23455 réponses à ce sujet

[CajunRexShepard]

Agreed with the majority- the series was AMAZING up until about the last 10-15 minutes of the third game. I even enjoyed the MP portion, and I'm usually not big on MP games, particularly shooters. Sure, there were a few plot holes, like how Cerberus managed to pull off the citadel takeover, etc etc, and some missions that weren't there that I'd have loved to see (Omega, Kahje, Dekunna, Irune, possible Batarian, Elcor, Volus, Hanar squaddies) but all in all I was riveted from moment one to moment done... I hope the endings we know are not gospel reality, truly I do, because they tarnish an otherwise OUTSTANDING adventure five plus years in the making.

Fave moments? The whole Han Solo-esque scene when Tali says "I love you" and Shep just replies "Keelah Se'lai" Then he has to take out a destroyer with a targeting laser.

Brokering Quarian/Geth Peace, curing the Genophage, briging together the entire galaxy, even the Batarians and the merc fleets, meeting the last Prothean and seeing he is not what anyone (especially Liara) expected, and capturing my Space Hamster. >.>

"I should go."

[sparkyo42]

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

That's pretty much how I feel, there were great moments over shadowed by the end and I don't think anything can make that right.

[Cyansomnia]

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

I feel the same way, except I'd like to add that I believe the Mass Effect 2 characters should have had larger roles.  The way you handled Jacob and Thane's romances was also atrocious and perhaps even borderline malicious.

[Captiosus77]

LinksOcarina wrote...

If you feel betrayed by the ending, thats fine. But to suddenly demand that the company decide to make an ending to fit your tastes is unprecedented in ANYTHING I have ever seen in gaming.

You obviously weren't around to see the Fallout 3 mess. A very similar backlash hit Bethesda over the ending of Fallout 3 and, as a result, Broken Steel came out and wrapped up the story in what was deemed a far more "satisfatory" way.

It's not unprecedented. Broken Steel set the precedent within the very same genre.

Look, the problem I am seeing here is simple really; the fans don't like the ending and they want it fixed. But BioWare is well within their right to not do anything (and personally, I think they shouldn't after the treatment of them as of late.) Fans are being fickle over 5 minutes in a 125 hour experience; it's like people complaining about the ending to Godfather Part III, despite the fact that the previous six hours of the Godfather movies were pure gold.

You're overlooking several important facts:
1. The massive PR machine for this game spent months telling publications through interviews that the story would be wrapped up. No loose ends, no "Lost" type ending, and multiple potential endings. That turned out to be all lies.

2. Cinema is a passive experience whereas gaming, especially the type of gaming provided by the Mass Effect trilogy, is an interactive one. I didn't fully emotionally connect with the Corelones because I was just an outsider looking in on their lives; I emotionally connected with Commander Shepard because I was Commander Shepard and that fact was one of the, if not the, key selling point to the franchise. You were the protagonist. Your choices shaped the game, your choices shaped the options in the sequels. At least, until the end, where the only choice you get is a set of three nonsensical ones hastily thrown in, out of character with the entire universe and plot lines, all leading to a near identical non-conclusion.

3. In almost every good work of fiction, a bad ending will ruin the entire story. Just go look at some of the reviews for lengthy Fantasy books where authors got too full of themselves and the story went off the rails (*cough*Robert Jordan*cough*). A bad, or even lackluster, ending can absolutely ruin how an entire story is perceived. Hence the problem with ME3. The conclusion of ME3 took everything we spent 2 games, 99% of a third game, four books and a graphic novel building up and threw it out in one fell swoop. The art defense is a complete cop out. You don't get down to the last 10 minutes and decide to go avante garde and, as someone else said here earlier, if art has to be explained, it fails as art.

I didn't like the ending that much either, but I at least respect the fact that BioWare decided to try something different.

"Trying something different"?
No, they discarded an entire universe for a bunch of metaphysical nonsense. They discarded the very essence of the game - player choice - that sold the franchise and made it what it was. And for what? "Polarization"?

Modifié par Captiosus77, 16 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[spacefiddle]

SPACE HAMSTER! Ah, the triumphant return.

Also, I was really liking the MP, but I can't bring myself to run any of the games now. It's just... i stare at the screen and go, okay, but.... and exit.

Squeak!

[ManOfSteeL1618]

Dark Penitant wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Absolutely this. Just. This.

I think they will make it right. They are just giving others time to finish the game.

[Adhal]

So after playing through the game twice now I have to say I absolutely love 99% of the single player game, however the 1% I don't like is parts of the ending. No, My issue isn't with Shepard dying at the end (I don't necessarily call seeing him take a last gasp of air as a sign hes a live, if that even is him since he didnt have a helm on in the ship or when he entered it), it with the fact somehow my crew magically appeared on the Normandy and the all decided to run from the battle long before it was over since he was already jumping between mass relays. It makes no sense at all. This game was pretty solid story wise until then.

Would it have been nice to get more closures to the events at the end after playing 3 games for it? Yes but I can deal with that. I also get that the endings had to be similar to continue the series, but at least don't leave huge plot holes that make absolutely no sense in a game. Its really disappointing that all the hard work the story writers put in to this game was trash by this one plot hole at the end.

[stellap20]

this discussion is getting out of hand. We are here to try and convenience them to give us a closure some how and we are arguing amongst ourselves. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion however this is a forum for people they want a change or a DLC. Arguing if is an art or not you need a different forum.

[liaramylove]

I loved the game and it did evoke emotion and I loved it and could not put it down until well I will not even call it an ending as that would require there to actually be one. Choices all the way through some hard some more on what type of player or person but everytime we were always allowed to have some control over an obsticale they may have seemed to hard to overcome (suicide mission ME2, and of course the end of ME1 as well), but we always could get an ending fitting to the game. I played the ME series as a person in love with RPG's but hated shooters only after a friend pestering me did I finally give it a shot and I loved every moment and was looking forward to an end similar to that of the great epics of our time (such as star wars, Lord of the rings, ect.) but what I got was an ending that says no matter what you do your basicall done for no matter what. That just does not fit at all. I am not one to usually squabble over a game or its ending, I defended Dragon Age 2 though I did not feel it was as good as Orgins I still loved it and played through now several times. Ever since ME3 I cannot even look at the games or even think about going through it again as well the ending was quite possible one of the worst I have ever scene in the history of great games. I am glad you are all listening and hope that there is options for us to have the ending we all can enjoy. I thank Bioware for all the hard work they do and that they do listen to there fans as lets face it most video game companies would not give the time of day, so I am very appreciative of that and hope you do something so like Dragon Age I can play it over and over and love all the games out there. Until then I will have to find a new game as I cannot play this again and as is would not suggest it to a friend and have in fact talked several out of buying the game until something is done.

[metamorphyse]

 The game is great,... goes further than just entertaining like ME2 did. The art shines in some places, whether it be a gruesome battle or a nice landscape,... the ending has choices, don't have a clue why people complain, if you'd actually played till the end; and then instead of chucking away your copy and ranting about it; you would have seen there are a few outcomes, and yet instead of trying different things you forgot about the game and the experience... and before this seems like a rantTHE ENDINGS ARE GREAT, bit weird though with the different colours, and the fact if you stay long enough pondering your decision the reaper goes through the 2 alliance cruisers XDbut hell i've enjoyed the endings i've had till now,... i hated my first one... but i got a few more to try out. I think they did a great job, and unless bioware wants me to tell spoilers as to what the next game could be i'll end here with the dude i played saved the one he loved and saw earth cleansed (that was my first ending),... but at a price... 

[Legend78731]

Dilandau3000 wrote...

I think that's a large part of why the ending feels so empty, and emotionally unconnected: no one we care about reacts to it. Imagine seeing your squad struggling against husks and cannibals who suddenly fall dead. Imagine Jack and her kids being nearly overwhelmed, Jack struggling to maintain a barrier, when suddenly the resistence they were facing stops. Imagine similar scenes for most of the people you recruited (a much better way to represent your war assets than as mere numbers). Imagine feeling their elation, their joy at the victory... and then their despair as the Citadel begins to blow up, and they realize Shepard is likely doomed.

That, even with no further changes, would go a long way to making the ending feel like it mattered, to making the player feel involved. It wouldn't make it perfect, but it would make it a lot less empty.

Agreed.

[BTDUBS]

cinderburster wrote...

Shermos wrote...

BTDUBS wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Since we the consumers are the ones who fund these products through our hard earned money, we have the right to demand a better ending since we paid $60+ for this game. Mad fans = bad business.

Mass Effect 3 =/= a broken toaster still in warranty.

To quote what i said in a recent poll:

"Mass Effect is a piece of art, not a defective toaster. Surely people
here realise how rediculous it would be to ask an author to change the
ending of his novel because they didn't like it. He'd have every right
to politely tell you to get f'd. The same is true here. "

Let's say I don't like the ending to a movie I saw at the cinema. Do I have a right to dammand the makers of the movie change it to suit my wants? No. Absolutely not. It is their creative work and they can do what they wish with it. If I don't like, I simply don't buy it and look for something I like more.

I'm trying to be polite, but honestly, grow up people.

Here's where your argument runs into a problem: everyone posting on this forum that has had a negative reaction to the endings has already paid for the game.  We have no way to get our money back.  Some of us paid upwards of $80 for the Collector's Edition.

Explain to us why we're supposed to sit down and shut up when we've already paid for an unsatisfactory product?

Games are works of art, yes.  They are not, however, novels.  They aren't movies.  They aren't paintings.  They are made for entertainment and escapism.  That is why they sell.  The endings have left a lot of people far from entertained, and Bioware needs to know.

Here is where my argument works, I don't have to buy anymore BioWare stuff either. It is way easier to get repeat business than to create new customers. Despite the success of ME3, BioWare's business has been mainly based on repeat customers and they know this. I have every reason to believe that they will fix this. They did these endings because they though they had an Inception moment on their hands. They thought we would go "whoa" at the end instead of "NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" followed by throwing of controllers and other objects. Like it or not they did this to make us happy. This game is obviously a labor of love, bad ending and all. They will fix this because we will HOLD THE LINE!

[ManOfSteeL1618]

sparkyo42 wrote...

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

That's pretty much how I feel, there were great moments over shadowed by the end and I don't think anything can make that right.

Honestly, the current ending destroyed Mass Effect entirely for me.

[xXIncognitoXx]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Shermos wrote...

BTDUBS wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Bioware, please leave the endings as they are. I beg you. The people demanding the that the endings be changed are being ridiculous and simply have no right to do so whatsoever. It is Your creative work, not theirs.

The endings are fine as they are and set things up for a new Mass Effect game set after the events of ME3 very nicely. I'll happily buy DLC which expands on what is already in the core game, but not anything which significantly changes it. It will set a very bad precedent.

I sincerely believe the people demanding a change are a vocal minority. The Bioware forums and your twitter accounts don't give a fair representation.

Since we the consumers are the ones who fund these products through our hard earned money, we have the right to demand a better ending since we paid $60+ for this game. Mad fans = bad business.

I'm trying to be polite, but honestly, grow up people.

Yes how dare the fans feel betrayed by the ending!

I'm trying to be polite, but honestly, shut up.

I'm not being polite; you are an ignorant fool.. 

If you feel betrayed by the ending, thats fine. But to suddenly demand that the company decide to make an ending to fit your tastes is unprecedented in ANYTHING I have ever seen in gaming. 

Look, the problem I am seeing here is simple really; the fans don't like the ending and they want it fixed. But BioWare is well within their right to not do anything (and personally, I think they shouldn't after the treatment of them as of late.) Fans are being fickle over 5 minutes in a 125 hour experience; it's like people complaining about the ending to Godfather Part III, despite the fact that the previous six hours of the Godfather movies were pure gold.

I didn't like the ending that much either, but I at least respect the fact that BioWare decided to try something different. The problem is its not good enough in the end for some people. I get that. But bombarding them with seething negativity shows how ignorant one can be on the entire situation. Hell, even the charity to childs play is a nicer idea, and I think its sad that people are so obsessed over one video game.

Or maybe its a mark that you guys really liked the game and want it to be perfect; good old armchair psychology calls this sub-consiousously looking for perfection in something that is inherently imperfect anyway. But I digress...

Fallout 3 ending says hi! It was changed.

[silvrdark]

Thank you for listening, and aknowledging our concerns in some measure. 

It's difficult to pick a favorite moment; there were so many wonderful ones.  Watching Mordin sacrifice hismelf to cure the genophage was the first time a game has ever made me cry.  His sacrifice for the Krogan, and for the galaxy was a moving (yet fitting) narrative in this fantastic trillogy.  Despite the sadness, I think it was still my favorite moment, and a testament to the thoughtfullness and skill that has been poured into Mass Effect over the years.

Please don't nullify the meaning behind that moment and so many others.  Use your skills to make it right.

[ManOfSteeL1618]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

I don't understand how you cannot like Garrus...I just can't comprehend.... I-  *explodes*

He just never grabbed me.

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

 

I've got some bad, bad news for you friend: You're going to die one day.

On that day, nothing you've ever done will matter at all. It will be you and death, waiting on you, coming closer. One ending.

And, judging by what you just said, I guess your life must be hollow and empty, with no memories of joy, right? I mean, it will all be irrelevant in the end.

Or...

You're being silly.

But what about Heaven? (rolls eyes)

[liljoey40]

Thank you bioware for showing me in 5 minutes that all the time I spent and all the deciscions I made in ME, ME2, and ME3 meant absolutely nothing in the end, since you know everyone dies....

[g0dhax0rz]

It would just be easier to tell you what part was not my favorite and I think you already know which one it is.

[spacefiddle]

LinksOcarina wrote...
I'm not being polite; you are an ignorant fool.. 

If you feel betrayed by the ending, thats fine. But to suddenly demand that the company decide to make an ending to fit your tastes is unprecedented in ANYTHING I have ever seen in gaming.

Stop calling each other names so we can get back to proper arguing

Links, you're missing the essential point.  It isn't the, hmm, story choices? of the ending that are the *major* problem.  Yes, the appearance of a godboi is never a good sign, and there are waaaay too many cliches that suddenly pop in out of nowhere, but the thing is, *we were promised flying cars.*  And we got a broken Big Wheel.

It was Bioware who dug themselves into this hole.  ALL the marketing hype, the Dev and Exec statements leading up to launch, ALL of it... promised, in glowing terms and practically clapping hands with glee, that the game would be... the precise opposite of what we got.  The ABC endings (second link in my sig, read Casey's quote).  The way all your choices are invalidated.  The weird, weird way that best case is, you needed to metagame the end to do it right, THEN realize this wasn't the promised resolution after all and more would be coming later, THEN the final insult is that BUY DLC! ad as you're staring at the screen in shock.

Poorly done, all around.

Simple as that.

[mazza015]

Not gonna lie, Mass Effect 3 was a great game (general consensus) but the ending was the same thing (stating the obvious) so much for the 16 different endings, there is only 3 ****ing endings

[Himmelstor]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

devSin wrote...

The ending makes it pretty irrelevant which moments are favorites. Does it really matter if they were good or great if I never have any desire to play through them again?

 

I've got some bad, bad news for you friend: You're going to die one day.

On that day, nothing you've ever done will matter at all. It will be you and death, waiting on you, coming closer. One ending.

And, judging by what you just said, I guess your life must be hollow and empty, with no memories of joy, right? I mean, it will all be irrelevant in the end.

Or...

You're being silly.

That is not why the endings were bed, though I would have liked one of the options at least to give Shepard a happy ending, perhaps at galactic cost at the end. (Put that moral talk where the line is drawn.)

The endings were bad because they were unfulfilling. Worse, it's almost an implied holocaust if you think on what we know about the Mass Effect universe.

EDIT: Basically, for all the 'I am Commander Shepard' idea out there, it's not quite true. We are an observer seeing through the eyes (and often controlling) a person within that universe. And now it ends with no closure. It's like real life? If you want to simplify it, sure. That is not why were so invested. It was the choices and their consequences.

Modifié par Himmelstor, 16 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[cinderburster]

Shinobi2u wrote...

Game_Fan_85 wrote...

NightHawkIL wrote...

Game_Fan_85 wrote...

People wonder why Chris or any other BioWare person hasn't posted. There is another thread about the ending, isn't this supposed to be about the moments we loved from the game?

They need to be extremely careful what they come out and say. Every single word that is spoken needs to be absolute truth or it will come back to bite them just as all of good ol' Casey's promises about the endings have. I'm sure they sat around the conference room for an hour at least, just trying to figure out if they should make a forum post or not.

Heh, I think it is more like they were having meetings about what to say from last week when this mess blew up

Would not doubt it. People want an immediate response, but I am sure they have to take time and figure out what to say over there.

Treavor647 wrote...

Can people stop calling the game a
work of art? Works of Art are not mass produced in factories by the
hundreds of thousands. Its a product plain and simple. And the people
posting are Consumers. and are having buyers remorse. like most, I did
not pay for a Collectors Edition to "speculate" on a ending. If that
was the case i would just Speculate the whole game and save 90 bucks
plus tax.

As most people cannot get their money back, or not the
the value they paid for it (game stop in my area stop taking ME3 trade
ins) they are contacting the company in hopes they can resolve this. I
am being nice and giving them until PAX to explain.

You are entitiled to your opinion, but your logic feels flawed. Movies, books, comics, even prints or art are all mass produced, but they are still works of art. The amount of how much something is made has no bearing on what it should be classified to me. I see games as being multiple pieces of art made by multiple people put together in a final product and by default, is art.

The difference being the purpose of a game.  Not all movies, books, paintings/other works of static art, or even comics are created to entertain.

Video games are entertainment, first and foremost.   I think that's where the disconnect between those saying it's a product (and therefore they deserve to at least hear an official response to their problems with the endings) and those that are saying it's a work of art (and therefore Bioware has no obligations to us) is.

ME3 was entertaining, right up until the end when the rug was pulled out from under my feet for the sake of being edgy and thought-provoking.  It fell short of that goal in a lot of ways; the main thought that it's provoked is "good grief, why?" and "how does that even make any sense" followed by a feeling that Bioware is either trolling me or thinks I'm actually that unintelligent.

It's pretty insulting.

Modifié par cinderburster, 16 mars 2012 - 04:47 .

[Nathonas]

Himmelstor wrote...

Nathonas wrote...

I would say bwFex articulated my feelings much better than I could but the above captures it just as well.  For the love of all we hold dear in Mass Effect please FIX THE ENDING!.

As for my favorite scenes of ME3, I would say :
   1. Tali gazing on Rannoch and taking her face mask off to breathe in the atomsphere of her home world for the first time.
   2. Wrex fighting to what seemed like his death to help out the sqad only to find him staggering out covered in rachni blood.
   3.  Blasting a mini-reaper using a sighting laser for the flee to bomboard it from orbit.

2: That wasn't Wrex. That was Grunt.

You're right, I fixed my post.. must have hit my head..or something.

[SLana]

My  favorite moment is the geth and the quarians "family reunion"  I also really like "new" Jack, she's amazing! I hoped she will overcome all those horrible things from her past but she did even better than I expected.
I choose mostly paragon ways but some renegade interruptios made me feel good
And thanks for James Vega, I don't care if some people don't like him.