110 réponses à ce sujet

[Flashlegend]

Avissel wrote...

I will cover this using the one system I can think of. The Horse Head Nebula. (If I mess up the math please say so, I'm not that great with it)

The HHN is estimated to be 1,500 LYs away from earth. So we do a 1 to 1. Going exactly Light speed (LS) for the entire trip it would take 1,500 years to get there.

Codex says you can cover 12 LYs in a days trip at FTL speeds, but never really states How much Faster than light you are going. So every day you cover 12 light years. So it would take 125 days to cover 1,500 light years.

Then you divide 125 by 12 and if I didn't screw this up (which is possible) It should work out to being like 10 or so months to get to the HHN from Earth. That is assume you run at FTL the entire trip, which we know ships can't do because they have to stop to discharge the drive core and get more fuel.

There aren't 12 days in a month. It would be 4+ months.

[Darknessfalls23]

You would have to go all the way around the arms because the core has so much radiation and a massive black hole to avoid.

[betd2]

jnk wrote...

 While I do have a number of issues with the game overall, I've noticed that everyone seems to be saying that every single world is now isolated with the lack of mass relays.

When as far as I can tell, this is evidently not the case. The races in the galaxy still traditional FTL drives, which are able to go at least 10LY in a day and the majority of respective homeworlds also have a large number of dead reapers (or synthesised or controlled whatever you fancy) who have a traditional FTL drive that can go as much as 30LY in a day.

This FTL is fast enough to allow the reapers to enter the galaxy from far beyond it in under four years. 

TO top it off, it is also strongly implied that the Asari have the technology to build new mass relays by themselves - according to the conversations on Illum with Liara's father.

While the wide spanning galactic civilisation would probably end, space faring civilisation are still perfectly good to go.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9882109
Read that

[Evil_medved]

Codex states that maximum FTL speed is 12 lightyears/day.

To travel from Earth to Rannoch Quarian fleet will have to fly 30 years not stoping for a second.

Imagine real-life ship that has to float for 30 years non-stop, without being able to visit cities, get repair materials and medicaments.

[KaeserZen]

Avissel wrote...

I will cover this using the one system I can think of. The Horse Head Nebula. (If I mess up the math please say so, I'm not that great with it)

The HHN is estimated to be 1,500 LYs away from earth. So we do a 1 to 1. Going exactly Light speed (LS) for the entire trip it would take 1,500 years to get there.

Codex says you can cover 12 LYs in a days trip at FTL speeds, but never really states How much Faster than light you are going. So every day you cover 12 light years. So it would take 125 days to cover 1,500 light years.

Then you divide 125 by 12 and if I didn't screw this up (which is possible) It should work out to being like 10 or so months to get to the HHN from Earth. That is assume you run at FTL the entire trip, which we know ships can't do because they have to stop to discharge the drive core and get more fuel.

Divide 125 by 30 or 30,5, because otherwise you're reasoning in terms of clusters of days containing 12 days each

[Avissel]

SandTrout wrote...
You screwed that up. You divide 125 by 30 to get months, so about 4 months.

I knew I was screwing something up, thanks XD

[Flashlegend]

Darknessfalls23 wrote...

You would have to go all the way around the arms because the core has so much radiation and a massive black hole to avoid.

This, and lets not forget, A majority of the galaxy is still uncharted. Flying from clusters with great distance between each other is gonna require that whoever is taking the trip is prepared to face the unknown. Mass Relays make it look easy, but uncharted space travel isn't trivial, it's extremely dangerous.

[izmirtheastarach]

Evil_medved wrote...

Codex states that maximum FTL speed is 12 lightyears/day.

To travel from Earth to Rannoch Quarian fleet will have to fly 30 years not stoping for a second.

Imagine real-life ship that has to float for 30 years non-stop, without being able to visit cities, get repair materials and medicaments.

Can someone point out where exactly in the codex it says this?

[xtorma]

jnk wrote...

 While I do have a number of issues with the game overall, I've noticed that everyone seems to be saying that every single world is now isolated with the lack of mass relays.

When as far as I can tell, this is evidently not the case. The races in the galaxy still traditional FTL drives, which are able to go at least 10LY in a day and the majority of respective homeworlds also have a large number of dead reapers (or synthesised or controlled whatever you fancy) who have a traditional FTL drive that can go as much as 30LY in a day.

This FTL is fast enough to allow the reapers to enter the galaxy from far beyond it in under four years. 

TO top it off, it is also strongly implied that the Asari have the technology to build new mass relays by themselves - according to the conversations on Illum with Liara's father.

While the wide spanning galactic civilisation would probably end, space faring civilisation are still perfectly good to go.

Your ship would have to be 10% ship and 90% fuel tanks , look how much fuel it takes to get from one system to another within a cluster. Now look at the differences between clusters. it would take thousands of years just to erect enough fuel depots to go between clusters. and the cost would be so high it would not be worth it.

[Ronnocloki]

The biggest problem is that the conventional FTL drives require that you regularly discharge the drive core necessitating that you remain within a certain safe distance of a system with planets at all times. This would vastly increase the amount of time required to travel a significant distance.

[Avissel]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
Can someone point out where exactly in the codex it says this?

It never states thats the maximum, but the codex entery for FTL says "Roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in a days cruise"

And like (and the people who corrected my last bit of math) pointed out. The closet "real place" we can reference on the ME galaxy map is the Horse Head Nebula, which the GM shows is fairly close to the local cluster.
It would take about 4 months of constant FTL flight to get there from Earth, but you have to factor in stopping to discharge the drive core and get supplies.

The main question becomes, Can a ship cover the distance between systems before the drive core is over loaded?

Modifié par Avissel, 15 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[Evil_medved]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

Codex states that maximum FTL speed is 12 lightyears/day.

To travel from Earth to Rannoch Quarian fleet will have to fly 30 years not stoping for a second.

Imagine real-life ship that has to float for 30 years non-stop, without being able to visit cities, get repair materials and medicaments.

Can someone point out where exactly in the codex it says this?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL

FTL drives are devices which allow ships to travel at FTL speeds through space. FTL drive cores work by exposing element zero to electric currents, creating mass effect fields. It reduces the mass of an object—such as a starship—to
a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible.
With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise.

Modifié par Evil_medved, 15 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[Warp92]

Well you can read up on FTL here if you want it says alot but what I saw as interesting is this

" To an outside observer, a ship within a mass effect drive envelope appears to have blue-shifted. If within a field that allows travel at twice the speed of light, any radiation it emits has twice the energy as normal. If the ship is in a field of about 200 times lightspeed, it radiates visible light as x-rays and gamma rays, and the infrared heat from the hull is blue-shifted up into the visible spectrum or higher. "

[Enjou]

Ok, let's just be clear on the mathematics of this. The Milky Way is anywhere from 100,000 to 120,000 light years across, depending on your starting point. That means as a if you can travel 10LY per day it would take you 27.4 to 32.9 years to travel from one end of the galaxy to another, provided you never have to stop.

However, in the ME universe you do have to stop. There are four reasons you need to stop:
1. Discharging your drive core. This needs to be done somewhat frequently.
2. Get more food supplies. Other than the quarians, none of the races really have ships built for growing food for long term travel. This means that along the way you need to find garden worlds that have suitable foodstuffs, which given the relative rarity of garden worlds and the fact that not all garden worlds have food that is good for every species, this is a very risky proposition. You're quite likely to starve on any truly long term trip.
3. Fuel. The Normandy can run out of fuel just by traveling withing a single star cluster and not refueling. Unless you either have the infrastructure to extract the necessary elements for fuel on your ship (again, like the quarians would) you're not going to get far. Given that the Reapers have destroyed many fueling stations and a lot of infrastructure used to make fuel, this is going to be a problem. It's even further a problem because the further you get from a relay, the less likely that infrastructure is going to exist at all since galactic civilization centers around the relays.
4. Maintenance. Your ship is going to break down. Parts aren't usually just laying around. EDI mentions in the game that the Normandy will need maintenance before the year was out, and the damn ship was just refit before the game started. Imagine a decade or more long journey where you have to do the maintenance without a facility to do it in. The quarians had this problem with the Migrant Fleet, and they were able to make their own parts when needed.

Basically only the quarians would be prepared for any truly long distance travel, while the rest of the galaxy isn't remotely prepared for that. They are stuck in their local areas, and many remote colonies are cut off from the resources they'd normally use to grow.

(The Reapers probably got around 1, 3, and 4 through more advanced technologies, and had no need for 2)

Even if they can build new Mass Relays, that will take decades if not centuries as they are massive structures that require very large amounts of element zero.

The Earth equivalent would probably be if we lost the technology to make planes, cars, and powered ships and had to travel by horse and sailboats again. Yeah we could reach one another in time, but the resources for the trip would make it hard to be worth it.

[izmirtheastarach]

Warp92 wrote...

Well you can read up on FTL here if you want it says alot but what I saw as interesting is this

" To an outside observer, a ship within a mass effect drive envelope appears to have blue-shifted. If within a field that allows travel at twice the speed of light, any radiation it emits has twice the energy as normal. If the ship is in a field of about 200 times lightspeed, it radiates visible light as x-rays and gamma rays, and the infrared heat from the hull is blue-shifted up into the visible spectrum or higher. "

That's what I am trying to draw people's attention towards. Does that not contradict this idea of 12 lightyears a day?

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 15 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[Avissel]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
That's what I am trying to draw people's attention towards. Does that not contradict itself?

The part about 200xs light speed is presented as an example, we don't know if the ships are able to propel themselves at that speed. It could be that 200x LS is how fast they go when launched from a relay.

[izmirtheastarach]

Avissel wrote...

The part about 200xs light speed is presented as an example, we don't know if the ships are able to propel themselves at that speed. It could be that 200x LS is how fast they go when launched from a relay.

Relay travel is effectively instantaneous.

What I think it is saying is that you need to get up to 200 before you are blue-shifted. Which suggests to me that ships do.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 15 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[Pottumuusi]

You know what is kind of the defining aspect of space?

It's big.

[GreyhameBioware]

You also need to take into account that outside of areas near known home systems and mass relays, most of the galaxy is unexplored in the ME universe. So people would not know the best way to get home that would allow them to stop for the supplies they need to make the journey.

[Catroi]

because we read the freking codex and planets descriptions: it says that without the relays everyone will starve to death

Modifié par Catroi, 15 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[Brahlis]

You guys are forgetting about the inability to cross the galactic center. So double a lot of the travel times unless it's on the same corner of the galaxy.

[Avissel]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
Relay travel is effectively instantaneous.
What I think it is saying is that you need to get up to 200 before you are blue-shifted. Which suggests to me that ships do.

It's possible, but I'm not sure how to do the math to figure out how long it would take to cover the distance to the horse head nebula like in my other example.

Even then the main factor is can the ships cross the empty space between systems before the drive core over loads.

[wicked_being]

You know I never really heard it in-game that FTL still exists after you blow up the mass relays. The godchild-abomination said something like "many of the technology you rely on will be destroyed" but he didn't really say "but don't worry FTL is still there."

(maybe he did say it but at the point I was already baffled with all the bs)

[SolidisusSnake1]

Brahlis wrote...

Go study up on just how many light years separate different systems, please.

What he said even with FTL travel it would take a life time or more to travel from say Asari space to Krogan Space. And travelling from one end of the Galaxy to the other would bascially be impossible, If you read the Codex it explcitly states that even with Mass Relays only about 1% of the ENTIRE galaxy has been explored. That is how big a Galaxy is, now take away the Relays and think how little would be explorable.

Modifié par SolidisusSnake1, 15 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[jnk]

SilencedScream wrote...

The average person can walk from California to New York and then use a canoe (assuming you had enough food and water; even if it's all weightless) and ROW all the way to England and back to New York before you can get HALFWAY from one end of the galaxy to the other at 12 light years per day.

(For reference, to get from one end of the Milky Way to the other at 12ly/day, WITHOUT stopping for supplies, would take ~27 years)

Which from a certain standpoint is a very short time. Obviously as said before it won;t alow a galactic civilisation until a relay network is restored. But it can easily allow the creation of localised empires and trading groups.

For reference at 10LY/24h you can make it to alpha centauri and back in a day.