhaps gone with Joker to space. No problem with that if you assume, that in fact the beam would probably send you somewhere safer than Earth. I mean - reapers
didn't thought that you can get there - they always underestimated you. But it is only an idea and as I said - this scene probably has other function - the demonstration of the hope for better future.

 c)
Fate of the squadmates. Why last two squadmates "teleported" into
escaping Normandy unharmed after being hit by Reaper's laser?

This is definitly a bug. Even if you make assumption that talking with the catalyst is an illusion/indoctrination attempt, then still Shepard was concious about who was with him near the beam. So why could he imagine them with Joker? But this is a bug in my opinion.

 d)
Mastermind's AI faulty logic. Players  spent lots of time bringing
geth\\quarian conflict to peace and making EDI think more like organic.
But players are unable to present those facts to the AI (or whatever he
is) to oppose his "undeniable" logic.

EDI is based on reaper technology. Nobody would be able to create her without this technology.
So she herself it the manifestation of far better AI than normally civilizations would make.
Also I wouldn't put even Legion in the same class as EDI. Legion is friendly and so on, but he acts like a geth. Geths did not simply defend themselves. At the end they obliterated whole quarian fleet. All. They had much bigger power then quarians. Of course, if we are guided with simple logic then - quarians are attacking, destroy all of them, all ships, do not leave them alive. Legion said about heretics in ME2 something interesting: they thought about
everything like Legion, but the have a constant shifted by one - and they become by this extremely dengerous. So it isn't that hard to create rogue AI, is it? I'm not against Legion, but I'm against argument that AI is not a problem.

 
e) Shepard's acceptance. Through all ME series Shepard is presented as the embodiment of free will and denial of pre-determenism. And then all of a sudden he accepts AI's (or whatever) faulty logic and the "choices" he presents.

He is barely alive. He can barely stand. And you expect from him that he will do what? Jump from the Citadel and kill
himself in the name of justice? It is clearly shown that he is at the edge. He REALIZES that he isn't able to do anything himself. Of course, he can run, jump, scream (well he would die if he tried probably) and refuse to do anything. But do you really thing about it seriously?

Modifié par Astarmos, 15 mars 2012 - 04:23 .

[DrDetective]

The "new DNA" line still bothers me...

[TJX2045]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

2f) It's been explained in the novels (i can look up the precise quote if necessary) that the Cerberus base is always being moved so Miranda wouldn't know where the base was since she quit over 6 months ago.

From the way the base looked that is what I considered too when I read this post, but I didn't read the novels.  I just assumed that the Illusive Man didn't get his name for nothing.  LOL

[Inxentas]

"Your technology develops along the paths we desire"

That line alone invalidates the Catalyst logic. The only reason organics can create synthetics that wipe them out permanently is through technology, technology provided by the Reapers themselves.

Makes. No. Damn. Sense.

[ZtalkerRM]

Feixeno wrote...
Edit: More Synthesis and Destroy ending problems.

If you play a Paragon Shepard, through all of ME1, 2, and 3 he is consistent with the beliefs that: 

1. Genocide is wrong
2. Everyone with free will has the right to make their own choices.

If you choose Destroy, you are committing genocide. If you choose Synthesis you are robbing trillions of individuals of their personal choice. These endings completely fly in the face of Commander Shepard's established character, and are an absolute capitulation to the Reapers.

This was my biggest issue as well. I played a 100% complete paragon Shep from the start of ME1 right through ME2 and to me, all the three options are bad for me. The option that rewards your 100%-attitude (the destroy option) has you kill EDI, the Geth and throw away Legion's legacy. It's the selfish bastard choice for paragon shepards, which is contradictory.
So I chose the synthesis option, because it preserves all 'life' in the universe. I don't think it robs them of their free will though. I was a bit shocked by Joker's green eyes, but the 'old man' epilogue kind of proves that origanic life keeps it's own identity instead of becoming machines.
It's still a bad choice though, because you condemn machine and man to oneother instead of letting them 'connect' the natural way like the Geth and Quarians were doing (the Geth helping them overcome their suit-issues by 'becoming' vaccins). You kick evolution in the balls and throw it thousands of years ahead, against everyone's will. It's the least worst of the three choices, imo.

Also, Bioware has stated that they aren't finished with the ME universe yet. By blowing up the relays and the vastly different outcome of this ending; they are. The only new ME game can only be set before Shepard's story takes place. It means Bioware shot itself in the foot with this too...

[Sentr0]

i'd say trailer is longer (and way better) than the ending itself