23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Dilandau3000]

My thoughts on the endings:

The short version is that while I won't let it ruin the franchise, I was very disappointed with the ending. The only reason I can still enjoy mass effect is because I can invent my own meaning on top of the existing ending. It takes a willful, deliberate effort to shoehorn some sense into this confusing mess, and while I can do it, I shouldn't have to.

I also thought of something else: in the Lord of the Rings movies, the moment after Frodo casts the ring into the fire and the tower begins to collapse, we see Sam, and Merry and Pippin, and all the others we know cheering: they know Frodo did it. Then, as the volcano explodes, their faces turn to shock, and the audience feels for them, because they care not just about Frodo, but about the characters reacting to his apparent death.

In ME3, we get some random soldiers--no idea who they are--cheering when the reapers die (or leave, depending on what you chose). And *no one* reacts to the fate of Shepard. Even your love interest, if he/she appears after the Normandy crash, has no reaction to his fate.

I think that's a large part of why the ending feels so empty, and emotionally unconnected: no one we care about reacts to it. Imagine seeing your squad struggling against husks and cannibals who suddenly fall dead. Imagine Jack and her kids being nearly overwhelmed, Jack struggling to maintain a barrier, when suddenly the resistence they were facing stops. Imagine similar scenes for most of the people you recruited (a much better way to represent your war assets than as mere numbers). Imagine feeling their elation, their joy at the victory... and then their despair as the Citadel begins to blow up, and they realize Shepard is likely doomed.

That, even with no further changes, would go a long way to making the ending feel like it mattered, to making the player feel involved. It wouldn't make it perfect, but it would make it a lot less empty.

[Averdi]

What was your favorite moment?

Mordin's final story arc (genophage cure) was a masterpiece.  Melancholy, even sad, but it beautifully and consistently honored the character.

[Tiikay_]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Exactly what I'd want to say, but written 100x better than what I could've put together.

[DCoacci]

This is probably gonna get lost in this thread, but whatever. I wanted to congratulate Bioware on a job well done, and thank you guys for the memorable journey over the past 5 years.

My favorite moment had to be Anderson’s death. I really liked his character, ever since I first read about him in Revelation. Even though I kinda saw his death coming, I never expected Bioware to pull it off so eloquently. The whole set up was great: Shepard being indoctrinated and (the player) forced to shoot her mentor; the two of them sitting side by side and his half-hearted joke about finally being able to sit down; Anderson reassuring Shepard one last time, referring to her as “child”, thus solidifying his status as a father figure passing the torch on to the next generation; his final words “I’m proud of you”, along with Keith David’s excellent, excellent delivery throughout the whole scene...

Finally, watching Anderson’s eyes close as the life goes out of him and Shepard’s reaction, hoping for a response, nearly moved me to tears.

About the ending...
I’m not a writer. I’m just a gamer who draws manga in his spare time, has a mediocre webcomic and a passion for storytelling. But even I know endings are hard. And in a story that spans 100+ hours, missteps are bound to happen. That said...

I liked the ending. It wasn’t what I wanted. What I had hoped for didn’t happen. But it was good. Fitting. I’m satisfied by that.

I do agree with some of the criticism it’s gotten. The Normandy scene certainly had me going “WTF?”. Some more explanation as to how they got in that situation would’ve been nice. Although I still managed to come to my own conclusion.

I thought the three choices were perfect. Happy endings are overrated.

Shepard drawing breath among the ruins made me cringe a little. Too cheesy and cliché for my taste. I liked the idea of her surviving and her story continuing on, I just wish it had been executed differently.

One thing I was hoping for was the classic Bioware text epilogues for each character. Would’ve been nice, but I understand why they were left out.

I also agree that the majority of the player’s decisions throughout the series didn’t seem to have any noticeable impact on the finale. But, somehow, that didn’t bother me. I was able to enjoy the ending for what it was.

The destruction of the Mass Relays is... tough to get around, given that it contradicts some already established lore. I assume there’s a good explanation that I’m missing. I really don’t think Bioware would flat out ignore something like that. Despite the lore issue, I still liked it because the destruction of the Mass Relays is the start of a new era, one that’s already hinted at with...

The stargazer (voiced by Buzz Aldrin of all people ). I loved this scene. Quite cheesy, yes, but fitting. Referring to our hero as “The Shepherd” was a nice touch that gave the story a nice mystical, mythical feel to it, especially if you consider certain spiritual beliefs. It was the perfect final sign-off for what’s been an amazing saga.

Looking back through the thread, I see some people are disappointed that you couldn’t save Anderson. Personally, even though I didn’t want him to die, I felt like he had to die. No matter what. The reason Anderson’s death was such a successful scene for me was because it was a perfect exclamation point to the message Bioware tried to communicate with Shepard’s dreams about the boy, as well as with the Catalyst’s revelation and the three ending choices: Shepard can’t save everyone. No matter how hard she tries. No matter how noble or strong she is. No matter how much she struggles. Even if she does everything right. Even if she was resurrected from the *bleep*ing dead, she’s still only human. She can’t control everything. Noone can, and that includes the player. People will die, and there’s nothing she (you) can do about it. It was only fitting that her mentor, the person who made her who she is, was the one to go in the end. I’m glad Bioware stuck to their guns with this. It made Shepard's personal story that much more impactful in my eyes.

I loved ME2, and thought the suicide mission was great. However, it always felt a little hollow to me, simply because you could accomplish a perfect mission, with no casualties, depending entirely on your choices. All you had to do was look up a guide somewhere and voilà: everyone lives. A “perfect” ending. You don’t get that in ME3. You don't get to make a choice based on statistics and be certain it'll come out right. You gotta make the hard choice, and hope for the best. There’s no “perfect” ending, and that may just be what lets ME3 stand next to a select few other titles on my list of favorite video game endings, warts and all.

--

In the end, I just want to congratulate Bioware again. By seeing the Mass Effect trilogy through to its conclusion, you guys did something no one else has done. Something no one else thought possible. An epic, memorable, even controversial story spanning three huge, critically and commercially acclaimed games. And it was nearly entirely player driven. Regardless of how people feel about the ending, you guys got that sh*t done.

Thank you for allowing us to experience one of gaming's most brilliant sagas, one which all other RPGs will undoubtedly be compared to from here on out. You've raised the bar exceedingly high, and I firmly believe I speak for the majority of your fans when I say you deserve the pat on the back a select, vocal few seem unwilling to give you.

Good job.

Modifié par DCoacci, 16 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

It just...doesn't make sense.

Why build a series in which one can earn their happy ending only to go "Lol nope bad ends" at the very end?

It's not deep or meaningful, it's just a depressing end to what was supposed to be the greatest game yet.

[cinderburster]

Almostfaceman wrote...

James Trauben at pixelatedgeek says it so much better than I do here:

The whole article is well worth a read.

Here's an excerpt:

"But there’s only so much dancing around the issue I’m willing to do. Nearly 99% of Mass Effect 3 is a superb game, quite possibly Game of the Year material. Even the missteps are largely forgivable. It is precisely the evolutionary drive western RPGs should embrace.

However, that remaining one percent, culminating in an out-of-the-blue reveal during literally the last five to ten minutes of the game, is so ill-thought-out, so inconclusive, so almost genuinely insulting coming after a game experience that radiates love for its universe and its narrative, that it doesn’t just damage this title but the entire franchise. It ripples backwards in the series and hurts replayability for the previous two games, a rare feat indeed.

A cohesive trilogy spanning years is destroyed by five ill-conceived minutes. It’s as if the scenario writers and the writer weren’t just two separate groups with separate ideas of what Mass Effect meant, but that they actively set out to negate each others’ work. (If only it were this simple! Released dev documents do not inspire confidence.)

I cannot overstate the shadow of this ending. To those who’ve started with Mass Effect 3 it might be merely vague and frustrating – to fans who’ve stuck through all three games, it is manipulative, scornful, and creatively bankrupt. It is contradictory to everything the Mass Effect series has said – a sudden deus ex machina in reverse, an arbitrary choice of damnations offered by a malevolent and untrustworthy figure parroting deeply flawed arguments who makes their first appearance in the last five minutes of the game, followed by one of three all but identical versions of a vague, unsatisfying and plothole-ridden cutscene that guts characterization and neither shows nor tells.

At best, the ending merely contradicts the themes of the game and (if you were paying attention to the in-universe lore) ends in an inferred holocaust and breakdown of galactic society, to say nothing of the complete lack of closure for the fates of characters or civilization as a whole. Interpreting it at its worst, it renders literally everything the player – or Shepard – ever did completely pointless…coming after a touching and poignant discussion between Shepard and a dying character as they sit waiting for the end that validates Shepard’s heroism and choices. When the player has to invent ways to have the ending be less than crushing, it’s not clever – it’s maddening."

+1 to this, too.

[JaylaClark]

I have to say, I'm taking you at face value with this thread, BioWare and Priestly. Though I may just be forcing myself to be respectful because of self-preservation. Or because I can't do a rage-on on the Internet without looking like an idiot. (This is the actual reason why I left Age of Conan. Or at least the forums. /aside)

I'm in an interesting position because circumstances forced me to learn about the endings before I got halfway there. And ... this is going to sound like faint praise, and ... it's probably best to be taken that way. I think I can see what you were trying to do. I can see the general thrust. It's primarily the execution that fails. Things aren't explained, characterization is ... debatable (several Shepards would have called Starchild on his spiel, I'm fairly sure, including all of mine), and of course there's the good old Endor Holocaust that seems present.

A word on that, by the way. My fellow forumites, including pretty much all of my forum friends, tend to take plot points to their logical conclusions from what's presented. A famous one, on a different forum as a matter of fact, involved why maleShep is horrible for Liara. I won't get into details here, but it's good logic... in reality. This is however a story world, where Liara is defined as omni (or asexual, though if Casey's reading this, I mean that in good fun ) and primarily interested in the telepathic anyway, thus reality conforms to the story, and certain negatives brought up by logic are... avoided, at least.

Let's use this with the cold hard facts of the endings as presented: The relays are destroyed in every ending. Thus every race is stranded in whatever solar system they're in (or at least whatever cluster, going by the capabilities as examined in the Star Map, in particular Normandy's range). With most of the fertile land stomped hard into the ground, people will die of lack of resources ... if the exploding relays don't kill just about everyone, as mentioned in Arrival. And galactic civilization is therefore doomed.

People are raging about why you'd leave us here, with an ending that utterly invalidates what we've all worked for through Shepard and company, because 'everyone is going to die'. I don't think there's even a possibility that Mac Walters consciously wrote that ending. (And clearly humans survive somehow anyway.) Whatever you think of the man's skill (and I only comment that the game up to this point has had close to the best writing I've ever seen in a game -- in my opinion, of course), such an ending would pretty much end the journey. Outright.

So I have to conclude that galactic society survives, despite everything shown. (Maybe the relays are destroyed in a different manner than flinging a giant rock into them and that makes the difference... to use only one of many possibilities.) I'm left... still disappointed, because I felt like I deserved to see how they rebuild, or how they survive... or why everyone's on the Normandy. That part is a real sticking point that, rumor has it, is solved in a deleted scene on the disk and yet we're never given an explanation.

Well, I've said my peace. Or piece, however the phrase goes. I don't necessarily need a retcon, though if there's any epilogue DLC, I actually do in two of the endings since we need some way of having Shep take part. But what I need, really need, is clarity. That's not too much to ask. Just tell us why we fought for what we fought for, and how it all turned out. That's all.

[elm]

so holding the line did work!

[1337Goblin]

I just hope Bioware has pulled some amazing writing with the indoctrination theory or something, the more I read into the theory the more it makes sense in every aspect, I just hope they've actually pulled it off, and the indoctrination theory is not just a bunch of bad writing and plotholes.

[Gegana]

First of all, I really appriciate the staffs at Bioware for creating such an amazing lore and game.

I don't normally play video games as much anymore as I do not have the time to invest on it due to the nature of my daily life. I don't even care to write on game forums, in fact this is the first time i have written in this forum as the emotional attachment to the series obliged me to do so.

Mass Effect has been a series that is attached to my soul. I trully loved it since the beginning of ME1. This is a game that trully worth my time investment. I have spent over countless hours on ME1 games series alone with four different characters and three different ones in ME2.

I love every character in all the series, the story, the choices, the lore, the gameplay. It is also a game that my girl friend can truly enjoy watching me play. It is a heavily story driven play, i trully beleive that ME series is the pinnacle of narrative gameplay.

In regards of ME3, I have not experienced such an emotional attachment from any game. The time of Mordin's death (tears flow from my eyes, he was my fav character), Thane's death... Tali's suicide on my second playthrough, Shepard struggle and emotional development... the overall of theme of hope in a dire situation... it was an epic journey.

Unfortunately, these epic journey was finished with a bitter, sad and depressing end during the last five minutes. The closure was not gratifying! None of my choices matters in the end, it all lead towards shepard sacrifices. I could understand the idea of sacrifices on the ending, as it was as I am expecting. However, finishing the stories without a degree of resolution seems a bit shortlived. It felth a bit rushed and disconnected on the overall theme of the entire series.

I for one feel that it is very sad to see such an epic game to end like this... and would like to see Bioware reward us faitful mass effect fans with a rewarding ending.

Again, thank you for making such a wonderful ser and hopefully many of the fans wishes in regards on additional ending will be acknowledge.

[Shermos]

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Just for interest sake:

www.atomicmpc.com.au/Feature/293874,it8217s-not-okay-for-developers-to-8216patch8217-an-ending.aspx

Modifié par Shermos, 16 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[AnsinJung]

I'd say my favorite moments are the Mordin Solus "Scientist Salarian" or EDI's "I like the sight of humans on their knees" and talking with Garrus. Garrus became an increasingly good friend for Shepard, which choked me up at the end of ME3; he seems more real than almost anyone in the ME universe.

As far as the ending, I really hope there's more to it than the face value, like with the "indoctrination theory" or whatever the official name is. If something like that is the case, I like the ending more and more. As soon as Shepard began moving in slo-mo, I began wondering if something was amiss. Then when TIM shows, up, I'm even more dubious about the reality of it, as everyone's speech seems really slurred and what not. I was then further perplexed by the obviousness of the blue vs red lights at the end.

What really annoyed me was that there was no confirmation. I approached the blue light mainly to check what it was before proceeding, after largely going "huh?" with the kid VI, then I got sucked in and couldn't turn around, with Shepard walking forward on autopilot.

Even having only watched one ending, I remember trying to figure out what the difference actually was (hence the "huh?"), and perusing forums taught me enough. I still will get a lot of replay value from ME3, probably as much as ME2, as I plan to at least get some satisfaction watching slightly different endings, plus the meat of the game is still really fun.

[Himmelstor]

Shermos wrote...

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Against all polls, user reviews, etc. to the contrary.

The idea of them not owing us anything is technically true. But honestly, why wouldn't they do something? Their reputation is what is at stake here.

[BTDUBS]

Shermos wrote...

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Since we the consumers are the ones who fund these products through our hard earned money, we have the right to demand a better ending since we paid $60+ for this game. Mad fans = bad business.

[Chitzen Itza]

 The only question I have, which contains no spoilers and shouldn't ruin anything for anybody, is: Will there be a DLC that takes place after the events of the ending?

[Paul_Shepard]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Andy Roark wrote...

Graceyn wrote...

Palidane wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

At this point, every third post in this thread is just quoting the above post. But that's ok, cause bwFex pretty much said everything Bioware needs to hear. I'll add my voice to the pile: Bioware, if you only read one post on this thread, let this be it. Seriously, no more needs to be said. Just make it right.

For the 42,576th time, I can't say it better than this.

42, 577

42, 578

42,579

[Squadrito]

is it bad if my depression came back because of this?

[Bayson]

I hated the ending, after all that time played I felt cheated and moreso when I found out the other endings. I could not believe that was it but it was and it made me sad.

Other than the ending, this game was perfect. I loved how smoothly it flowed. It felt less like a game and more like the movie. The loading screens worked much better. The relationships felt more personal, at least for the Garrus relationship.

I hope some thing can be done about the ending. If not I cant see myself playing it again and it seems like such sad options for such an epic masterpiece.

[Himmelstor]

Paul_Shepard wrote...

*snip*

42,579

We get it, already, this theory is popular, I don't care DO NOT MAKE A PYRAMID!

[PrettyD3f]

I don't know if I could say it any better then people have already done in this thread. We all feel the same way. Please Bioware make this right.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Disappointment.

Beautiful characters, engaging plot,...all to be killed by a short conversation and one of three cookie cutter endings.

Just...disappointment.

[QuanManChu]

All I know is if Squaresoft (as they were known back then) could pull off multiple endings in Chrono Trigger back in '95... I can't imagine why you guys at Bioware can't.

[Shermos]

Himmelstor wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Against all polls, user reviews, etc. to the contrary.

From my previous post.

"The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation."

In other words, the polls are meaningless because they don't reflect the majority or people who have played the game or even fans of the series. And if you link to Metacritic you deserve only to be laughed at. The user section of that site is even less meaningful.

I'll give another another example of internet feedback not giving a good representation. My state in Australia (Queensland) has an election coming up. A recent online poll showed that most people supported the Labor Party, which is clearly not the case when you consider the enitre voting population. The online poll didn't give a good representation of voter views. And the same is true for gamers and fans of the Mass Effect series.

Longer term sales comparisons between ME2 and ME3 would give Bioware a better idea of what people think.

Modifié par Shermos, 16 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[stellap20]

Squadrito wrote...

is it bad if my depression came back because of this?

I feel the same way Squadrito

[Flyprdu]

I would like to see all the assets acquired in action. Batarians, Volus, Elcors with back mounted bazookas. Everything engaged with the enemy.  On the planet and in orbit.

I would like to see how acquiring assets makes the war easier. Progress if you have enough. Difficulty if you don't. (This would be so easy to implement.)

I want to see my surviving squadmates from all 3 games, all 16 of them shoulder to shoulder.. working together on the battlefield to face the threat.

A face off with Harbinger and the Normandy.. I want to see that sweet ship fire her awesome gun.

I would like to see the finale with Harbinger... inside it.  Inside a living Reaper would be incredible.

I want a verbal showdown between Harbinger and Shepard that was completely missing from the entire game.

I want to know that total victory is a possibility. Make it difficult. But it at least needs to be on the table.

And finally, I want to see an epilogue. I want to know how it all ends up. Resolution. Closure. Catharsis. Whatever you want to call it, I just want to know what happens after.

Modifié par Flyprdu, 16 mars 2012 - 04:06 .