Aller au contenu

Photo

On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
23455 réponses à ce sujet

#2926
DCYNIGR8

DCYNIGR8
  • Members
  • 236 messages
The game up until the last 10 minutes is amazing, I was originally mostly upset about the Normandy ending up stranded who knows where, but after thinking about it more and finishing the game a second time, once you get hit with the Harbinger beam, it just stops making sense.

I've played through ME and ME2 more times than I care to count, I spent weeks crafting all my saves so I could experience every possible aspect to ME3 and ensure that my canon Shepard had the best possible ending. But
as it turns out, all three endings are equally unsatisfying. Which feels like my hundreds of hours of playtime was for nothing. Even trying to replay the game so I can complete the story of all the Shepard’s I’ve created is incredibly
difficult as I know ultimately I’m going to be left just as unsatisfied as I was the first time. I’ve loved the Mass Effect games, (hell, all BioWare games) from the start. My brother and all my ME loving friends also share the same dissapointment and frustration of the endings.


I hate feeling the need to post here, but this is the first time I’ve ever felt I needed to share my opinion on this sort of topic and it seems I’m not the only one (that and you asked). If there is a chance this can be rectified or was part of a bigger plan (indoctrination theory anyone?:bandit:) then I would like to see it happen.  I don’t mean to imply some sense of self entitlement that as a ‘fan’ I know what’s best and demand it be so, nor would I declare I’m swearing off all BioWare games forever, but this is not the way to end what has been an amazing gaming trilogy.

Modifié par DCYNIGR8, 16 mars 2012 - 05:43 .


#2927
s8383783

s8383783
  • Members
  • 37 messages

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


Actually I didn't like the ending but i'm not going to sit here and say I'm more of a fan than some one else just because they did. A tad trivial amiirite? 

Modifié par s8383783, 16 mars 2012 - 05:42 .


#2928
Ex-Cerberus

Ex-Cerberus
  • Members
  • 49 messages
If you disregard common sense and can suspend disbelief to the point where virtually anything doesn't have to make sense, then sure, I can see how someone could be satisfied with the ending.

#2929
Diablos2525

Diablos2525
  • Members
  • 350 messages
Mordin singing Scientist Salarian before he died was touching. Liara's box to preserve the history of shepherd, so many excellent scenes until the horrible ending that is full of plotholes, and basically negates everything Paragon or even Renegade Shephard has been trying to accomplish since mass effect 1. Not to mention all "16 endings" are basically 1 ending with copy and pasted colors. I really would like to thank you guys for all your hard work but I'm going to have to believe either 1) Shepard is indoctrinated and you guys are Greedy Geniuses for creating a new ending and expanding the franchise possibly through dlc or 2) Your writers had a mega brainfart and should of asked the community for help or 3) EA rushed you before you finished the endings.

#2930
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
  • Guests

Omnike wrote...

You got upset about someone saying they "felt gutted", and that it was astronomically different. I think your death and getting attached to a video game are astronomically different. 


No one is comparing death and a video game.

We're talking about one's view of something being solely based on the ending.

#2931
zegota

zegota
  • Members
  • 40 messages

Himmelstor wrote...

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


Right.

Satisfied? THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE THE CORRECT OPINION!

Dissatisfied? Well, obviously that's the "right" way to think and Bioware needs to "fix" this "bug."

We're not saying we're right, necessarily.
We're saying we're dissatisfied, we have some arguments to back it up, and would like some resolution to the ending.


What "arguments?" There are no arguments needed to say you didn't like something. It's not a logical proof. You either liked it or you didn't.

But by that token, there's also no argument to "prove" that you're entitled to a different ending than the writer wrote. Dislike is a valid and time-honored approach to storytelling. We do not need a separate ending for each and every person just to make sure that no one is dissatisfied.

#2932
Himmelstor

Himmelstor
  • Members
  • 6 316 messages

s8383783 wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


Actually I didn't like the ending but i'm not going to sit here and say I'm more of a fan than some one else just because they did. A tad trivial amiirite? 

Yes. But I don't like the inverse, either.

#2933
Meruvian

Meruvian
  • Members
  • 88 messages
The ending debate was something I was reluctant to get into for a long time, partly because I’m not a very vocal part of this community. But since Bioware said they were listening, I want to offer my 2 cents worth.

Having been spoiled about the endings before the game was released, I thought it best to wait until I could play it myself before judging it. I didn’t want to Arthur Conan Doyle Bioware before I could see the endings in context with my own Shepards.

But that does bring up an important point: There is a significant difference between the narrative in literature or a movie on the one hand, and in a game (particularly in RPGs) on the other, namely the active participation in and influence on the narrative by the reader. This influence naturally has certain bounds, as it has to fit in the overall story that is being told.

And that’s a part of the problem, I think. To me it felt like playing through a movie with default/canon Shepard. Personally I had that feeling in other parts of the game as well. Like Shepard is walking through a script, and cannot decide for herself/himself the order in which (s)he goes through the main quest lines. These choices are made for Shepard, not by Shepard. But for the most part of the game I could rationalize it by thinking the circumstances in ME3 are different, and Shepard is forced to jump from one pressing matter to the other in a certain order. I can understand it, from a storytelling perspective as well. And although I would love to have the same freedom in ME3 as we had in ME1 and ME2, when we could decide to recruit Liara after her mother died, or bring Garrus into a plague infested zone, I understand why it was done in this way.

But the ending was just passively watching a scene to the extent that I felt a disconnection to the character I was playing. Which is a bad thing in an action-RPG. Regardless of what the end state of the galaxy would be, I felt disconnected from the character I was roleplaying.
This was not my Shepard, in fact it was none of my Shepards.

And the fact that this ending, in minor alterations, is waiting for my other Shepards, coupled with the more scripted approach to ME3, really affects the replayability of the game for me.


Other qualms I have with the game have already been described better by others, so I would like to refer to the often quoted post by bwFex and the following articles:

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
http://kotaku.com/58...as-so-terrible/
http://www.forbes.co...ible-consumers/

#2934
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


There is no correct opinions regarding ones enjoyment taking precedent over anothers. Some liked and some disliked. I consider my reasons as valid as anyone who has tried to convince me otherwise, they failed miserably each time. As do those who dislike feel theirs is valid. The issue is (imho) their wound or dislike is so new and brandished so much in order to prolong their anger and suffering that they have yet to calm their emotions, take a step back or deep breath and remember that those hundreds of hours they actually loved, regardless of if ME3 ended with Pacman gobbling up the Earth they still would come to realise the journey up to that point was not thrown away and it was not wasted, it was enjoyed and their just angry and annoyed right now for most cases.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 05:48 .


#2935
Omnike

Omnike
  • Members
  • 284 messages

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...

zegota wrote...

s8383783 wrote...


Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 


Exactly. I can guarantee I've played and read a lot -- A LOT -- more Mass Effect than the average person. And I loved the ending. So :-p


You were satisfied with an ending that had little to no explanation? An ending that, in some cases, didn't even make sense? Some die hard fan... :whistle:


It made perfect sense, and had plenty of foreshadowing. Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand things as well as he thinks he does?

But oh, definitely not! You must be the diehard fan, and anyone who disagrees with you is just an idiot casual player. Wonderful argument, that. Certainly makes it impossible to have a genuine difference of opinion on a story.


Well, you twist words like an idiot, I'll give you that. But no, it didn't make sense. How did Joker resurrect a burnt Garrus from in front of me and strand him in a jungle with him and Liara? I saw him dead. On the ground. And secondly, how did the catalyst take the shape of some random boy that Shepard tried to save? Did it know that boy? And no assuming, don't assume the Star Child can read minds. What happens to the other races stranded on Earth? Little to nothing explained, and some things that didn't make sense.

#2936
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
  • Guests

Vlta wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Vlta wrote...

If the story has a bad ending it ruins the whole thing. There were many good things in ME3 but knowing that no matter what you're always going to get those same three crap endings ruins not only the third game but the other two as well. Does this destroy my life. No. (dunno but some others) But it sure as hell ruins this series and any faith I had in this company.


As I said earlier...

You're going to die one day. None of what you've done will matter. Does that make all of this in-between so much dust in your hands, worthless and empty? or do you find enjoyment in the smaller picture?


I personally plan to try and have as big an impact on my country as possible, and make it last, but that is something completly diifferent.

By your logic because I am going to die at some point, hell if I know when, I should just accept everything as is just because.

I could go for gold on this and make a whole rant but you seem to be aiming to get this whole thing off topic


Don't twist my words.

My logic is, because you're going to die one day, you make the most of each day, you do as much good as you can. And when you're knocking on death's door, you'll know that even though the ending sucked (you're dead, after all), the part in between was good.

You don't say, "Oh no, dying sucks so that makes everything in life I did suck!"

#2937
PureLeadHead

PureLeadHead
  • Members
  • 42 messages
I'd like to say that I've been a big fan of the Mass Effect Universe from the very start.

Mass Effect 1 was revolutionary, Mass Effect 2 was beyond amazing. Mass Effect 3 was incredible....until the ending.

With such an creative universe, gameplay, characters, dialogue, it's understandable to want to climb the highest mountain possible at the finish. The combat on Earth leading up to the jump to the Citadel was challenging, exciting and probably exactly what we all envisioned when we started the game, a battle for humanity.

The reason none of the endings are acceptable to me is that the mission of Shepard was to save the galaxy and not have to make everyone a machine/organic hybrid to do it, or destroy all galactic civilization to do it or to become Big Brother.

The mission of Shepard was to destroy the Reapers, end the threat and get to see the masterpiece he helped assemble. The player put together a united galaxy, but thanks to the endings, we never get to see it. The player may or may not have fallen in love, thanks to the endings, they're totally separated for good. The player fought to save the planet Earth, thanks to the endings, Earth lost. Either because everyone's a synthetic hybrid, or totally cut off from the galaxy or watching the reapers fly by, under control.

I know it's cheesy and cliche, but the players of this game, the loyal fans who've been braving through Geth, Collectors, The Blue Suns, Eclipse, the Reapers, Cerberus, etc. from the start, deserved a way that Commander Shepard could stand in victory over the Reapers, maybe with some losses, maybe with a way like in Mass Effect 2 that allows you to bring them all through to the end, but an ending with a clear victory. The fanfare deserved to a hero, the chance to see your romantic choice beside you. To step aboard the Normandy again, and find your next adventure.

As I think about my dissatisfaction with the 3 endings that came with the game, I find myself recalling the end of Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End. (SPOILER ALERT If you have not seen that film, read no further, but it makes my point) In the final battle, Will Turner is killed and his heart goes to Davy Jones Locker, he becomes the Captain of the Flying Dutchman and his life ends, only able to come ashore for one day every 10 years. As someone who had watching the movies in theaters since the start, I was quite disappointed in this, as for me, one of the overarching storylines of the series was the quest for Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann. We had been along for the ride for so long for them to finally, be free and clear of their obstacles, then to be happy. We did not get that and the ending of that film suffered greatly for that decision, much the same way Mass Effect 3 suffers from the endings provided.

(SPOILERS OVER)

As a true fan of the series, as an avid gamer and as someone who believes that the Mass Effect trilogy should overshadow Star Wars, I request to BioWare and the creators of this game to give us new endings, proper endings, let us see who survives, let us see the aftermath, let us get to have the last word, not the unknown alien who gives us the 3 choices that sour this game for so many.

From the bottom of my heart, I would like to thank you for the countless hours of entertainment you have given me with this franchise, (Given? Okay, I did buy them) And to say, this wrong can be righted, so lets do it.

Thank you.

#2938
Himmelstor

Himmelstor
  • Members
  • 6 316 messages

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


Right.

Satisfied? THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE THE CORRECT OPINION!

Dissatisfied? Well, obviously that's the "right" way to think and Bioware needs to "fix" this "bug."

We're not saying we're right, necessarily.
We're saying we're dissatisfied, we have some arguments to back it up, and would like some resolution to the ending.


What "arguments?" There are no arguments needed to say you didn't like something. It's not a logical proof. You either liked it or you didn't.

But by that token, there's also no argument to "prove" that you're entitled to a different ending than the writer wrote. Dislike is a valid and time-honored approach to storytelling. We do not need a separate ending for each and every person just to make sure that no one is dissatisfied.

Why do you argue this? You are satisfied, correct?  What does it matter what we want? You got what you wanted. Do you fear losing the ending you were satisfied with?

And I suppose 'arguments' was the incorrect term. Reasons would be more accurate, such that we feel justified in calling for an incredibly rare occurence across all media. 

And we don't feel entitled, or at least I do not. I am asking, among the multitude, for some closure.

#2939
cinderburster

cinderburster
  • Members
  • 444 messages

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

zegota wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

s8383783 wrote...

Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 

Kind of cheap to assume that because you are satisfied with the ending that means you have the correct opinion.


Right.

Satisfied? THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE THE CORRECT OPINION!

Dissatisfied? Well, obviously that's the "right" way to think and Bioware needs to "fix" this "bug."

We're not saying we're right, necessarily.
We're saying we're dissatisfied, we have some arguments to back it up, and would like some resolution to the ending.


What "arguments?" There are no arguments needed to say you didn't like something. It's not a logical proof. You either liked it or you didn't.

But by that token, there's also no argument to "prove" that you're entitled to a different ending than the writer wrote. Dislike is a valid and time-honored approach to storytelling. We do not need a separate ending for each and every person just to make sure that no one is dissatisfied.


There are, however, plenty of arguments right here on the forums that point out the logical issues and plotholes that need filling in the end.

I can think of one from my playthrough right off the top of my head:  I took Garrus with me on the end mission.  When Shepard got up and walked to the beam, there was audio of people shouting about no one making it on that push.  You can see your party members dead.

Explain to me how him getting off of the Normandy at the end is not a gaping plothole, please?

#2940
MacabreMilkman

MacabreMilkman
  • Members
  • 50 messages
 Every moment of Mass Effect 3 exemplifies what I expected from the end of an epic trilogy. It fleshed out the consequenses of our actions, and wrapped up the stories of the character with whom we interacted. The end however...did not. I felt detached, as if nothing I did in the past games mattered. It felt...half-assed, If I may be so blunt.

I would prefer an ending in which a lot of variables are involved and some post-climax dialogue that commented on the fates of Shepard, my love interest, all the other characters, and the galaxy itself. I would like the ability to decide what happens next. Does Shepard build that house with Tali on Rannoch, living happily ever after? These are the things that would complete the narrative. It all felt so...abrubt. In Dragon Age Origins, we got to choose between dying, sacrificing a friend, or preforming a ritual to save our character. In Mass Effect 3, I would love to see this kind of scene, where the player can interact with important characters one last time, even if it's just for a sense of closure and nothing else.

I remember hearing about "wildly different endings" but the differences are minute, with the biggest difference being the colour of the blast. Please BioWare, don't pull any punches. The Dragon Age and Mass Effect series display the pinacle of writing in the gaming industry. I believe in what BioWare stands for. Only time will tell if it lives up to my expectations. 

#2941
Bradagan

Bradagan
  • Members
  • 37 messages
Mass Effect 3 is a fantastic game with writing and story that moved me to (manly) tears twice and had me laughing or touched in plenty of other ways. 99% of it is brilliantly and emotionally written, acted and directed. Honestly at these points I cried: 
  • At Mordin's sacrifice to cure the Krogan of the Genophage... the sequence afterwards where the atmosphere tower disperses the cure to the Krogan and a delighted Wrex realises that centuries of painful stillbirth are coming to and end... and starts talking about making babies.
  • Legion realising he's got to make his own sacrifice and there's no other way to give the rest of the Geth the same intelligence he has... Reconciling the Geth with the Quarians... Tali standing on Rannoch realising that her people can finally go home.
It still gets me, y'know? ;) *sob* 

So many bits of the game were brilliant:
  • Going inside the Geth server and seeing their memories of the beginning of their war with the Quarians...
  • Liara putting together her time capsule for future generations to find a way to fight the reapers...
  • Seeing Ashley beaten to a pulp by Eva then slowly recuperating and recovering her confidence...
  • Tali getting drunk. 
But that ending though... Ugh! It just seems to cheapen everything you've spent the last 3 games doing. So many moments during the rest of the game had moved me... all the ending did was bore and annoy me. It felt tacked on, disconnected from your actions of the previous 3 games. I wasn't invested, interested, or moved in the slightest. 

I tried reloading the final mission and playing through every choice. Making it 20 minutes long, making every line of dialog unskippable, making it unsaveable and making Shepard *limp* the whole time was a dirty trick though. 

ALL IT AMOUNTED TO WERE DIFFERENT COLOURED EXPLOSIONS!! HOW IS THAT ANY KIND OF CHOICE!?
  • What did Galactic readiness ultimately count for?
  • How do any of the ending choices give any sense of payoff, closure or achievement when they all play out the exact same way but with colour-swapped explosions / glowy eyes on Joker at the end?
And in unrelated grumbles: 
  • Why do we not see Tali's face when she takes her mask off and breathe's the air of her homeworld? 
Just... just ugh. 

Great game Bioware. I loved the characters, the writing, the whole journey... But your ending sucked.  

#2942
Shinobi2u

Shinobi2u
  • Members
  • 22 messages

Battlefrag91 wrote...

"I AM GARRUS VAKARIAN AND THIS IS NOW MY FAVORITE SPOT ON THE CITADEL!"


I loved that line so much, especially with how he made fun of Shep for being a spokesperson in ME2.

Completely redoing the ending doesn't seem like an option. The best I could see is either:
A) Expanding on the ending and giving better closure. Still won't make everyone happy who disliked the lack of choice.
B) Go the Indoctrination route and make whatever 'real' ending they want. Who knows how that would be received.

or they could just go C) too bad, it is what it is

Best part about the ending? The credits. I thoroughly enjoyed the Suicide Mission song in ME2, but it was no Faunts. Was so happy to hear them back again.

#2943
Atomsk Rex Pirata

Atomsk Rex Pirata
  • Members
  • 62 messages

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.


This. A million times this.

#2944
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Vlta wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Vlta wrote...

If the story has a bad ending it ruins the whole thing. There were many good things in ME3 but knowing that no matter what you're always going to get those same three crap endings ruins not only the third game but the other two as well. Does this destroy my life. No. (dunno but some others) But it sure as hell ruins this series and any faith I had in this company.


As I said earlier...

You're going to die one day. None of what you've done will matter. Does that make all of this in-between so much dust in your hands, worthless and empty? or do you find enjoyment in the smaller picture?


I personally plan to try and have as big an impact on my country as possible, and make it last, but that is something completly diifferent.

By your logic because I am going to die at some point, hell if I know when, I should just accept everything as is just because.

I could go for gold on this and make a whole rant but you seem to be aiming to get this whole thing off topic


Don't twist my words.

My logic is, because you're going to die one day, you make the most of each day, you do as much good as you can. And when you're knocking on death's door, you'll know that even though the ending sucked (you're dead, after all), the part in between was good.

You don't say, "Oh no, dying sucks so that makes everything in life I did suck!"


Sorry if it offends anyone but I agree with this and I also see it this way. I personally think people need time to cool down and thing reflect to notice that they did not waste or ruin all that came before as far as all the time they enjoyed previous titles and up until the point that made them so angry.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 05:53 .


#2945
jkflipflopDAO

jkflipflopDAO
  • Members
  • 1 543 messages

zegota wrote...

Omnike wrote...

zegota wrote...

s8383783 wrote...


Kind of cheap to assume that just because some one is satisfied with the ending they aren't a diehard fan imo. 


Exactly. I can guarantee I've played and read a lot -- A LOT -- more Mass Effect than the average person. And I loved the ending. So :-p


You were satisfied with an ending that had little to no explanation? An ending that, in some cases, didn't even make sense? Some die hard fan... :whistle:


It made perfect sense, and had plenty of foreshadowing. Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand things as well as he thinks he does?

But oh, definitely not! You must be the diehard fan, and anyone who disagrees with you is just an idiot casual player. Wonderful argument, that. Certainly makes it impossible to have a genuine difference of opinion on a story.


Then please, why don't you dismount from that high-horse of yours and explain it to us peons?

Why is my entire crew on the Normandy when they were with me on Earth 5 minutes ago? How did Joker walk away from a FTL ship-to-planet collision? If the relay exploding tore the Normandy to pieces, why didn't it hurt anything on Earth? Who created the StarChild? 

#2946
Lumenadducere

Lumenadducere
  • Members
  • 115 messages
So, on topic...

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but Liara's time capsule project really blew me away. It was a great reminder of just how bleak this game is. I think a lot of us are used to video game stories in the sense that we play the protagonist, and the protagonist will win - maybe through sacrifice, but the Big Bad is always beaten one way or another.

Given the story, though, the chances of success are highly unlikely. The cycle has been going on for a very, very long time, and so much of the dialog from both random NPCs and from teammates and crew members reflects this. ME3 is a dark game, but not in the ludicrous grimdark way that so many other games try to go for. It's dark simply due to its situation, and the dialog is actually written really well. It fits into the established world and reflects what seem like what would be genuine reactions to those events.

The time capsule encompasses that beautifully. It's a stark and frankly sad reminder that things likely aren't going to work out. That the galaxy's best contribution to stopping the Reapers may just be providing a warning to whoever comes along the next cycle. That sometimes all you can really take are the little moments with close friends, and when you're faced with a horrible fate and insurmountable odds, those moments become all the more important. The camaraderie and the brief hope displayed in that scene - despite its reality check - was wonderful and is one of my favorite moments in gaming.

Other memorable moments are both Garrus and Liara's goodbye conversations (they really seem to have gotten the best companion dialog, with Tali being 3rd. The Virmire Survivor seems to get the short end of the stick, here, with Ashley perhaps being the worst off. Disappointed by that) - a wonderful and fitting goodbye that seemed to fit their characters well.

And of course, Mordin's sacrifice. Even on my Renegade Shepard I wasn't able to take the interrupt, and I'm glad I didn't. His "someone else might have gotten it wrong" line took on a slightly different meaning that tied in well with the genophage discussions in ME2.

Honestly, the game is full of great moments like that, and I truly think it's some of BioWare's finest work yet. The music is phenomenal as well, and ties in amazingly well with said moments. Yes, the endings are all sorts of bad for several reasons, but until that point? Phenomenal job. All of that talk about "emotionally engaging/compelling experiences" and you finally managed to get a few lumps in my throat - something that had yet to happen in my gaming experience. Granted, some of it was predictable and a lot of it relied on plot contrivances that logically didn't make a lot of sense (let's just stand here and watch Thane fight), but even as I was going "Wait, really? You've got to be kidding" I was enjoying the ride. The good outweighs the bad by a large margin, and in the end I guess I can't ask for much more than that.

...although expanding the ending would be nice. ;-p

#2947
Himmelstor

Himmelstor
  • Members
  • 6 316 messages

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Don't twist my words.

My logic is, because you're going to die one day, you make the most of each day, you do as much good as you can. And when you're knocking on death's door, you'll know that even though the ending sucked (you're dead, after all), the part in between was good.

You don't say, "Oh no, dying sucks so that makes everything in life I did suck!"

Don't twist our meanings.  We aren't necessarily talking about death or that being the end. We are saying the ending of a well thought out piece of fiction deserves more than this.
Agree or disagree. Hell's Bells, be neutral.
Do not interpret us so shallow and yourself so vast.

#2948
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
  • Guests

Bradagan wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is a fantastic game with writing and story that moved me to (manly) tears twice and had me laughing or touched in plenty of other ways. 99% of it is brilliantly and emotionally written, acted and directed. Honestly at these points I cried: 

  • At Mordin's sacrifice to cure the Krogan of the Genophage... the sequence afterwards where the atmosphere tower disperses the cure to the Krogan and a delighted Wrex realises that centuries of painful stillbirth are coming to and end... and starts talking about making babies.
  • Legion realising he's got to make his own sacrifice and there's no other way to give the rest of the Geth the same intelligence he has... Reconciling the Geth with the Quarians... Tali standing on Rannoch realising that her people can finally go home.
It still gets me, y'know? ;) *sob* 

So many bits of the game were brilliant:
  • Going inside the Geth server and seeing their memories of the beginning of their war with the Quarians...
  • Liara putting together her time capsule for future generations to find a way to fight the reapers...
  • Seeing Ashley beaten to a pulp by Eva then slowly recuperating and recovering her confidence...
  • Tali getting drunk. 
But that ending though... Ugh! It just seems to cheapen everything you've spent the last 3 games doing. So many moments during the rest of the game had moved me... all the ending did was bore and annoy me. It felt tacked on, disconnected from your actions of the previous 3 games. I wasn't invested, interested, or moved in the slightest. 

I tried reloading the final mission and playing through every choice. Making it 20 minutes long, making every line of dialog unskippable, making it unsaveable and making Shepard *limp* the whole time was a dirty trick though. 

ALL IT AMOUNTED TO WERE DIFFERENT COLOURED EXPLOSIONS!! HOW IS THAT ANY KIND OF CHOICE!?
  • What did Galactic readiness ultimately count for?
  • How do any of the ending choices give any sense of payoff, closure or achievement when they all play out the exact same way but with colour-swapped explosions / glowy eyes on Joker at the end?
And in unrelated grumbles: 
  • Why do we not see Tali's face when she takes her mask off and breathe's the air of her homeworld? 
Just... just ugh. 

Great game Bioware. I loved the characters, the writing, the whole journey... But your ending sucked.  


Someone gets it. THIS is what I'm trying to say. Don't say everything sucked just because the ending did.

#2949
Fishy

Fishy
  • Members
  • 5 819 messages

Meruvian wrote...

But that does bring up an important point: There is a significant difference between the narrative in literature or a movie on the one hand, and in a game (particularly in RPGs) on the other, namely the active participation in and influence on the narrative by the reader. This influence naturally has certain bounds, as it has to fit in the overall story that is being told.


Of course . Movie is 100 % environement controlled. They take the right angle , the right lightning and the right everything. Actually video game are closer to real life than movie. Movie make you a spectator watching what the director want you too see. Nothing more , nothing less.

It's exactly why a video game don't have and never will have the same level of narration. For the same reason a lot of fol kenjoy more the book . It's more descriptive rather than controlled. A different way for telling a story..

Video  game offer other thing . They're more open than movie and elss descriptive than book. A great medium imo.

#2950
Dragoonlordz

Dragoonlordz
  • Members
  • 9 920 messages

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Then please, why don't you dismount from that high-horse of yours and explain it to us peons?

Why is my entire crew on the Normandy when they were with me on Earth 5 minutes ago? How did Joker walk away from a FTL ship-to-planet collision? If the relay exploding tore the Normandy to pieces, why didn't it hurt anything on Earth? Who created the StarChild? 


I still do not get why people keep implying everyone was on the Normandy... I completed it and I did not see everyone there at all, not even close.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 mars 2012 - 05:55 .